US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 198

vienna · 05-25-17, 11:35 AM

The other possibility is the knock on the NY Times is a beard for the real intent: for the UK government to make its point without calling out the actual intended recipient. It is poor form, diplomatically, to publicly chastise a foreign government, particularly a strong ally, directly, so a sort of surrogate is found, in this case, the NYT. A private chastisement could have happened through normal diplomatic and intelligence channels, but the UK government may have wanted to make its extreme displeasure known more publicly. Classic diplomacy: express your displeasure without actually humiliating the actual target. Think of it this way, you really want to send a warning message to the carrier fleet chugging past, but, instead of firing across the carrier bow, you fire across the bow of an escort ship...

<O>

Skybird · 05-25-17, 12:02 PM

There was no "leak" in Britain. British police shared confidential info with US counterparts, as was common habit, and in the US someobdy then shared this info with the media. This affects the efficiency of British investigation and costs the tactical element of surprise, maybe. And that is why this leaking is so irresponsible, its timing. It was too early for such information made poublic, for it revealed what the invetsigators already knew.

Its also a principle thing. You do not publish information during a running crime hunt if publishing what the police knows or assumes could help the suspects to get early-warned.

Possible that somebody wanted to mine the relation between May and the big Donald. Maybe a warning to May to be less enthusiastic about Donaldland, as she early this year showed to be, probbaly for pragmatic opportunism.

Meanwhile the big Donald congratulated Duterte and boasted about these two very beautiful, really great nuclear submarines, which are the best in the world, and that the US has now stationed offshore Northkorea. What a brain vacuum. He talks in clichees all the time, and he acts in clichees all the time. Currently one seems to be an idiot if voluntarily sharing confidential information with the US, and its big Donald.

Rockstar · 05-25-17, 04:06 PM

Well case in point Media goes after The Donald when they perceive he has done something wrong.

In the case of the Manchester photos it was the NYTs who broke the story before anyone else and in their article they said the information was distributed by British Officials. There was absolutely not one mention about US Officials or the president as a source, just British officials.

Now we look at the media drooling over the comment he made about submarines operating near Best Korea. Accusations galore!

See what I mean?

Thing is he didn't pass along one iota of state secrets. If anyone bothered to read the news once in awhile what he stated is common freaking knowledge . Just an FYI for those of you living in a box or with the memory of a fish. The Navy published information for public consumption April 25 concerning the two submarines Michigan and the Cheyenne were to be operating in the area.

Looky there, I revealed more than the President did. I just handed you the names of the submarines and I don't even have a security clearance!

idgits

Rockstar · 05-25-17, 07:24 PM

If I were that little wise arse Duterte I'd think twice about shoot'n my mouth off in front of someone boasting about superior firepower I cant see.

Of course snowflakes get their panties in a wad over it. But I like the fact The Donald hinted at the possibilties in front of that little turd stain. Donald dont play around if ya got it flaunt it. Or maybe when meeting for the first time he should bow before king Duterte?

Catfish · 05-26-17, 03:06 PM

Trump breaks G7 summit. It seems dumbness knows no bounds.

Dowly · 05-26-17, 03:13 PM

Please do post links/sources.

Catfish · 05-26-17, 03:38 PM

Sry I did not want to post here anymore, saw an in depth analysis in the TV, also some German background research done about Russia and the Mafia. Not at home, will see if I find it and post a link then. Bad, bad, bad, with mobile. Feel free to delete the post.

Rockstar · 05-26-17, 04:42 PM

So Trump told Italy to pack sand when it came to resettling your freeloading guests? All I see in other topics here is euros complaining about them. Now you want us to take care of your problems again? LOLLOLOLOLOL

See if Sweden will take'em

Dowly · 05-26-17, 04:48 PM

Sorry, Rockstar, but do have a link?

vienna · 05-27-17, 09:35 PM

<O>

05-28-17, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So Trump told Italy to pack sand when it came to resettling your freeloading guests? All I see in other topics here is euros complaining about them. Now you want us to take care of your problems again? LOLLOLOLOLOL

See if Sweden will take'em

Hawk66 · 05-28-17, 12:52 PM

Is there any broader discussion in the US about Trump's foreign visit tour, especially how he treats the Saudis vs the 'old' Europe - but nevertheless still the allies of the US and sharing common values ?

I do not question some valid points, e.g. about defense spending in Europe. I question mainly his manners and respect for the European leaders, their people, their vision and acknowledging their constrains in which they have to govern in a challenging environment.

I know that Senator McCain has another opinion than Trump concerning foreign affairs but is he the lonely senior member in Republican Party concerning this matters nowadays ?

