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Old 07-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #1
Spraki
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Default TWOS: Manual TDC, check. RAOBF, check. Gyro... ARGH >_<

Hi.

This one is a bit more complicated than the smaller questions I had in the other thread. As a recap, I am playing Twos, max realism, real navigation etc.


Quick sitrep on my experience bar:
Currently, let's say I've learned how to use the RAOBF. I can get range and AOB quite well now, thanks to all the tutorials. I suppose I still need to learn the Attack Disc. I suppose I need to learn that to get even better at figuring AoBs and whatnots.

So far, I've been blowing up ships, but a large number of them we're sitting ducks. That's not the path of the Kaleun!


Now, what is really holding me back is the Gyro. I simply can't get behind when to shoot or where to point my periscope. I thought I did know, but I was wrong.

I've seen tutorials, but they don't "0°, 0°" the two gyro values. They just aim a bit here or there with the gyro values showing sorta random numbers, and they just shoot a torp. Things blow up. Cool.



So, I am a bit lost. Let's say you got range, AoB, speed well estimated. Where do you go from there?


1. Is it really necessary to have my uboot intersect with the target's course/track?

I was under the impression the torpedo would actually change course appropriately. Unless the curvature actually causes more inaccuracies, if the gyro angle is too large??


2. Videos are not helping much really. So, how do you guys do it regarding Gyro?
When do you launch your torpedo? Do you do 0° on gyro or do you aim somewhere as a lead? But how is that calculated?

so many questions
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:01 PM   #2
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Good video series for using RN and Manual TDC: Browse on Youtube for the Stoianm tutorial videos. There are some very good ones including 4-Bearing method, hydrophone firing solutions etc. The Stoianm videos are old but they can be replayed 1:1 with the current TWoS.

I'm sure Peter (aka THEBERBSTER) can re-direct you to his sticky tutorials, see stickes above, by browsing them you should find what you want.

Currently I'm making personal notes about using Auto TDC without RN, and it's complex enough for me... It starts from how to setup your game in the Options (manual TDC activated or not), the changes in the OFEV (XO TDC tab), how you identify ships (optional TWoS mod needed), and finally the firing procedure itself.
All this is much harder than in other SH series, like SH3/SH4. If you don't play the game for awhile you can easily forget all this
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spraki View Post
Hi.

This one is a bit more complicated than the smaller questions I had in the other thread. As a recap, I am playing Twos, max realism, real navigation etc.


Quick sitrep on my experience bar:
Currently, let's say I've learned how to use the RAOBF. I can get range and AOB quite well now, thanks to all the tutorials. I suppose I still need to learn the Attack Disc. I suppose I need to learn that to get even better at figuring AoBs and whatnots.

So far, I've been blowing up ships, but a large number of them we're sitting ducks. That's not the path of the Kaleun!





Now, what is really holding me back is the Gyro. I simply can't get behind when to shoot or where to point my periscope. I thought I did know, but I was wrong.

I've seen tutorials, but they don't "0°, 0°" the two gyro values. They just aim a bit here or there with the gyro values showing sorta random numbers, and they just shoot a torp. Things blow up. Cool.



So, I am a bit lost. Let's say you got range, AoB, speed well estimated. Where do you go from there?


1. Is it really necessary to have my uboot intersect with the target's course/track?

I was under the impression the torpedo would actually change course appropriately. Unless the curvature actually causes more inaccuracies, if the gyro angle is too large??


2. Videos are not helping much really. So, how do you guys do it regarding Gyro?
When do you launch your torpedo? Do you do 0° on gyro or do you aim somewhere as a lead? But how is that calculated?

so many questions

I would advocate you learning to use the attack disk .. on that disk, there is a lot of information on the variables you need to attack when your sub is moving.It is a stand-alone tool .. be patient There is a handbook that you will need to read a few times to get the understanding of it .. also a good hint .. there are charts that will give you information on setting up a torpedo with setting your gryo angle and track angle at zero .. look for the dick okane method here on the forums and on youtube
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:38 PM   #4
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1) no you don’t need to intercept a target track. A 90deg intercept is the best way to minimize errors. Setting a torp to curve will give you many errors. You want a zero gyro angle to minimize these errors.

