SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Current crop of subsims & naval games > COLD WATERS
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-17, 04:19 PM   #1
shipkiller1
Electrician's Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 136
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default V1.07D Update Thoughts

The new interface is nicely done. The HMI is well thought out. A lot of work went into the changes.
I have played a couple of user built scenarios (no campaigns) and jotted down my observations.
Here are my thoughts on more updates down the road if you feel they are worth the time and effort.

History:
The 'order history' on the right side is nice, especially the ability to hide it to free up screen space.
You may want to change the colors for some of the reports. Anything that you really need to know right now, eg: loss of the wire, torpedo in the water, ship is cavitating, etc. should be in RED to get your attention. These reports may get lost or not heard when attempting to do multiple things at once and you concentration is on something else.

Own ship Functions:
I like the OS functions on the left. Big enough to be very user friendly but small enough not to distract.
The two biggest things that I like are setting a depth and forgetting about it. I do not have to monitor it. Just let the Diving Officer of the Watch (DOOW or Dive) do his job. The other is the dynamic CQO function on the main display, just like Torpedo changes. Set it and go. I do not feel need for any type of ‘waypoint’ navigation being added later on. Would not be used in real life anyway.

Periscope Depth:
Even though I very rarely ever go to Periscope Depth (PD), (I do not need to see the target to kill it) the addition of the ESM signal strength meter is very welcome.
I also like the ‘Emergency Deep’ button. Very useful. Emergency Deep (ED) is a code worded action where specific actions are performed without the Officer of the Deck (OD) or Approach Officer ordering each action. One thing that should be automatic is the lowering of all Masts and Antenna’s. In my first test I left the scope up while doing an ED and of course it was damaged… The lowering of all masts and antenna’s is part of the code worded actions.
Along with that, I assumed that the ship would dive to the ‘Escape Depth’ detailed in the specific units configuration file (600ft for the 688). The boat just kept going down until I stopped it at 1100ft so I would not kill myself and continue testing.
If you really want to be realistic, then the boat should go to 150ft unless ordered deeper or you could have a settable evasion depth setting in the UI. This last one may be too much trouble to implement.

EMBT Blow:
I move my EMBT blow action to ‘Shift B’. The default button would get activated sometimes in the hurry to do something else. It sucked trying to maintain depth while running fast with a 10 degree down to keep some semblance of depth control with the bad guys out there.
You changed the EMBT blow after actions of the AI so after 2m 25secs (yes, I timed it, twice) you can regain depth control or dive. This is a great change.
In all actuality, if you were on the surface, you do not need to recharge your EMBT Blow banks to dive, and if submerged you would just vent the ballast tanks…

Target AI:
The AI seems more aggressive (this I like) after they evade. Instead of running for 10 or more minutes, as soon as they hear the explosion or determine it is safe, they slow and turn towards the last bearing of incoming fire. I would still like to see more ‘blind’ counter fire shots down the bearing of the incoming torpedoes. This is more realistic, for a number of reasons.
Evading submarines also use more countermeasures than before. This is definitely better.

MK-48 AI:
The weapon tab with the weapon control buttons is a nice add on.
In the individual weapon UI, I would like to see the tubes reordered. Tubes one and three should be on the starboard side and tubes two and four on the port. I would also like to see a ‘Command Shutdown’ button, to shut down the selected unit if you need to, provided the wire is still good. Not sure if it should be on the tube bar or in the weapon tab.
MK-48’s do not self-destruct at end of run.
Additionally, with the way the warhead arming is performed, the MK-48 would never detonate if it struck the bottom.
One thing I noticed right way, before 1.07d, each and every target countermeasure would break active homing. Now, depending on the target to torpedo range (and maybe aspect), the MK-48 performs more realistically and it may just ignore the countermeasure and run to detonation…

Although I have only played the 1.07d update for about two hours, I really like the updates.
It make for better game play for the ‘point and shoot’ people and you can still use the keyboard for us old gamers.
shipkiller1 is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-17, 04:58 PM   #2
Berserker
Aggressive skipper
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 328
Downloads: 2166
Uploads: 0
Default

