How to Get SSGN's to Engage Most Effectively

[LuftWolf]

Ok, here are the ground rules:

In order to get the SSGN's to engage without sensor data, you need to have a linking platform.

The SSGN's will usually fire four missile per target, per salvo. However, if you have more than three targets linked, close together, the SSGN's will fire a continuous salvo at the group.

If you have more than one SSGN participating in the attack, only the closest SSGN will salvo fire on it's own. The other SSGN's will wait until the first SSGN has expended it's missiles before engaging in salvo fire.

Do NOT assign the SSGN's a specific target in the waypoints or main object dialogue, as it will limit it's fire only to that target. If you leave it as "none", the closest SSGN will salvo fire at every target on the link.

In order to get farther SSGN's to salvo fire, you need to use scripts. You have to work out the details of how to do this most effectively for each situation, but clearly the SSGN's are working on the principle of priority fire for the closest SSGN and the game engine limits the total number of missiles in the air for any given target for the ALL the SSGN's. This means, theoretically, that if you instruct each SSGN to fire at a specific set of targets, then each will salvo fire to the best of its ability.

The things you CANNOT do as mission designers:

You cannot get one SSGN or multiple SSGN's to fire more than four missiles at any given target at one time. So if you only have a single target, then the SSGN's will only fire four missiles. However, if you have a number of targets close together, and the SSGN is firing from long range, then it is, for all practical purpose, one long salvo fired at the whole group.

You cannot get two SSGN's to engage one target with salvoes at the same time, probably due to the above restriction of no more than four missiles in the air for any one target, regardless of the number of SSGN's firing.

So, for mission designers, this means that in order to get realistic attack behavior for SSGN's, you need to have them fire with a linking platform spotting for them, against large groups of ships, and use scripts, perhaps linked with a trigger, to make the farther SSGN's fire, and try to find a way (I'm not that familar with the mission editor) to assign multiple, individual, unique targets to each SSGN, if you can find a way to assign at least three targets to each SSGN, and prohibit them from firing against targets they are not assigned, then you should be able to get full, constant salvoes from each SSGN against the SAG as a whole.

Enjoy!

Based on these tests, I'm not hopeful of being able to make the SSGN's salvo fire using doctrines, since this behavior seems to be hardcoded in the engine, with very specific behaviors not accounted for in doctrines, but we can try!

[LuftWolf]

Edit: ignore this, all you have to do it set each SSGN's on a different side, and put those sides in an alliance, and provide each side with its own linking platform and you can get HUGE SSGN's missile storms!

I haven't tested this at all but I have a thought about forcing assigned targets for each SSGN.

You could use the Sides and ROE. For example, half the SAG is Side 0, the other half is Side 1. They have peacetime ROE set so they don't annilate each other.

One SSGN is Side 2 and the other SSGN is Side 3. They also have peacetime ROE set. Side 2 is hostile to Side 0 and peacetime ROE to Side 1. Side 3 is hostile to Side 1 and peacetime ROE to side 0.

You would of course need a separate linking platform for Side 2 and Side 3, but since they are far far away from the action, all that matters is that they fire, and the usual mess that doing that would cause wouldn't happen.

This is a little messy, but would probably work. I hope you mission designers can think of a better way to do this.

Do you have a method of forcing certain platforms not to engage other specific platforms, but still allow for normal behavior otherwise? :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

YES YES YES!!!

By putting the SSGN's on different sides, and then setting those sides in alliance with ROE wartime, you can get over the restriction of the number of missiles in the air!!!

So, all you have to do is put each SSGN on a different side, and then provide a separate linking platform for each side, and you can get a unlimited number of missiles in the air for each target, based on the number of SSGN's!

Screenshots to follow. :|\

[LuftWolf]

So, is this enough missiles for you? :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

I should mention, with the fixes to the AEGIS missile intercept systems, the SS-N-19 shipwreck, which is supersonic, but not seaskimming, is not nearly as effective as before.

I had two FFG's, a DDG, and a Spruance DD in this convoy. And even with four SSGN's doing salvo fire, it takes almost all the missiles to sink all four of the ships... of course, if the Burke buys it early, or there is no AEGIS ship with VLS, then the SS-N-19 Shipwrecks from even a single SSGN are lethal.

AEGIS makes a HUGE HUGE difference now in missile defense, with the latest changes made in LWAMI 2.02/3, and now, with this new information for you mission designers, you should be able to make very interesting scenarios with AEGIS ships vs. long range SSGN's.

For example, a "seek and spot" mission for an Akula or Kilo. Have about two or three Oscars way way far away on different sides. Set a SAG to go sailing somewhere. A player Akula is tasked with visually IDing the sag. Set a goal trigger for a picture taken of an aircraft carrier or cruiser or something... or the player is tasked with sinking the AEGIS cruiser defending the SAG. Linked to that goal trigger is a create object trigger which spawns aircraft (E-3's are the best because they can be WELL outside the engagement range of the AEGIS vessles, which is about 25nm, and still pick up every ship, but you can experiment with other aircraft, as long as they can detect all the ships without getting shot down by the vessles, it doesn't matter what they are, as they are simply being used as a design-impliment to make the mission work), one aircraft for each side which has an SSGN. They will then spawn close enough to the SAG to provide linking information... then the SSGN's should let loose their hellstorms of SS-N-19's, without any need for scripts or any special instruction. The player Akula watches the incoming destruction and is tasked with mop up duty.

