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Old 04-26-2011, 03:45 AM   #1
murkz
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Default Is T34 vs Tiger abandonware?

With the demise of Lighthouse Interactive, is TvT now classed as abandonware? I have been looking to see who now holds the right to the game but have not been able to find who is the new owner, if anyone.

Does anyone here know who now owns TvT?

If no one owns TvT is it then abandonware?

I have also asked on Simhq, to reach as large a tankers audience as possible.

Jeff
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:54 AM   #2
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Default Copyrights

Murkz soince Lighthouse went bankrupt I would assume they left debts behind and thus either a bank or some other financial entity would have seized the remaining assets to be used to repay part of the debts the company owed.One problem is that Lighthouse was based in Amsterdam but was partly Canadian-owned.thus would it be aEuropean Union bankrupcy or a Canadian one. Best would be to Google Lighthouse to find out who took over or inherited the company´s assets and may own the rights to all Lighthouse´s assets including copyrights to their games and products.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:07 AM   #3
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I agree with you.

Various assets of Lighthouse where sold off but TvT seems to have been left unsold.

Hence my question as I have drawn a blank
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #4
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Default Sold Online?

Well I am not surprised. The game does not have a good reputation and press.SF whose´s distribution rights in the West also belonged to Lighthouse seem to have found new outlets with Amazon and Gamersgate selling it online.I wonder if TvsT is not sold online as well????
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:27 AM   #5
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Default Tvst

I checked online and could only find Gamersgate offering it but checking their webpage it says product not found which means they gave it up.Otherwise lots of torrent or free file sharing offering free downloads of Tv sT.I think this game no longer exists for commercial purposes and is just forgotten.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:57 AM   #6
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I just made this thread a sticky, this is a great subject. As for me I have not
abandoned TvT. Although I have found out that the story around this game
is really messy and a bit complex. Allot of, if not all those involved in the
development of TvT feel they have been screwed. Judging from what I've
learned the guys running the show could not hold it together. And I am just
speculating here,with the possibility of the bank roll running out before TvT
was completed. And yes and then just through it out there on the market
as a last ditch effort before abandoning.

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Old 04-26-2011, 12:56 PM   #7
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Default Abandonware

Yeah I think Zee is right.Lighthouse was probably shaky and trying desperately to get games out to shore up their bottom line.That would explain why was TvsT rushed out without the bugs solved
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:50 AM   #8
Kapt. Q
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Your two main questions Murkz:

Does anyone here know who now owns TvT?

If no one owns TvT is it then abandonware?

The first question is the hard one, but the second one should be easier to figure out coz it's a straight legal question, any lawyers in the house?

According to the following link the title must be over 4 years old,

http://www.abandonwarering.com/?Page=FAQ

Wiki has a good article, here's a quote of relevance:

Enforcement of copyright
Old copyrights are usually left undefended. This can be due to intentional non-enforcement by owners due to software age or obsolescence, but sometimes results from a corporate copyright holder going out of business without explicitly transferring ownership, leaving no one aware of the right to defend the copyright.
Even if the copyright is not defended, copying of such software is still unlawful in most jurisdictions when a copyright is still in effect. Abandonware changes hands on the assumption that the resources required to enforce copyrights outweigh benefits a copyright holder might realize from selling software licenses. Additionally, abandonware proponents argue that distributing software for which there is no one to defend the copyright is morally acceptable, even where unsupported by current law. Companies that have gone out of business without transferring their copyrights are an example of this; many hardware and software companies that developed older systems are long since out of business and precise documentation of the copyrights may not be readily available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

Last edited by Kapt. Q; 04-28-2011 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
What is Subsim.com's stance in relation to warez and piracy?

SUBSIM Review has a longstanding policy against software piracy.

We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez, abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, game cracks, illegal download sites, or illegal file-sharing. Nothing will get you banned faster than pointing people to illegal software distribution sites. Don't ask for serial numbers, manuals, or cracks. Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account and permanent ban. We do not care what you do on your computer in your home, but do not discuss it here.