90deg intercept with zero deg gyro gives the ultimate chance for a kill.

2) if you calculate a good solution, you can move your scope left or right, until the gyro angle reads zero. Wait for your target to cross the vertical cross hair and fire. If your solution is good, the torp should hit where you aim. Your TDC is a calculator that sets where your scope should be to get your zero angle.

Hope it helps. Check out my videos on youtube.

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Old 07-05-2018, 01:46 AM   #5
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I should make videos .. the arcade version of the game should not be an option I am seeing bastanko as I am a hardcore simmer without all the bull**** all you Whiney ass simmers should learn concept's .. and when you do the game will become fun
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstanko6 View Post
1) no you don’t need to intercept a target track. A 90deg intercept is the best way to minimize errors.
+ it also makes the changing AOB easier to work out
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_AJ View Post
I should make videos .. the arcade version of the game should not be an option I am seeing bastanko as I am a hardcore simmer without all the bull**** all you Whiney ass simmers should learn concept's .. and when you do the game will become fun
Your attitude for the game is surely right, but keep this in mind: Can you ask an interested newbie to start the game and soon get familiar with Manual TDC, Real Navigation, ordering the crew correclty (which is far from intuitive) etc. ? Methink not.

After one has played with enemy marks on the map display, with Auto TDC (which is not intuitive either), the crazy procedure in using the deck gun, playing without RN, all which corrisponds to 30% realism, after running it in 'arcade' as you say, one can get a good overall idea of SH5 and FROM THERE stepping upwards to better challenges.
That's to say you learn to walk before running like Usain Bolt.


But go ahead: I really would appreciate more updated videos for SH5
On the other hand, videos - even the best ones - are not the taste of everyone. I for example whish there would be a really good overall manual for the game, transcending the trashbin Ubisoft manual...This would for sure reduce substantially very noob questions about the game, although I don't see a problem with that.


Cheers,

Last edited by XenonSurf; 07-05-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #8
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If I can add if you are serious about hardcore manual targeting, start with AOB recognition. There are tons of resources to identify AOB.

Learn AOB on sight instead of using tools! If you can do that, you can eliminate s lot of errors right away. Conovaro has a lot of material for SH3 that works for 5. Basically it is pictures of a cargo ship at different angles. I have videos on AOB as well. Good luck!
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonSurf View Post
Your attitude for the game is surely right, but keep this in mind: Can you ask an interested newbie to start the game and soon get familiar with Manual TDC, Real Navigation, ordering the crew correctly (which is far from intuitive) etc. ? Methinks not.

After one has played with enemy marks on the map display, with Auto TDC (which is not intuitive either), the crazy procedure in using the deck gun, playing without RN, all which corresponds to 30% realism, after running it in 'arcade' as you say, one can get a good overall idea of SH5 and FROM THERE stepping upwards to better challenges.
That's to say you learn to walk before running like Usain Bolt.


But go ahead: I really would appreciate more updated videos for SH5
On the other hand, videos - even the best ones - are not the taste of everyone. I, for example, which there would be a really good overall manual for the game, transcending the trashbin Ubisoft manual...This would for sure reduce substantially very noob questions about the game, although I don't see a problem with that.


Cheers,
I commend you for making the effort in learning concepts. there is a lot of information out there that can clearly help you with your desire to change. the basics offered by Stoiam in his videos is an awesome start, but to look at using quicker methods of tracking and finding a torpedo solution is using RAFOB. the attack disk with speed range AOB solver -- I love this tool .. As Bastanko has said, you can look at the target ship and estimate AOB .. or you can use a formula called Aspect ratio. along with the back side of the attack disk, when you know the length and the height of the ship that is given in your recognition book. The attack disk will even give you course at ranges when the target ship is moving closer to you. once you have that a perfect shot will be a 90-degree angle. but at times using the attack disk will also give you AOB when you know what the course of the ship is and your own course. it does always have to be a perfect 90 angle.