How about a eastern bloc side where you play against nato?? If you are using a soviet sub you should be hunting nato forces...As it is now you can use eastern block and nato subs against the eastern block only..
Anyone up to doing this???..Looking forward to nato task forces running around the North Atlantic...
__________________
Shoot,Move,Communicate..Kill,Destroy,Eradicate...
Berserker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-17, 05:03 AM   #3
The Bandit
Sonar Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 395
Downloads: 39
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
How about a eastern bloc side where you play against nato?? If you are using a soviet sub you should be hunting nato forces...As it is now you can use eastern block and nato subs against the eastern block only..
Anyone up to doing this???..Looking forward to nato task forces running around the North Atlantic...
That is because this is modded content. Also I think depending on which campaign you use, they have one which uses modified Soviet surface vessels as stand-ins for things like the Knox, Perry and Spruance classes.

Either way its pretty safe to assume whenever the future Soviet campaign emerges, I would be quite surprised to find out that it was a renegade only type thing.
__________________
The Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-17, 07:07 AM   #4
GravityWave
Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 58
Downloads: 25
Uploads: 0
Default

I second the comment about re-ordering the torpedo tube numbering. The sooner the better (?) to avoid more pain later. It does get a bit tricky for boats with many tubes (Sierra). I always think of starboard as the odd side.
GravityWave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 01:37 AM   #5
basti107
Mate
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 55
Downloads: 68
Uploads: 0
Default

I like honestly how the developers make the effort to make this unique jewel according to the wishes of the community. Thanks for that.
basti107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 06:55 AM   #6
GDFTigerTank
Machinist's Mate
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
Downloads: 44
Uploads: 0
Default

Very much like the vast majority of interface and voice changes. GG KILLERFISH!

I also third the comments above - please do renumber the torpedo tubes to avoid future confusion.

Other than than, I do have a new interface request as more subs are being modded in now with deeper dive limitations beyond what the game originally had.
Can we get either a dedicated button that when we push does an active check that tells us what the water depth is. OR can we get the depth GUI changed to be logrithmic OR have it always shown via text what the depth is (for depths greater than 1000 ft which starts to exceed the current limits of the interface)

Last edited by GDFTigerTank; 09-02-17 at 07:08 AM.
GDFTigerTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 02:23 PM   #7
-Pv-
The Old Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,434
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0
Default

I agree not having a clear indication of the sea bottom depth is a problem.
Perhaps not limiting the Conditions Tab to 1000 ft? Making that screen scrollable or rescalable? Although the tactical map has some color gradation on it, too hard to interpret. Other sims have done this with a mouse over on the map.

I can see why a depth echo return would be hazardous when the game is designed to place you within 12 miles of the enemy, but accurate and detailed depth maps is key to survival of any vessel at sea.
-Pv-
-Pv- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 02:30 PM   #8
Delgard
Skipper
 
Delgard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ & DC
Posts: 487
Downloads: 48
Uploads: 0
Default

The Navigator should be handling that. 200m from the bottom, or the surface. Then at 100m and then 50m. The actually surfacing or bottoming should also be called out.

Still just a part of the NAV Team.
Delgard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 02:47 PM   #9
-Pv-
The Old Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,434
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0
Default

There are call-outs, but the careful planning of your tactical options and intimate knowledge of the available playing field is part of the planning of how you're going to execute attack and escape, not something you do after the keel is going shallow. These subs can dive really deep by default (up to ~700 ft beyond the "Test" depth listed in the config files) so knowing if you have that depth available to you without depending on seeing the floor suddenly appear in the 3D view seems a practical and helpful thing to add.
A few examples:
Skipjack TestDepth=700 (+ 700)
Sturgeon TestDepth=1320 "
Los Angeles TestDepth=950 "
Narwhal TestDepth=1320 "
Permit TestDepth=1320 "

oscar TestDepth=2000 (+ 700)
sierra TestDepth=1970 "
alfa TestDepth=2000 "
-Pv-

Last edited by -Pv-; 09-02-17 at 02:58 PM.
-Pv- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 03:51 PM   #10
shipkiller1
Electrician's Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 136
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default

One thing I noticed last night.

When the AI starts the scenario and places your depth at anything other than 300ft, when you enable the depth change icon, it shows your depth at 300ft. In other words, it always displays 300ft starting out, not the actual depth.

