[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

CapnScurvy is talking about the Free Camera. I am referencing the External Camera. With stock FOTRSU .71 beta, the zoom in is limited. I am using the settings in TMO to change camera.dat only.

With Ultimate v0.71.....yes, there was a limited movement of the "Next/Previous" Unit Camera view....it provided a side view of rendered ship units without providing a way to fully "zoom in" on the ship. It will with the next release.

I guess there's some confusion on just what's the difference between the "External Camera" and the "Free Camera"? So, here's how Ultimate works:

*The F12 key takes you to the "Free Camera". It's the camera that's constantly behind the sub whenever you first strike the key. You can either move this camera to various positions around/through the sub; or take a joy ride to the end of the rendered world (if you like) with pointing the view with the mouse or directional keys and using the "Shift" key to speed along, or the "Control" key to slow you down. I use this camera view to "see" what the enemy ship may "see" by moving onto it's deck to look around. Kind of interesting to be stationed on the enemy ship deck when the subs Deck Gun shell hits. You can use this camera to move into a harbor to see what's there, or follow a ships surface to surface attack as it unfolds near your sub.

*The ">" or "<" keys (don't use the Shift key) will take you to any rendered ship unit (starting with your own sub), then progress through the possible rendered units until it get's back to the original sub. As the next version will do, the "Arrow" keys will move the camera "forward/back"; "left/right"....once again with no limit on how close you can get to the unit displayed. Depending on whether you have your "Num Lock" On/Off, the 8 or 2 keys on the Key Pad will move the camera forward or back; keys 4 or 6, left/right; keys 7 or 1, up/down; keys 9 or 3, "pan camera" up/down....again with no close-in restrictions. It will now move right through a target if you wish. Although we don't call it an "External Camera", I believe this is what you're referring to? How do you go to your "External Camera" if it's not through the Next/Previous keys?

Anyway, those are the two ways to get to an outside view....although, you still have the Bridge View (F4), which has a "free" camera movement....meant to represent the Captain actually walking about the outside of the sub (much like the Command Room View (F2). Or, the Deck Gun View (F10), or the Flak Gun View (F11) which are outside, but not capable of free movement.

I hope this explains the different camera setups in Ultimate, and what they do. At least, what they will do with the next release of the Beta.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

*The ">" or "<" keys (don't use the Shift key) will take you to any rendered ship unit (starting with your own sub), then progress through the possible rendered units until it get's back to the original sub. As the next version will do, the "Arrow" keys will move the camera "forward/back"; "left/right"....once again with no limit on how close you can get to the unit displayed. Depending on whether you have your "Num Lock" On/Off, the 8 or 2 keys on the Key Pad will move the camera forward or back; keys 4 or 6, left/right; keys 7 or 1, up/down; keys 9 or 3, "pan camera" up/down....again with no close-in restrictions. It will now move right through a target if you wish. Although we don't call it an "External Camera", I believe this is what you're referring to? How do you go to your "External Camera" if it's not through the Next/Previous keys?

I hope this explains the different camera setups in Ultimate, and what they do. At least, what they will do with the next release of the Beta.

scurv,


thanks. this is really excellent.



so....followup question time.
i have noticed that in some mega mods the External Camera has different features/qualities.



for example, i am playing TMO+RSRD and when i am viewing the External Camera and press either left or right arrow, the POV rotates on a point somewhere on my sub (let's say the foreward hawse pipe). so, when i pressed <> the display would move away from the ship being viewed and show what was either in front or in back of the ship i was originally viewing. AND, when i change views and then return to the External Camera, wherever i was looking, i am still look there. no reset of view.



when i played OpMonsun last month, that same key combo rotated the POV around the ship being displayed such that i could see all sides.



the keystrokes in Command.CFG are exactly the same so.........what is different?


thanks, pal.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

i have noticed that in some mega mods the External Camera has different features/qualities.

for example, i am playing TMO+RSRD and when i am viewing the External Camera and press either left or right arrow, the POV rotates on a point somewhere on my sub (let's say the foreward hawse pipe). so, when i pressed <> the display would move away from the ship being viewed and show what was either in front or in back of the ship i was originally viewing. AND, when i change views and then return to the External Camera, wherever i was looking, i am still look there. no reset of view.

when i played OpMonsun last month, that same key combo rotated the POV around the ship being displayed such that i could see all sides.

the keystrokes in Command.CFG are exactly the same so.........what is different?

thanks, pal.

The "Command.cfg" is where you "map" the keyboard keys to a specific function. The "Camera.dat" file is where you set the parameters for the various camera's in question. That's where I realized the External camera was set as the Stock game usually does......having the camera stationary in it's position.