There are a few tools in the game in your charts menu that will show pictures of a ship at different AOB. of 5.10.20-30-40-60-80-90 . A handbook will teach you how to use the attack disk. ill send you a copy to your inbox ..
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:59 PM   #10
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I should make videos .. the arcade version of the game should not be an option I am seeing bastanko as I am a hardcore simmer without all the bull**** all you Whiney ass simmers should learn concept's .. and when you do the game will become fun
I suppose you were referring to XenonSurf?. Because, in my newbie case, I started out immediately with full realism + Twos and RealNav.



Nonetheless, I simply figured some things are not working out before, as said in the OP. And when I did see a vid, I noticed one that actually had fired a torp without putting gyro on zero. (and it was a realism tutorial vid AFAIK) - I do have to dig it up again. Anyways, not important.


So far, I've been hitting stuff. And I intend to have that physical attack disc printed out. =)


Quote:
If I can add if you are serious about hardcore manual targeting, start with AOB recognition. There are tons of resources to identify AOB.

Learn AOB on sight instead of using tools! If you can do that, you can eliminate s lot of errors right away. Conovaro has a lot of material for SH3 that works for 5. Basically it is pictures of a cargo ship at different angles. I have videos on AOB as well. Good luck!
Oh ok.
Because I was under the impression that eyeballing all the time was bad. I still kinda like using the RAOBF, just because of the how logical the tool is with all the little gadgets to figure the math out


I will check this Conovaro person or so.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:43 AM   #11
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Eyeballing is not bad. In fact, it was done more than you think in real life.

The real commanders had a short window to get into position, make a decision, and fire a torp.

Then factor in bad weather, light, and battle conditions.

These variables would make it necessary to shoot on the fly at a given moment.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:12 PM   #12
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Yeah. I know regarding reallife eyeballing.

I found the video. It is the one from ThaineFurrows called 'Sh5 - attack plot'.


Ok. At 27mins of the video, he fires the torp after what I can assume is a very good calculation for the firing solution.

However, I noticed he uses the periscope and aims at the structure instead of the 0' gyro.

Did the torpedo actually go straight or did it actually do a curve during it's runtime?

In SH1, you had 360' disc so to speak to tell the torp where to go once launched. It just confuses me when the torp does follow the bearing of your periscope and when not.

Or is this all due to the TDC being on or not?
Bit lost.

Been watching the video a few times but couldn't replicate all the results other than dumb luck.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spraki View Post
Yeah. I know regarding reallife eyeballing.

I found the video. It is the one from ThaineFurrows called 'Sh5 - attack plot'.


Ok. At 27mins of the video, he fires the torp after what I can assume is a very good calculation for the firing solution.

However, I noticed he uses the periscope and aims at the structure instead of the 0' gyro.

Did the torpedo actually go straight or did it actually do a curve during it's runtime?

In SH1, you had 360' disc so to speak to tell the torp where to go once launched. It just confuses me when the torp does follow the bearing of your periscope and when not.

Or is this all due to the TDC being on or not?
Bit lost.

Been watching the video a few times but couldn't replicate all the results other than dumb luck.


I dong know spraki if these would help thane explains the dials on the TDc very thoroughly




Also, another method By POTUS he uses the attack plot method it starts around 14:55 were he explains himself using the attack plot method -- his version and it goes into the scope point. Alos the scope will need to be set at an angle when you see the target like if it is 11 degrees to starboard. the torpedo will fire at zero scope angle . while you shoot at 11 degrees

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Old 07-25-2018, 03:52 PM   #14
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Thanks!
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