I have to say that I do not belong to do hysteric group of people in my country sharing the fear concerning Trump.
But it is visible now that the relations between US and Europe are in real danger (in contrast to the dispute of the Iraq invasion). Even chancellor Merkel, one of the strongest Pro-US leaders in Europe, has questioned the reliability of the US in a today's speech, which she has never done before - also not at the peak of the NSA/Snowden/'monitoring of her smartphone' affairs.

Putin, China and others will exploit this all and I guess nobody here is believing that this contributes to a better world.

If the majority wishes that the relations between the US and Europe should continue on the same foundation since the end of WWII, both parties have to change and adapt before it is too late. I guess there is not much time left...

Rockstar · 05-28-17, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk66

Is there any broader discussion in the US about Trump's foreign visit tour, especially how he treats the Saudis vs the 'old' Europe - but nevertheless still the allies of the US and sharing common values ?

I do not question some valid points, e.g. about defense spending in Europe. I question mainly his manners and respect for the European leaders, their people, their vision and acknowledging their constrains in which they have to govern in a challenging environment.

I know that Senator McCain has another opinion than Trump concerning foreign affairs but is he the lonely senior member in Republican Party concerning this matters nowadays ?

I have to say that I do not belong to do hysteric group of people in my country sharing the fear concerning Trump.
But it is visible now that the relations between US and Europe are in real danger (in contrast to the dispute of the Iraq invasion). Even chancellor Merkel, one of the strongest Pro-US leaders in Europe, has questioned the reliability of the US in a today's speech, which she has never done before - also not at the peak of the NSA/Snowden/'monitoring of her smartphone' affairs.

Putin, China and others will exploit this all and I guess nobody here is believing that this contributes to a better world.

If the majority wishes that the relations between the US and Europe should continue on the same foundation since the end of WWII, both parties have to change and adapt before it is too late. I guess there is not much time left...

I heard aunty Merkel warned the U.S. AND Britain are no longer reliable partners.

"The times in which we could completely depend on others are on the way out. I've experienced that in the last few days,"

Those are her words which I don't think for moment are true. Too bad she has to say such things.

Skybird · 05-30-17, 09:52 AM

^ I am no Merkel fan, by far not, but I think she got it right this time.

However:

Diplomatic parquet

Meanwhile Macron-Man strikes Russia with fists of iron. Europe currently rules the scene.

Skybird · 05-30-17, 10:06 AM

On Merkel'S notes:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1149757.html

On the other hand:

http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-turning...ent/a-39024500

Time will tell. Merkel is a mercilessly opportunistic and without allowing ethical guidelines hindering her, if she has one principle leading her than to never let principles get in her way. She will make use of the current situation for pushing for more so-called "EUI integration", and the current situation is not just Trump and Brexit, but also the flying Frenchman in Paris, Macron-Man, savior of hopes, carrier of stellar expectations and defender of collateral EU debt damage. The time is ripe for it, now that the socalled poltical lefdt and potlical right have collapsed and fallen together into one and the same undefined something that looks, smells and tastes like socialist continental superstate no matter whether served to the involuntary guests as hot or cooled down dish.

05-25-17, 11:35 AM	#2956
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,506 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The other possibility is the knock on the NY Times is a beard for the real intent: for the UK government to make its point without calling out the actual intended recipient. It is poor form, diplomatically, to publicly chastise a foreign government, particularly a strong ally, directly, so a sort of surrogate is found, in this case, the NYT. A private chastisement could have happened through normal diplomatic and intelligence channels, but the UK government may have wanted to make its extreme displeasure known more publicly. Classic diplomacy: express your displeasure without actually humiliating the actual target. Think of it this way, you really want to send a warning message to the carrier fleet chugging past, but, instead of firing across the carrier bow, you fire across the bow of an escort ship... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

