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Old 09-16-17, 09:43 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve View Post

1900 German ace Hans von Adam, flying an Albatros D.V, shoots down a Sopwith Camel B6250 for victory number 15. 2nd Lt J.B.H. Wyman is wounded and taken prisoner.
THAT's Hans Ritter von Adam![QUOTE] the Military Order of Max Joseph (Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden), was posthumously bestowed on him, with effect from 28 July 1917. (18 days earlier!) On that date, as deputy Staffelführer of Jasta 6, while his Staffelführer chased one bomber, Adam had attacked and broken up the rest of a formation of enemy bombers, and continued the pursuit despite damage to his own aircraft, until his squadron had destroyed the enemy formation. For a commoner, award of the Military Order of Max Joseph carried with it a patent of non-hereditary nobility signified by the title "Ritter von", and Hans Adam posthumously became Hans Ritter von Adam.[QUOTE] Therefore all victories attributed after 7/28/1917 are to Hans Ritter von Adam!
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Old 09-16-17, 09:56 AM   #182
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So should I do that for every pilot I list? Should I also include their ranks? Rittmeister Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen? Actually I've been leaving off the extra stuff intentionally, as there are a lot of them with titles that do nothing but take up space.
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Old 09-16-17, 11:57 AM   #183
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WHAAAA....! depriving a man of his justly earned battle honors...and titles for taking up your space! Outrageous!
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Old 09-16-17, 02:15 PM   #184
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Okay, you win. I'm still not going to add every title to every pilot. I am hand-typing every single one of these, you know.
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Old 09-16-17, 02:57 PM   #185
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Okay, you win. I'm still not going to add every title to every pilot. I am hand-typing every single one of these, you know.
A to your intrepid character as a former military man in your own right!

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Old 09-24-17, 01:07 AM   #186
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A commentary on the death of Werner Voss
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2570

The Werner Voss Controversy:
Five months before this, Manfred von Richthofen was slated to go on leave. He had 48 kills at the time, and wanted to attain the half-century mark before he left. He got four in one day, and went home with 52 victories. Now Voss is scheduled to go on leave, and earlier in the day he had scored number 48. He was also rapidly catching von Richthofen, who had only scored four kills since July, while Voss had gotten fourteen. He was only twelve behind.

After his morning patrol Voss was visited by his father and two brothers, who were there to take him home for his leave. Rather than pack his bags and go with them then, he decided to fly one more patrol, maybe getting number 50 before departing. Voss took off alone. He came across a patrol of SE.5as from No 60 Squadron and immediately attacked the two planes in the rear. These were Cpt H.A. Hamersley and Robert Chislaw-Roberts. Voss opened fire on Chidlaw-Roberts and Hamersley turned to help his partner. Voss turned to face him and in the head-on pass Hamersley's plane was badly shot up.

At this point 'B' and 'C' Flights of No 56 Squadron arrived on the scene. As Chidlaw-Roberts and Hamersley made their escape Voss was joined by a red-nosed Albatros. Under the Guns of the German Aces says it is believed that this was Carl Menckhoff of Jasta 3, at that time having 11 kills under his belt.

The British pilots were:
James McCudden, SE.5a B4863, 12 victories.
Arthur Rhys Davids, B545, 18.
Leonard Barlow, B511, 13.
Keith Muspratt, A8944, 6
Maxwell Coote, aircraft and victories unlisted.
Verschoyle Cronyn, A4563, victories unlisted.
Geoffrey Bowman, B2, 16.
Reginald Hoidge, B506, 21.
Richard Mayberry, B1, 13.
Stanley Gardiner, aircraft and victories unlisted.
Edward Taylor, aircraft and victories unlisted.

The Albatros was soon hit and abandoned the fight. Mayberry and Cronyn also departed. The final fight was Voss against seven SE.5a pilots, most if not all of them aces. Some of them reported that on at least two occassions Voss was above the whole group and could have climbed away, as the F.I/Dr.I had the best climb of any plane in the war. Why he did not do so is part of the controversy. It's possible that Voss had lost speed to get above them and believed they could catch him. It's possible that No 60 squadron was still in the area and were just watching the fight, but blocked Voss' way out. It's also possible that he desperately wanted thost 50 kills. Still another possiblility is that he was doing so well against them that he began to think he couldn't be touched.

The bottom line is that Voss stayed with the fight until Arthur Rhys Davids got one good shot lined up, and Werner Voss died.

Another question is why only Rhys Davids was awarded the victory. Yes, he was the one who fired the fatal shots, but it was customary in British practice to award every pilot involved.

The British pilots who brought Voss down had high praise for him:
"I have only admiration for that German pilot, who single handed, fought seven of us for ten minutes..."
-James McCudden

"If I could only have brought him down alive..."
-Arthur Rhys Davids.
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Old 10-07-17, 03:21 PM   #187
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Sorry for interrupting your fantastic job.

Every time I read Steves posting about the war in the air I'm always thinking

Have anyone made a top 20 of each countries best pilot/most kills ?
(guessing Red Baron would be number 1 in Germany, but who's number 2 and 3.....)

Have anyone made a list of how many plane have been shot down in all and for each country ?(taking part in the air war)

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Old 10-07-17, 03:57 PM   #188
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Yes, many lists have been made of the top scoring aces from each country. Rather than copy the lists myself I'll refer you to this list:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/by_nation.php
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Old 10-07-17, 05:15 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve View Post
Yes, many lists have been made of the top scoring aces from each country. Rather than copy the lists myself I'll refer you to this list:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/by_nation.php
First of all

I was before I posted my comment in our 100 years ago today, wondering where I could post my question, ´cause I didn't want to start a new thread. I was never thinking about this thread.

