XXI Type Pressure Hull Durability Fix

Alex Stolz · 10-28-18, 02:17 PM

Ahoy, all the captains!
I'd like to launch a patrol with a XXI Type U-boat from Bergen to the Caribbean imitating the Schee's objective. I've read today that the only U-boat of that type which had a contact with enemy ships on May 5 1945 had to head there. Obviously, the mission was never completed in reality, but in SH3 we have an option to sail on the XXI-s since October 1944.
But before that I need to fix the vanilla SH3 serious and stupid fault. Guess that everybody knows that this powerful boat which can plunge into the abyss of the ocean as deep as 320 metes has an extremely fragile hull, dramatically vulnerable to depth charges. According to my experience her hull is much weaker than one of the VII-C type, which can dive only as deed as 280 or even less. So as the default properties of the game are ridiculous.
Does anybody know what must be change in the game files to make the game more enjoyable and realistic?

Thanks to all in advance

Nicolas · 10-28-18, 04:11 PM

You mean is too weak or too strong in the game?
I don't know what files to change that, maybe with silent editor some files in the sub folder in sh3 or maybe zones.cfg.

But if you want better realism you should download one of the mod packs.

Alex Stolz · 10-28-18, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

You mean is too weak or too strong in the game?

Maybe I was not clear enough. I mean the XXI-type hull is extremely weak in the original game and in GWX as well, and probably in NYGM mode. In fact this is the most fragile boat in the game which is ridiculous just because it can dive deeper than any other sub.

Nicolas · 10-28-18, 10:33 PM

If i remember right the hitpoints are in the xxi subfolder, and part of the sub equipment are in zones.cfg, you can investigate in those folders, i think you will need silent editor for some files.
I don't know anymore.

Are you sure is that weak?, maybe you had bad luck with a too near depth charge.

Alex Stolz · 10-29-18, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

If i remember right the hitpoints are in the xxi subfolder, and part of the sub equipment are in zones.cfg, you can investigate in those folders, i think you will need silent editor for some files.
I don't know anymore.

I take a look but since I'm not a modes-maker it could be pretty difficult to find lines I need to correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

Are you sure is that weak?, maybe you had bad luck with a too near depth charge.

I'm sure, and as far as I know many captains complain that the boat is almost unplayable. Even a single depth charge causes extreme damage.
And I repeat this is illogical because the boat can dive deeper than any other sub in the game so its hull must be stronger no only to water pressure but also to any kind of explosion and other kinds of damage, roughly speaking it must be stronger for 15-20% in comparison with other subs.

Obltn Strand · 10-29-18, 08:32 AM

In real life type xxi had serious construction flaws. It was built as blocks which were transported to docks for welding. Now if blocks won't fit perfectly (and they seldom do) welds are thinner than the actual preasure hull thus creating a weak point. Tolerance is usually mill or two. Less if we are talking about submarine construction...

Perhaps the game simulates this..?

GOZO · 10-29-18, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obltn Strand

In real life type xxi had serious construction flaws. It was built as blocks which were transported to docks for welding. Now if blocks won't fit perfectly (and they seldom do) welds are thinner than the actual preasure hull thus creating a weak point. Tolerance is usually mill or two. Less if we are talking about submarine construction...

Perhaps the game simulates this..?

How is it in LSH3???

Alex Stolz · 10-29-18, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obltn Strand

In real life type xxi had serious construction flaws.
Perhaps the game simulates this..?

All these construction flaws had been detected and had been fixed before the boats were commissioned.
According to Wiki article they were being built in a rush and as many as 118 were constructed till 1945 but they had to undergo long periods of extensive post-production work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_XXI_submarine

Since the game allows to use the XXI type since October 1944 it gives a kind of alternative history option in which poorly constructed subs were commissioned anyway.
Hmm... on the one hand this explanation sounds convincing, because German command wanted to take any chance to change the battle for the Atlantic in its favour even despite of obvious construction flaws of the new Wonder weapon (Wunderwaffe).
But how poorly constructed subs can dive to such deep depths and stay intact being only vulnerable to depth charges explosions in the same time?
As for me, there is a contradiction, and the most realistic option is not to use this U-boat at all.
Although, the sub of this tipe is in the game it may be modified to normal conditions of a U-boat allowed to sail in the hight seas.

Nicolas · 10-29-18, 12:28 PM

I was curious and opened some files with silent editor to see if there is something, and:

In nss_uboat21.zon you have 'colisionableobject'

a type 7c has 350 hitpoints and 21 has 450
7c armor 25 and xxi armor 28

The only weakness i saw was that crash speed, was 2 instead of 0.1 in the 7c meaning that if you are below crush depth you die pretty quickly.

This is on nygm.

Alex Stolz · 10-29-18, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

I was curious and opened some files with silent editor to see if there is something, and:

In nss_uboat21.zon you have 'colisionableobject'

a type 7c has 350 hitpoints and 21 has 450
7c armor 25 and xxi armor 28

The only weakness i saw was that crash speed, was 2 instead of 0.1 in the 7c meaning that if you are below crush depth you die pretty quickly.

This is on nygm.

I've never been playing NYGM. I'm on GWX3. It is probably modded in the former.
Taking into account the depth the XXI type can dive the reduction of its strength looks fairly reasonable because the pressure rises dramatically in the ocean at every meter. In other words, this value is ok.
I think the best way to feel that something is wrong with the boat is to play a short mission against a group of destroyers wiht XXI and immediately after the same one with IXD or IXC. You will feel the difference.

Jeff-Groves · 10-29-18, 01:41 PM

It's your Game install. Adjust it to suit yourself.

FGamer1956 · 11-03-18, 05:52 AM

Hi, Alex..if you you want dive deeper, then change in XXI.cfg from 450 to 700. The new depth ist max 370m. Dive slower after 300m !
greetings

Dirk Gently · 11-10-18, 09:31 AM

There's a setting in the XXI's zon file that makes it crush extremely fast when diving below max depth. It takes 50 points of damage per second where most subs have 2 points of damage per second.

The hull itself has more hit points and more armor than any other sub in the game.

EDIT: I'm doing this from memory (a decade) and I noticed someone sporting some different numbers up here so I might be off. But I remember it being so much higher that it baffled me.

Alex Stolz · 11-14-18, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Gently

There's a setting in the XXI's zon file that makes it crush extremely fast when diving below max depth. It takes 50 points of damage per second where most subs have 2 points of damage per second.

The hull itself has more hit points and more armor than any other sub in the game.

Is it possible to fix all these flaws somehow?

Dirk Gently · 11-14-18, 12:36 PM

Yes and it's very simple.

Download "Silent 3ditor", install it and open the the *.zon file in the Data\Submarine\{the sub you want to edit}\

One of the editable sections is called "ColisionableObject" and contains the following values;

ArmorLevel = (Toughness of the hull)
Hit_Points = (Hit points... duh)
CrashDepth = (At what depth your hull start to take pressure damage)
CrashSpeed = (How fast the hull accumulates damage)
Rebound = (No idea but all subs seem to have the same value)

IMPORTANT: CrashDepth in this file refers to "crush depth" and have nothing to do with the crash dive settings.

As I already said, Type XXI already have the toughest hull and deepest crush depth. So set CrashSpeed to a lower number, for example 1,0 which deals 1 hp per second. Alternatively 0,1 which accumulates to 1hp per 10 seconds.

10-28-18, 02:17 PM	#1
Alex Stolz Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 14 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	XXI Type Pressure Hull Durability Fix Ahoy, all the captains! I'd like to launch a patrol with a XXI Type U-boat from Bergen to the Caribbean imitating the Schee's objective. I've read today that the only U-boat of that type which had a contact with enemy ships on May 5 1945 had to head there. Obviously, the mission was never completed in reality, but in SH3 we have an option to sail on the XXI-s since October 1944. But before that I need to fix the vanilla SH3 serious and stupid fault. Guess that everybody knows that this powerful boat which can plunge into the abyss of the ocean as deep as 320 metes has an extremely fragile hull, dramatically vulnerable to depth charges. According to my experience her hull is much weaker than one of the VII-C type, which can dive only as deed as 280 or even less. So as the default properties of the game are ridiculous. Does anybody know what must be change in the game files to make the game more enjoyable and realistic? Thanks to all in advance

10-29-18, 08:32 AM	#6
Obltn Strand Commodore Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 614 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	In real life type xxi had serious construction flaws. It was built as blocks which were transported to docks for welding. Now if blocks won't fit perfectly (and they seldom do) welds are thinner than the actual preasure hull thus creating a weak point. Tolerance is usually mill or two. Less if we are talking about submarine construction... Perhaps the game simulates this..? __________________ Himmel, sukeltakaa!

10-29-18, 01:41 PM	#11
Jeff-Groves Village Idiot Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,319 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	It's your Game install. Adjust it to suit yourself. __________________ I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.

11-10-18, 09:31 AM	#13
Dirk Gently Bosun Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Norway Posts: 65 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	There's a setting in the XXI's zon file that makes it crush extremely fast when diving below max depth. It takes 50 points of damage per second where most subs have 2 points of damage per second. The hull itself has more hit points and more armor than any other sub in the game. EDIT: I'm doing this from memory (a decade) and I noticed someone sporting some different numbers up here so I might be off. But I remember it being so much higher that it baffled me. Last edited by Dirk Gently; 11-10-18 at 10:10 AM.

10-28-18, 04:11 PM	#2
Nicolas Commander Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Uruguay Posts: 453 Downloads: 194 Uploads: 4	You mean is too weak or too strong in the game? I don't know what files to change that, maybe with silent editor some files in the sub folder in sh3 or maybe zones.cfg. But if you want better realism you should download one of the mod packs.

10-28-18, 10:33 PM	#4
Nicolas Commander Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Uruguay Posts: 453 Downloads: 194 Uploads: 4	If i remember right the hitpoints are in the xxi subfolder, and part of the sub equipment are in zones.cfg, you can investigate in those folders, i think you will need silent editor for some files. I don't know anymore. Are you sure is that weak?, maybe you had bad luck with a too near depth charge.

10-29-18, 12:28 PM	#9
Nicolas Commander Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Uruguay Posts: 453 Downloads: 194 Uploads: 4	I was curious and opened some files with silent editor to see if there is something, and: In nss_uboat21.zon you have 'colisionableobject' a type 7c has 350 hitpoints and 21 has 450 7c armor 25 and xxi armor 28 The only weakness i saw was that crash speed, was 2 instead of 0.1 in the 7c meaning that if you are below crush depth you die pretty quickly. This is on nygm.

11-03-18, 05:52 AM	#12
FGamer1956 Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hi, Alex..if you you want dive deeper, then change in XXI.cfg from 450 to 700. The new depth ist max 370m. Dive slower after 300m ! greetings

11-14-18, 12:36 PM	#15
Dirk Gently Bosun Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Norway Posts: 65 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Yes and it's very simple. Download "Silent 3ditor", install it and open the the *.zon file in the Data\Submarine\{the sub you want to edit}\ One of the editable sections is called "ColisionableObject" and contains the following values; ArmorLevel = (Toughness of the hull) Hit_Points = (Hit points... duh) CrashDepth = (At what depth your hull start to take pressure damage) CrashSpeed = (How fast the hull accumulates damage) Rebound = (No idea but all subs seem to have the same value) IMPORTANT: CrashDepth in this file refers to "crush depth" and have nothing to do with the crash dive settings. As I already said, Type XXI already have the toughest hull and deepest crush depth. So set CrashSpeed to a lower number, for example 1,0 which deals 1 hp per second. Alternatively 0,1 which accumulates to 1hp per 10 seconds.