05-25-17, 12:02 PM	#2957
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,486 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	There was no "leak" in Britain. British police shared confidential info with US counterparts, as was common habit, and in the US someobdy then shared this info with the media. This affects the efficiency of British investigation and costs the tactical element of surprise, maybe. And that is why this leaking is so irresponsible, its timing. It was too early for such information made poublic, for it revealed what the invetsigators already knew. Its also a principle thing. You do not publish information during a running crime hunt if publishing what the police knows or assumes could help the suspects to get early-warned. Possible that somebody wanted to mine the relation between May and the big Donald. Maybe a warning to May to be less enthusiastic about Donaldland, as she early this year showed to be, probbaly for pragmatic opportunism. Meanwhile the big Donald congratulated Duterte and boasted about these two very beautiful, really great nuclear submarines, which are the best in the world, and that the US has now stationed offshore Northkorea. What a brain vacuum. He talks in clichees all the time, and he acts in clichees all the time. Currently one seems to be an idiot if voluntarily sharing confidential information with the US, and its big Donald. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-25-17, 04:06 PM	#2958
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Well case in point Media goes after The Donald when they perceive he has done something wrong. In the case of the Manchester photos it was the NYTs who broke the story before anyone else and in their article they said the information was distributed by British Officials. There was absolutely not one mention about US Officials or the president as a source, just British officials. Now we look at the media drooling over the comment he made about submarines operating near Best Korea. Accusations galore! See what I mean? Thing is he didn't pass along one iota of state secrets. If anyone bothered to read the news once in awhile what he stated is common freaking knowledge . Just an FYI for those of you living in a box or with the memory of a fish. The Navy published information for public consumption April 25 concerning the two submarines Michigan and the Cheyenne were to be operating in the area. Looky there, I revealed more than the President did. I just handed you the names of the submarines and I don't even have a security clearance! idgits __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 05-26-17 at 10:19 AM.

05-25-17, 07:24 PM	#2959
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If I were that little wise arse Duterte I'd think twice about shoot'n my mouth off in front of someone boasting about superior firepower I cant see. Of course snowflakes get their panties in a wad over it. But I like the fact The Donald hinted at the possibilties in front of that little turd stain. Donald dont play around if ya got it flaunt it. Or maybe when meeting for the first time he should bow before king Duterte? __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 05-26-17 at 10:21 AM.

05-26-17, 03:06 PM	#2960
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Trump breaks G7 summit. It seems dumbness knows no bounds. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-26-17, 03:13 PM	#2961
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Please do post links/sources.

05-26-17, 03:38 PM	#2962
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Sry I did not want to post here anymore, saw an in depth analysis in the TV, also some German background research done about Russia and the Mafia. Not at home, will see if I find it and post a link then. Bad, bad, bad, with mobile. Feel free to delete the post. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-26-17, 04:42 PM	#2963
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	So Trump told Italy to pack sand when it came to resettling your freeloading guests? All I see in other topics here is euros complaining about them. Now you want us to take care of your problems again? LOLLOLOLOLOL See if Sweden will take'em __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

05-26-17, 04:48 PM	#2964
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Sorry, Rockstar, but do have a link? Last edited by Dowly; 05-26-17 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Vienna->Rockstar

05-27-17, 09:35 PM	#2965
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,506 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	<O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

05-28-17, 12:52 PM	#2967
Hawk66 Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 597 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Is there any broader discussion in the US about Trump's foreign visit tour, especially how he treats the Saudis vs the 'old' Europe - but nevertheless still the allies of the US and sharing common values ? I do not question some valid points, e.g. about defense spending in Europe. I question mainly his manners and respect for the European leaders, their people, their vision and acknowledging their constrains in which they have to govern in a challenging environment. I know that Senator McCain has another opinion than Trump concerning foreign affairs but is he the lonely senior member in Republican Party concerning this matters nowadays ? I have to say that I do not belong to do hysteric group of people in my country sharing the fear concerning Trump. But it is visible now that the relations between US and Europe are in real danger (in contrast to the dispute of the Iraq invasion). Even chancellor Merkel, one of the strongest Pro-US leaders in Europe, has questioned the reliability of the US in a today's speech, which she has never done before - also not at the peak of the NSA/Snowden/'monitoring of her smartphone' affairs. Putin, China and others will exploit this all and I guess nobody here is believing that this contributes to a better world. If the majority wishes that the relations between the US and Europe should continue on the same foundation since the end of WWII, both parties have to change and adapt before it is too late. I guess there is not much time left...

05-30-17, 09:52 AM	#2969
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,486 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	^ I am no Merkel fan, by far not, but I think she got it right this time. However: Diplomatic parquet Meanwhile Macron-Man strikes Russia with fists of iron. Europe currently rules the scene. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-30-17, 10:06 AM	#2970
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,486 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	On Merkel'S notes: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1149757.html On the other hand: http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-turning...ent/a-39024500 Time will tell. Merkel is a mercilessly opportunistic and without allowing ethical guidelines hindering her, if she has one principle leading her than to never let principles get in her way. She will make use of the current situation for pushing for more so-called "EUI integration", and the current situation is not just Trump and Brexit, but also the flying Frenchman in Paris, Macron-Man, savior of hopes, carrier of stellar expectations and defender of collateral EU debt damage. The time is ripe for it, now that the socalled poltical lefdt and potlical right have collapsed and fallen together into one and the same undefined something that looks, smells and tastes like socialist continental superstate no matter whether served to the involuntary guests as hot or cooled down dish. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.