Second

Thank you for the link.

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Old 01-27-18, 06:05 PM   #190
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Throughout the weeks I have seen a trailer for a new documentaries who start tomorrow Sunday(28th of January).

It is Aces War and its about the first planes in World War One and the first Aces of that war.

Description first Episode

Winter 1914. Marshal Joffre Annonce that Airplane no longer should be used to recon. From now on they should be used to destroy enemies planes.

I also remember it, every time I read one of Steves posting in 100 years ago today.

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Old 01-27-18, 08:09 PM   #191
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I'll be interested to see what they say about Joffre in the actual show, since reconnaissance was always the primary use of the airplane during the Great War. One of the early complaints by German pilots was that the Fokker Eindecker was assigned to protect their own two-seaters from the enemy when they would rather be out hunting.
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Old 01-28-18, 04:27 PM   #192
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Now I understood why they called the program Aces War.

It was not so much about the development in the use of aircraft in the great war but mostly about the first aces.

Throughout the program they had some small parts of the war and the roll the airplane had.

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Old 04-21-18, 11:46 PM   #193
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Default The Red Baron Controversy

The Red Baron Controversy:

A mixed combat took place over France on April 21, 1918. On the British side No 209 Squadron was flying an offensive patrol in three sections:

A Flight:
Captain Arthur Roy Brown, Sopwith Camel B7270.
Lt William John MacKenzie, B7245.
Lt Wilfred Reid May, D3326.
Lt Lomas, D3340.
Lt Francis John Williamson Mellersh, D3329. Mellersh was forced to return home with engine troubles, but was back in the air in another Camel and rejoined A Flight at 1010.

B Flight:
Capt Oliver Colin LeBoutillier, D3338.
Lt Robert Mordaunt Foster, B3858.
Lt M.A. Harker, B7272.
Lt Merril Samuel Taylor, B7200.
Lt C.G. Brock, D3328.

C Flight:
Capt Oliver William Redgate.
Lt A.W. Aird.
L E.B. Drake.
Lt C.G. Edwards.
Lt J.H. Siddall.

On the German side were components of Jasta 5, a mixed group of Albatros D.Vs and Fokker Dr.1s:

Kette 1:
Wolfram von Richthoven.
Oberltn Walther Karjos.
Vfw Edgar Scholz.
Ltn Hans-Joachim Wolff.
With them was Manfred von Richthofen in his Fokker Triplane.

Kette 2:
Ltn Hans Weiss.
Ltn Richard Wenzl.

There were also Dr.Is from Jasta 11. From the description given in Under The Guns of the Red Baron it is difficult to tell the exact number of German planes and the names of all the pilots.

Complicating matters was the wind. There is usually a prevailing wind blowing from west to east, dragging any fight into German territory. This day the wind was blowing from east to west, carrying the fight to the Allied side.

Wilfred May was a novice pilot, and had orders to remain on the outskirts of any fight. He was doing just that when a triplane came close enough for him to jump into the fray. This is thought to be Wolfram von Richthofen. He was in turn jumped by another triplane and tried to run for his lines. Seeing this happen, Brown dove after them in an attempt to save his rookie pilot. May was hugging the ground and von Richthofen was right with him. Brown was diving down behind. Brown was firing at the triplane when it suddenly dropped to the ground and crash-landed.

The victory was claimed by Brown, who didn't know who his opponent was until he landed. It was also claimed by ground troops in general and by an Australian machine-gun company, who gave the credit to gunner Cedric Popkin. The controversy arises mainly from the fact that once the identity of the victim was established the plane was stripped of almost all its fabric by souvenir hunters. There is no way to establish how many times the plane itself was hit, or from what direction. Von Richthofen was hit once. Much has been made of the angle of the wound, saying it "must have" come from the ground. Two complications arise here. First is that no one knows for sure the attitude of von Richthofen's Dr.I at the fatal moment, which means the bullet could have come from almost any direction. Second is that while the body was examined twice, it wasn't opened up with the intent of establishing entry and exit wounds. RAF pilots of course insist that they witnessed the final shots and had no doubt it was Brown's kill. On the other hand the Australian gunners were right there and insist it belongs to Popkin. The actual truth will never be known.

Quote:
"It's a terrible thing when you think of it that they should examine a body just to see who should have the credit of killing hin."
- Arthur Roy Brown

"The sight of von Richthofen as I walked closer gave me a start. His face, particularly peaceful, had an expression of gentleness and goodness, of refinement. Suddenly I felt miserable, desperately unhappy, as if I had committed an injustice. with a feeling of shame, a kind of anger against myself moved in my thoughts, that I had forced him to lay there...I cursed the war. If I could, I would gladly have brought him back to life."
- Arthur Roy Brown
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Old 05-18-18, 12:29 PM   #194
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A question popped up when I read about the war in the air war May 17th 1918.

In on of these lines

"1045 German pilot Marat Schumm, with Jasta 52, shoots down SE.5a C6404 for victory number 1. Lt L.M. Nixon is killed"

I noticed the last name Nixon

Nixon is not a common last name in the States or is it.

That's why I wonder

Could he be somehow related to your former or coming(seen from 1918)
President Richard Nixon ?

Markus
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Old 05-18-18, 02:36 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc View Post
A question popped up when I read about the war in the air war May 17th 1918.

In on of these lines

"1045 German pilot Marat Schumm, with Jasta 52, shoots down SE.5a C6404 for victory number 1. Lt L.M. Nixon is killed"

I noticed the last name Nixon

Nixon is not a common last name in the States or is it.

That's why I wonder

Could he be somehow related to your former or coming(seen from 1918)
President Richard Nixon ?

Markus

Setting Steve up for a bully pulpit on July 14th are you?
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