Lets say you start out at 600ft (my favorite for a surface attack), you then have to set the depth to 600ft vice the displayed depth of 300ft. The boat does not change depth but DOW then reports changing depth to 600ft, then reports at 600ft.

Just an oddity...
shipkiller1 is online   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 04:05 PM   #11
-Pv-
The Old Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,434
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0
Default

You are right. The dive controls toolbar always initializes at 300 ft regardless of your actual depth. When this bothers me is when I want to make a small change to my initial depth at the start of the scenario. If I'm not at 300 ft, there is a bunch of juggling to get to the small depth change I wanted. This is an annoyance particularly at the start when I'm trying to quickly assess the tactical environment and what I need to do to get into position and identify threats.
-Pv-
-Pv- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 05:14 PM   #12
Delgard
Skipper
 
Delgard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ & DC
Posts: 487
Downloads: 48
Uploads: 0
Default

Bah, has no use for the Skipper. Someone else may look at it. When I arrive in the Control Room, OOD briefs me.

Shortly, I imagine, I will be handed a tablet with info that is also tied into the boat's server.

I can then manage it all in the head.
Delgard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-17, 09:24 PM   #13
Killerfish Games
Cold Waters Developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 274
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

What a great and constructive conversation! Thanks folks.

Next update will contain the following:
- Emergency deep now lowers all undamaged masts
- Silent running now sets speed correctly if individual knot setting is being used
- All toolbars can now be forced on and individually offset to any position on screen
- Forcing toolbars on hides tabs for them and disables opening/closing of them

We'll likely also add the start depth on the depth meter to be the player sub depth at start of combat as this makes perfect sense.

Emergency Deep: we initially had this level out your sub at a certain depth, but things became confusing based on your current depth and depth under keel at the time it was used. It would do different things based on these factors, therefore to be consistent, we simplified it to put your sub into the steepest dive at flank speed.

As per the manual:
Emergency Deep: Using <KEY:Emergency Deep> orders flank speed ahead and full down planes. Useful if you get ambushed close to the surface. Do remember to pull out of the dive or suffer the interesting effects of depth implosion.

Torpedo tubes:
These are set up to be odds on port and evens on starboard so that the columns of tubes corresponds to the left and right of your sub. Are they flipped IRL?
__________________
Visit Killerfish Games for more info and ongoing discussion.
Killerfish Games is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-17, 05:00 AM   #14
uss_sea_tiger
Watch
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
Downloads: 554
Uploads: 0
Default

Dear Killerfish games.
I didn't want be buy your game. I watched Youtube plays and the game just seemed to be "stay undetected (looked easy enough), fire homing torpedo (looked really easy), kill enemy & win".
Looked simplistic. Looked easy. Looked boring.
But I love sub games, so I bought the game.
Turns out, looks can be deceiving.
I'm awful but the game's great. Really great. Really really great.
Thank YOU killerfish for making the game in the first place and continuing to support the game with updates. This particular one is AWESOME.
This is how a company builds rapport and goodwill with it's customers.
Funny how some games companies haven't worked that one out.
Respect to you.
In the future, will you be adding new ship & sub models to the game?

uss_sea_tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-17, 08:06 AM   #15
GDFTigerTank
Machinist's Mate
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
Downloads: 44
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish Games View Post
What a great and constructive conversation! Thanks folks.

Torpedo tubes:
These are set up to be odds on port and evens on starboard so that the columns of tubes corresponds to the left and right of your sub. Are they flipped IRL?
You have it backwards sir. Here's an example.

Example: The way you currently number your tubes in the game:
1 - 5 | 1 - 4
2 - 6 | 2 - 5
3 - 7 | 3 - 6
4 - 8

1 - 3
2 - 4

^ The problem with this is that the point of the tube numbers flipping in the columns depending on the total number of tubes on the sub.

Example: The way we'd like you to renumber the tubes to match IRL (please!):

1 - 2
3 - 4
5 - 6
7 - 8

^ You see, this way no matter how many tubes the sub has, the numbering system stays the SAME across all the subs and evens are right, odds are left.

Also, any chance we can get depth readings below 1000 ft?
GDFTigerTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.