Support computer game programmers buy legally purchasing their work. They have to eat too, you know.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:30 AM   #10
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excellent point Dowly

I'll PM Neal, make sure everything is kosher.

I dont think theres anything wrong as nobody is posting any links to free downloads or anything of that nature.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:14 AM   #11
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Yeah, better ask and be sure. IIRC, the problem is in that abandonware sites,
kinda make their own rules as to when something is in their mind OK to start
distributing for free.

It's a two edged sword, on one hand, there really is nothing wrong morally
in distributing something that doesn't financially or otherwise harm the
author of the game (game not sold anywhere anymore = no monetary loss
due to free downloads). But on the other hand, there is the law, that you are
breaking in doing so, think the copyright lasts for 60-70 years unless
otherwise stated.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:39 AM   #12
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Understood guys, if the thread is illegal please delete it.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:25 PM   #13
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Default Modding for Free

On the other hand, if I owned the copyrights and saw that people are modding for free - a game which no longer raking in any money - thus rekindling interest in that game I would turn a blind eye and think MMMM may be this might turn out to be a good idea to jump on the bandwagon and launch TvsT agaibn hoping to cash in on the new mods.I mean game companies allow modders to churn out new stuff all the time because they know thye are going to benefit from it directly or indirectly.Which sim currently available has not been modded or can anybody give me one example of a company refusing or rejecting any kind of modding as long as it"s for free????? What Murkz and cy are doing is nothing unusual and definitely nothing illegal.They are modding at their expense on their own time to play a game they purchased legally....
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
Yeah, better ask and be sure. IIRC, the problem is in that abandonware sites,
kinda make their own rules as to when something is in their mind OK to start
distributing for free.

It's a two edged sword, on one hand, there really is nothing wrong morally
in distributing something that doesn't financially or otherwise harm the
author of the game (game not sold anywhere anymore = no monetary loss
due to free downloads). But on the other hand, there is the law, that you are
breaking in doing so, think the copyright lasts for 60-70 years unless
otherwise stated.

Well said. Strictly speaking, no one has the legal right to distribute a game or work of art simply because it is no longer of interest by the author. A copyright means the author decides the distribution of his work, and I respect that. But, there's the real, reasonable issue of people wanting to play a game that's no longer available for sale. Over the years I have softened my stand on abandonware, I certainly do not want to be a hypocrite. But I maintain that it is better not to make discussion of possible abandonware titles a routine thing here, because some people will take that inch and run for a mile. Next thing you know, we have people stating that this or that game is "abandonware", when they really are not.

As for TvsT, if it is still being widely sold, then it's not my definition of abandonware (everyone's definition may vary). If you cannot reasonably find it for sale, then....
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:46 AM   #15
Kapt. Q
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens View Post
Well said. Strictly speaking, no one has the legal right to distribute a game or work of art simply because it is no longer of interest by the author. A copyright means the author decides the distribution of his work, and I respect that. But, there's the real, reasonable issue of people wanting to play a game that's no longer available for sale. Over the years I have softened my stand on abandonware, I certainly do not want to be a hypocrite. But I maintain that it is better not to make discussion of possible abandonware titles a routine thing here, because some people will take that inch and run for a mile. Next thing you know, we have people stating that this or that game is "abandonware", when they really are not.

As for TvsT, if it is still being widely sold, then it's not my definition of abandonware (everyone's definition may vary). If you cannot reasonably find it for sale, then....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...l_413c2syidv_b

Funny you should say that, the only place you can get it (old new copy) in the UK is at Amazon for an extortionate £99.99! and it's the last one, supposedly, after they have sold that copy at that lovely and fully legal price, is it then Abandonware? lol

I think one of the reasons this thread has come up is the fact that it is getting harder to aquire TvT, as the many posts on this site and others enquiring as to where to get it prove, and some of us who enjoy the game and it's Mods worry about it's future.
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