The stock game did this for a simple reason, to keep players from seeing the flaws in-game. For example, the stock game didn't allow for "free" movement in the Command Room. The reason, some of the gauges are displayed incorrectly (the dials image is wacky.....it's not a dial at all!!). Players didn't notice this because you could only "rotate" in a circular stationary point in the Command room. When we started to give "free" movement to the room, allowing you to get close to the modeled features, this gave rise to the need to "fix" the gauges too. To not only have them look correct, but to actually have them function as they should (mouse click on the depth dial and the sub takes you to that depth setting).


Not all keyboards are alike, some have a "Number Key Pad", some don't. Some have extended "Function" keys....greater than F12, some don't. In some, there's an "F Lock" key (disables the "Function Keys), much like the "Num Lock" key that does the same thing. I've noticed that the Num Lock key will prevent some of the Key Pad functions from occurring, yet other Key Pad keys change in what they do?!? The point is to try all the different ways to use the "Extra" keys to see what they do. What one player see's as a way to do something with the camera (since it uses these "Extra" keys), may not be what another player can do.....because not all keyboards are exactly the same in style and function.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

With Ultimate v0.71.....yes, there was a limited movement of the "Next/Previous" Unit Camera view....it provided a side view of rendered ship units without providing a way to fully "zoom in" on the ship. It will with the next release.

I guess there's some confusion on just what's the difference between the "External Camera" and the "Free Camera"? So, here's how Ultimate works:
............
I hope this explains the different camera setups in Ultimate, and what they do. At least, what they will do with the next release of the Beta.

I believe that you've answered my question. I'm very happy to hear that the next iteration will have the ability to zoom in "External" (< >) view.
The "Free" Camera does not track with the unit. (F12 key)
The "External" tracks with the unit. (< > keys) ((Actually (, comma and . period keys) Do not use "Shift"))


The only modification I made, I got from comparing the camera.dat from TMO 2.5 with the camera.dat from FOTRSU. I don't recall the section of the camera.dat that I messed with, but I can double back and check, or I can send you the modified camera.dat file that I'm using as a mod after installing FORTSU.

In any case, with my mod, I can fully zoom in with the "External" (< >) camera as opposed with the FOTRSU .71 stock zoom which gets close, but not close enough for making screenshots that I like. (Which I then use as a wallpaper screen saver when I'm not playing the game.)


Thanks!

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

The "Command.cfg" is where you "map" the keyboard keys to a specific function. The "Camera.dat" file is where you set the parameters for the various camera's in question. That's where I realized the External camera was set as the Stock game usually does......having the camera stationary in it's position.

The stock game did this for a simple reason, to keep players from seeing the flaws in-game. For example, the stock game didn't allow for "free" movement in the Command Room. The reason, some of the gauges are displayed incorrectly (the dials image is wacky.....it's not a dial at all!!). Players didn't notice this because you could only "rotate" in a circular stationary point in the Command room. When we started to give "free" movement to the room, allowing you to get close to the modeled features, this gave rise to the need to "fix" the gauges too. To not only have them look correct, but to actually have them function as they should (mouse click on the depth dial and the sub takes you to that depth setting).


Not all keyboards are alike, some have a "Number Key Pad", some don't. Some have extended "Function" keys....greater than F12, some don't. In some, there's an "F Lock" key (disables the "Function Keys), much like the "Num Lock" key that does the same thing. I've noticed that the Num Lock key will prevent some of the Key Pad functions from occurring, yet other Key Pad keys change in what they do?!? The point is to try all the different ways to use the "Extra" keys to see what they do. What one player see's as a way to do something with the camera (since it uses these "Extra" keys), may not be what another player can do.....because not all keyboards are exactly the same in style and function.

thank you again.

i have never delved into the graphics until now. here are two Cameras.Dat. the left side is from OpMonsun and the right side is from TMO+RSRD. i took a guess as to which sub-parameter applied the the External View. these two files dont even use the same subparms. one uses terrainview and spherical view and the other uses freemove. YIKES! what's it all mean? (gotta go back to work) (real work)

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

CapnScurvy is talking about the Free Camera. I am referencing the External Camera. With stock FOTRSU .71 beta, the zoom in is limited. I am using the settings in TMO to change camera.dat only.

Are the TMO settings compatible with FOTRSU optics? ("Light" OTC version). I mean using manual targeting.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

Are the TMO settings compatible with FOTRSU optics? ("Light" OTC version). I mean using manual targeting.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

TMO Camera.dat files are not the same as Ultimate's...….there was no intention for Ducimus to make visual measurements accurate in TMO....so he didn't. For instance, the periscope view (a Camera.dat defined view) was changed from Stock just for "cosmetic" reasons....not to measure a meter as a true meter.....a yard as 3 feet, or 36 inches.