Sound good?...

[LuftWolf]

Wow, now that scenario with the four Oscars is very impressive... the SSGN's will sustain their salvo for 12-15 minutes or more until the entire SAG is sunk!

Now I'm going to try four Oscars vs. a Tico VLS and Burke. :hmm:

... The Tico VLS and the Burke lasted exactly 10 minutes against the four Oscars. Hell yeah!

I've never seen so many missiles...

Let me know if you guys need any help setting this up in your scenarios!

[FERdeBOER]

WOW Luft!

You cook it, you eat it (Spanish phrase)

This opens a great area of missions. Since now, when I've tried to make CV attacks missions I had to use only Akulas beacuse the Oscar behaviour.

Now, as you say, is possibly to make a mission in which the Akula driver is meant to attack the escorts for clearing the way to the Oscar attack.
And not only for CV groups, but also for convoys...

GREAT!!

[darksythe]

Hey LW I see from the shots that your enjoying K317 now as soon as i can get motivated ill have orders issued for you ive got your mish almost done just have to fiqure out why my triggers aint working right.

[Bill Nichols]

Luftwolf -- Do you actually need a 'linking platform'? Didn't you say in another thread,

"Well, I'm sure you guys know this, but I have found that you can use a script with the EnterSolution command on the target platform and then follow that command with an engage script, and it works beautifully! "

[FERdeBOER]

I'm overexcited!!!

After various tries without good behaviour of the Oscar with only two missiles at time, suddenly... 10 missiles!!!!

First one... after a few seconds, 7 almost consecutive... then another to a different ship... and seconds later the 10th, on the same direction of the first 8 ones.

All crossed the outer screen, but, only four get close to the CV (Kutnesov) after the first SAM salvo of Kutnesov herself and the Kirov. Of the 4, one was fouled by the countermeasures and went to sea, another was destroyed, and two made impact on Kutnesov. WOW!! 80% damaged.

I will try the same mission various times to see if always happens the same.

Another thing: I set a Kilo, far from the carrier group (50 miles), with other mission, but when the link (Bear) detects the carrier group, the Kilo tries to engage them. She increased the speed and headed for the CV direction. Cavitating.
It's easily solved by making the Kilo of one side that has not link plane with the carrier, (allied with the Oscar side, of course).

Despite this "problem" I liked very much the behaviour of the Kilo. She was not just running at flank to the CVs group, she reduced frecuently and turned for a few minutes. Then again to flank heading to the objetive. A sprint and drift like.

[FERdeBOER]

All right, three tests, three pretty good attacks.

The general attack is similar. The Oscar allways attacks first the first escort (a Frigate) with 3 or 4 missiles, not consecutives, usually one, then two, then one again...
After that came the 10 missile launch. Not allways the same cuantity, first, one, then a salvo from 6 to 8 consecutives, and then the remaing.

I have a question: what is the reload time for an Oscar? because on 10 minutes she had launched 20 missiles.

I like it very much, is a visual spectacle. Those missiles, the SAMs, the guns, the Chaff, the course changes...
I like also the different finish. Sometimes the Oscar can sink the Kutnesov and 2 or 3 escorts, sometimes just one ship. I LOVE when de missiles are fooled by the chaff and misses the target...

I've noticed two things: the Kirov is not a very good friend when defending from missiles. But the Sovremennyy and Udaloy classes are pretty good. Very hard to sink with missiles (of course not with a hughe salvo, but with two or three).

For those who want to know, The Oscar is 33 miles form the CV, at 150 feet.
I made a Script about engaging the Kutnesov with Oscar's best weapon When the patrol craft has detected her.

Is that the real power and behaviour of the Oscar? Amazing! I want one for my swimming pool :rotfl:

[stormrider_sp]

Question about Promoting to Link:

Do you have to promote the link frequently or 1 time only will do?

[stormrider_sp]

The OSCAR has diagonal tubes for its shipwrecks missiles, so I guess it can launch all at once. There ain´t no reload time.

[stormrider_sp]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/theater/949.htm

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp

Question about Promoting to Link:

Do you have to promote the link frequently or 1 time only will do?

I think if you made a good TMA and the objetive doesn't change course or speed one time is enought. But I'm not sure.

And thanks for the info about the Oscar.

Changing theme: I was wrong when saying the link plane was a Bear. It was a E-3. My first tries were with Bear, and now I tested again with it. The Oscar becames less agressive and doesn't launch the 6-8 missile salvo. Also spread more the launches and doesn't concentrate as many as she make when using a E-3.

Maybe is for the RADAR source? :hmm: