out of my depth - how can I detect and evade enemies in SH4?

Brett Sinclair · 12-26-17, 11:28 AM

Hi guys,
I switched over from SH5, and I was in for a surprise:
Destroyers are savage!
In SH5, I usually went down to more than 100 metres, rigged my U Boot for silent running and slowly edged away from the destroyers (taking a close look at the sonar cones on the map).
In SH4, I have the following problem: Having installed TFoTRS, I cannot see the visual or sonar ranges of enemy vessels on the map. Therefore, I cannot judge when to submerge, or dive deeper.
Furthermore, destroyers sometimes (after some modest time acceleration) appear right on top of me, even though my map is empty, bar a few distant sonar contacts.
What can I do?
Thanks.

Best,
Brett

p.s.:
It is very well possibly that I missed some obvious option, etc. Still trying to get used to the different menu and map structure.

THEBERBSTER · 12-26-17, 11:47 AM

Hi BS
Important to check that your radar icon is showing it is switched on and active when away from friendly ports.
Peter

Brett Sinclair · 12-26-17, 12:09 PM

Thank you!
I'll check next time; I'm not used to radar from the German U Boote.
However, it still does not solve my other problem:
I have no idea why and when I was deteced.

Best,
Brett

Hambone307 · 12-26-17, 12:35 PM

Some of the destroyers in SH4 have "elite" crews. Now, depending on what year you are in, can determine the frequency of encountering them. They are vicious. There are also some bugs in the programming that leads to destroyers with "super sensors" as I call them. Had my boat detected and attacked by a destroyer that was 15km away. Got hit with the first salvo from the guns and then first depth charge run ruined a new career.

So with that being said, welcome to SH4! Keep your lucky charm close at hand.

propbeanie · 12-26-17, 12:47 PM

... and that's the "problem" with FotRSU at this point in time with it being in beta status, in that you cannot set options that you'd like to use just yet. The original Fall of the Rising Sun v2 mod that FotRSU is built upon, is a mod that the old Aces of the Deep (AOTD) team used for their team gameplay. The DD and planes are absolutely bonkers in most parts of the game, able to see and hear a submarine from 20km, able to see through 60 foot thick steel walls and ocean thermal layers, leap tall buildings, and have such a strong skill set that they're able to drop a bomb on your periscope shear 9 times out of 10... I exaggerate a little of course... You get very little guidance or aids for evasion in the mod, other than radar, and even at that, not at the beginning, especially in some of the older boats. If you draw yourself a circle around your boat with the compass tool on the Navigation map, and drag that around with you as you travel, that's about the best that there is. The thing of it is, some can only see you from about 6k yds out, some from 12.5k yards out, so it's kind of hit and miss. For an example of what I'm talking about, refer to Rockin Robbins plane evasion procedure:

One thing to keep in mind if doing that procedure, is that in FotRSU, they can "see" you further out, so you'll need a bigger circle, and it oftentimes depends upon the weather and sea state... That whole Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks is very useful, as is THEBERBSTER's SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFO <... thread.

Brett Sinclair · 12-26-17, 01:47 PM

Thank you!
For the time being, I will revert back to the vanilla game then, until I have a better understanding of the game ('s tactics). If I understood you correctly, (some) AI units show a similar behaviour in TFoTRS 2.0!?
The articles linked will help me out for sure.

Best,
Brett

propbeanie · 12-26-17, 07:59 PM

Most of the "super mods" alter the AI in the game, some of them do so rather extensively. Part of the reason being, as you'll find, that some aspects of the game are way too easy, and it's child's play to "game" the game, and score some outrageous tonnage figures, and have nary a scratch in the sub's paint. Once you get used to things, you'll most likely want to up the difficulty. However, don't take the escorts in Stock any too lightly, cause they have been known to sink a sub or two... Game Fixes Only (THEBERBSTER's mix of Webster's mod is really good) would be a next logical step, and there are mods to add to that to ease you way into some difficulty. Next might be TMOwTw (Trigger Maru Overhauled with Training wheels), which is a customized version of Trigger Maru Overhauled (TMO), but with some of the difficulty dialed back.

All we gotta do now, is get Hambone307 to post again... 'Course, it ~does~ look like he's really had a "Wild Night In Bangkok" again!...

Hambone307 · 12-26-17, 10:16 PM

"all we gotta do is get Hambone307 to post again".... I know, I know... My avatar...

Armistead · 12-27-17, 01:52 AM

You'll get it, even with a hard AI like TMO, eventually you learn how to beat the AI all the time unless you make mistakes. The AI works on numerous factors, so you want to stack as many in your favor when you attack, sometimes u may want to track a few days waiting for rougher water, night, etc... One of the main things is to stay skinny to the nearest escort.

Brett Sinclair · 12-27-17, 09:49 AM

I guess so, but I will have to take my time. As of now, I feel like I can evade SH4's stock escorts by just playing well. Time for the next challenge then, I guess...
Then again, I love Silent Hunter for allowing me to roam around the seven seas looking for prey (and evading

aircraft), not the ultimate realism.

Best,
Brett

Red Devil · 12-27-17, 05:03 PM

It all depends on difficulty level. To my mind, unless you are suicidal, use NORMAL settings. I imagine this is as near to reality as you get, they rest is cannon fodder.

.... amd I just sprayed whisky all over my keyboard!!

Brett Sinclair · 12-27-17, 07:59 PM

So the AI are actually influenced by the difficulty setting chosen at the campaign start? I thought that option only controlled realism settings. Is there any way to change it later (in the harbor)?

Best,
Brett

p.s.:
That's not quite where it belongs

Red Devil · 12-29-17, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Sinclair

So the AI are actually influenced by the difficulty setting chosen at the campaign start? I thought that option only controlled realism settings. Is there any way to change it later (in the harbor)?

Best,
Brett

p.s.:
That's not quite where it belongs

hahah!! I drank it too fast and it hit the back of my throat - let us spray!!

12-26-17, 11:28 AM	#1
Brett Sinclair Loader Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Davy Jones’ Locker Posts: 89 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	out of my depth - how can I detect and evade enemies in SH4? Hi guys, I switched over from SH5, and I was in for a surprise: Destroyers are savage! In SH5, I usually went down to more than 100 metres, rigged my U Boot for silent running and slowly edged away from the destroyers (taking a close look at the sonar cones on the map). In SH4, I have the following problem: Having installed TFoTRS, I cannot see the visual or sonar ranges of enemy vessels on the map. Therefore, I cannot judge when to submerge, or dive deeper. Furthermore, destroyers sometimes (after some modest time acceleration) appear right on top of me, even though my map is empty, bar a few distant sonar contacts. What can I do? Thanks. Best, Brett p.s.: It is very well possibly that I missed some obvious option, etc. Still trying to get used to the different menu and map structure.

12-26-17, 11:47 AM	#2
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	Hi BS Important to check that your radar icon is showing it is switched on and active when away from friendly ports. Peter __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

12-26-17, 12:35 PM	#4
Hambone307 Planesman Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 188 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Some of the destroyers in SH4 have "elite" crews. Now, depending on what year you are in, can determine the frequency of encountering them. They are vicious. There are also some bugs in the programming that leads to destroyers with "super sensors" as I call them. Had my boat detected and attacked by a destroyer that was 15km away. Got hit with the first salvo from the guns and then first depth charge run ruined a new career. So with that being said, welcome to SH4! Keep your lucky charm close at hand. __________________ ____ I can't tell if I have found a rope or lost my horse.

12-26-17, 12:47 PM	#5
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,742 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	... and that's the "problem" with FotRSU at this point in time with it being in beta status, in that you cannot set options that you'd like to use just yet. The original Fall of the Rising Sun v2 mod that FotRSU is built upon, is a mod that the old Aces of the Deep (AOTD) team used for their team gameplay. The DD and planes are absolutely bonkers in most parts of the game, able to see and hear a submarine from 20km, able to see through 60 foot thick steel walls and ocean thermal layers, leap tall buildings, and have such a strong skill set that they're able to drop a bomb on your periscope shear 9 times out of 10... I exaggerate a little of course... You get very little guidance or aids for evasion in the mod, other than radar, and even at that, not at the beginning, especially in some of the older boats. If you draw yourself a circle around your boat with the compass tool on the Navigation map, and drag that around with you as you travel, that's about the best that there is. The thing of it is, some can only see you from about 6k yds out, some from 12.5k yards out, so it's kind of hit and miss. For an example of what I'm talking about, refer to Rockin Robbins plane evasion procedure: One thing to keep in mind if doing that procedure, is that in FotRSU, they can "see" you further out, so you'll need a bigger circle, and it oftentimes depends upon the weather and sea state... That whole Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks is very useful, as is THEBERBSTER's SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFO <... thread. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-26-17, 07:59 PM	#7
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,742 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Most of the "super mods" alter the AI in the game, some of them do so rather extensively. Part of the reason being, as you'll find, that some aspects of the game are way too easy, and it's child's play to "game" the game, and score some outrageous tonnage figures, and have nary a scratch in the sub's paint. Once you get used to things, you'll most likely want to up the difficulty. However, don't take the escorts in Stock any too lightly, cause they have been known to sink a sub or two... Game Fixes Only (THEBERBSTER's mix of Webster's mod is really good) would be a next logical step, and there are mods to add to that to ease you way into some difficulty. Next might be TMOwTw (Trigger Maru Overhauled with Training wheels), which is a customized version of Trigger Maru Overhauled (TMO), but with some of the difficulty dialed back. All we gotta do now, is get Hambone307 to post again... 'Course, it ~does~ look like he's really had a "Wild Night In Bangkok" again!... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna Last edited by propbeanie; 12-26-17 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Who did what?... wow, talk about confusing... sheesh

12-26-17, 12:09 PM	#3
Brett Sinclair Loader Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Davy Jones’ Locker Posts: 89 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Thank you! I'll check next time; I'm not used to radar from the German U Boote. However, it still does not solve my other problem: I have no idea why and when I was deteced. Best, Brett

12-26-17, 01:47 PM	#6
Brett Sinclair Loader Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Davy Jones’ Locker Posts: 89 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Thank you! For the time being, I will revert back to the vanilla game then, until I have a better understanding of the game ('s tactics). If I understood you correctly, (some) AI units show a similar behaviour in TFoTRS 2.0!? The articles linked will help me out for sure. Best, Brett

12-26-17, 10:16 PM	#8
Hambone307 Planesman Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 188 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	"all we gotta do is get Hambone307 to post again".... I know, I know... My avatar... __________________ ____ I can't tell if I have found a rope or lost my horse.

12-27-17, 01:52 AM	#9
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	You'll get it, even with a hard AI like TMO, eventually you learn how to beat the AI all the time unless you make mistakes. The AI works on numerous factors, so you want to stack as many in your favor when you attack, sometimes u may want to track a few days waiting for rougher water, night, etc... One of the main things is to stay skinny to the nearest escort. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

12-27-17, 09:49 AM	#10
Brett Sinclair Loader Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Davy Jones’ Locker Posts: 89 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I guess so, but I will have to take my time. As of now, I feel like I can evade SH4's stock escorts by just playing well. Time for the next challenge then, I guess... Then again, I love Silent Hunter for allowing me to roam around the seven seas looking for prey (and evadingaircraft), not the ultimate realism. Best, Brett

12-27-17, 05:03 PM	#11
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,515 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	It all depends on difficulty level. To my mind, unless you are suicidal, use NORMAL settings. I imagine this is as near to reality as you get, they rest is cannon fodder. .... amd I just sprayed whisky all over my keyboard!! __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

12-27-17, 07:59 PM	#12
Brett Sinclair Loader Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Davy Jones’ Locker Posts: 89 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	So the AI are actually influenced by the difficulty setting chosen at the campaign start? I thought that option only controlled realism settings. Is there any way to change it later (in the harbor)? Best, Brett p.s.: That's not quite where it belongs