If a player uses Auto Targeting as his preferred targeting process....accurate measurement is decided by factors other than what's displayed on the Periscope camera view. However, if you use Manual Targeting, your view of the world needs to be accurate if you expect to measure things with the Stadimeter, or the Telemeter Divisions on the scope lens.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

TMO Camera.dat files are not the same as Ultimate's...….there was no intention for Ducimus to make visual measurements accurate in TMO....so he didn't. For instance, the periscope view (a Camera.dat defined view) was changed from Stock just for "cosmetic" reasons....not to measure a meter as a true meter.....a yard as 3 feet, or 36 inches.

If a player uses Auto Targeting as his preferred targeting process....accurate measurement is decided by factors other than what's displayed on the Periscope camera view. However, if you use Manual Targeting, your view of the world needs to be accurate if you expect to measure things with the Stadimeter, or the Telemeter Divisions on the scope lens.

ok....i use auto targeting.
i have noticed in TMO+RSRD that my torpedo hits are almost always aft of the center point of the target. i usually almost always shoot with AOB at 90 +/- 5 degrees. could this be a camera issue?
please keep in mind that my intent was a learn a bit more about the external camera vs the free camera. i am not experiencing a shooting issue but the two topics seem to be related.

[G Man]

I've just come back to the latest version of FOTRS after a few months away, great job on the battery recharge rates. I just encountered a Sentaka Dai sub and managed to fire a 3 torpedo spread at him from 1,000yds and got him with one hit just aft of midships. I expected him to sink pretty quickly but he just slowed down to 3kts. I managed to position for a bow shot and he spotted my scope and let fly with everything he had. It wasn't until my bow shot hit him that he started to sink. All the books I've read show that a sub needs a miracle to survive one torpedo hit, is there anyway to make the damage model on the jap subs more realistic?

[Cybermat47]

A Sen Taka Dai? Not sure that should be there, they never saw operational use.

Were you deep in Japanese waters during or after February 1945 when you encountered it?

[propbeanie]

At this point in time, anything can show up anywhere at anytime if it is a GENERIC call, which are the RGG (Random Generated Group) calls without a "Class=xxx" line, such as:

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1]
Type=4
Origin=Japan
Side=2

The Japanese subs are Type=17, and most of the subs in the game are RGG GENERIC calls. Once we know everything works, their dates might be attempted to be controlled again, but we have found that the game seemingly does what it wants with the dates, as the Early Balao and Early Tench issues can attest, as well as the game pulling "names" out of a hat that we didn't know existed... You will notice the playable submarines will pop-in with names that are not active in their "CFG" file, yet the game uses them. This is a very frustrating aspect of modding the game...

[G Man]

It was definitely a Sen Taka Dai, I got a good close look at it before firing the bow shot and yes I was in a Tench south of Japan in early 1945.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

ok....i use auto targeting.
i have noticed in TMO+RSRD that my torpedo hits are almost always aft of the center point of the target. i usually almost always shoot with AOB at 90 +/- 5 degrees. could this be a camera issue?

Remember to open your torpedo doors before shooting when using Auto Targeting. That's the best way of getting stern torpedo hits/misses with Auto Targeting.....the time taken to open the doors by the games auto-open setup will push the aim of the torpedo towards the rear of the target.

==============

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

A Sen Taka Dai? Not sure that should be there, they never saw operational use.

Well, we've got it in there!

The Hiryu shouldn't be seen after June 1942 either....but it can show up any time during game play. The fact is, if you followed the exact historical time line for ships appearing/disappearing, you'd have one boring game! We've taken some "license" to following exact historical fact...after all there's no Captain I.P. Overboard listed in the American Naval records either!!

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

... Well, we've got it in there!

The Hiryu shouldn't be seen after June 1942 either....but it can show up any time during game play. The fact is, if you followed the exact historical time line for ships appearing/disappearing, you'd have one boring game! We've taken some "license" to following exact historical fact...after all there's no Captain I.P. Overboard listed in the American Naval records either!!

... besides the fact that the game "argues" with us when we try to be "accurate" anyway, and does its own version of "history"...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Remember to open your torpedo doors before shooting when using Auto Targeting. That's the best way of getting stern torpedo hits/misses with Auto Targeting.....the time taken to open the doors by the games auto-open setup will push the aim of the torpedo towards the rear of the target.

oh yeah. that is SOP. or is it a firing point procedure? in either case , my last periscope use is always with the door(s) open.