Absolute n00b questions [again]

[VulcanRidr]

Hey all,


Couple of quick questions for the group. I have DW 1.04, DWX/RA 1.47, and LwAmi 3.11 installed on my desktop and laptop. (Thanks, @FPSChazley!). First question...Can RA and LwAmi be selected together? Or will that cause a singularity that will collapse my computer?


Second question. Presuming the answer to question #1 is a resounding "No!", what release is best/best for an absolute n00b to start with?I


I'm already questioning my life choices, starting with a sim that has over 600 pages of documentation. But I know I'm going to enjoy getting my ass kicked regularly.



--vr

[Kapitan]

600+ for a massive start enjoy reading

However i personally would always go for DWX RA mod for certain

[ET2SN]

To be honest about it, how tough would it be for you to install basic vanilla DW?
DW is a tough game to learn, anyway. You'll need to understand how to navigate and change depth and when to do them to get the best effect. You'll need to learn how to deploy your sensors and how to effectively track and classify contacts before selecting the right weapon to attack them.
Along the way, you'll need to learn how TMA works and when it falls apart.

Stock DW will give you a good foundation on how to play the game.

Think about this question for a minute..

If you're a sub skipper, how many torpedoes should you be able to evade in any given battle if you want to be a good skipper?


The answer is "zero". You're not supposed to be detected in the first place. Having to dodge a torpedo or sonobuoy means that you've already lost the battle.

The good news is that learning how to do all of this stuff is the fun part.
Stock DW is set up to teach you how to play the game. Use that.

LWAMI and RA add more platforms and countries. They also change the dynamics to give all the platforms a more equal chance. This is because LWAMI and RA were designed for veteran players who had already seen it all.

So, take some time and learn the basics from the stock game before you move up to LWAMI or RA.

[p7p8]

Originally Posted by VulcanRidr

Can RA and LwAmi be selected together?

Mods have different databases (all objects in game) and doctrines (algorithms for many aspects of game like torpedo behaviour) so it's not possible to run both mods in the same time.

Originally Posted by VulcanRidr

what release is best/best for an absolute n00b to start with?I

I think vanilla or LwAmi are best for learning because RA extends some game mechanics. Also most original missions and campaign are not compatibile with RA - only adapted campaigns from 688(i) or Sub Command + Red Storm Rising. Lwami is compatibile with vanilla missions.

Originally Posted by VulcanRidr

starting with a sim that has over 600 pages of documentation
--vr

You don't need to read all pages - many of them are for speciffic platform like FFG or MPA. If you want to play sub, you can read chapters for sub commander

If you're a sub skipper, how many torpedoes should you be able to evade in any given battle if you want to be a good skipper?


The answer is "zero". You're not supposed to be detected in the first place. Having to dodge a torpedo or sonobuoy means that you've already lost the battle.

It's not truth. In game sooner or later you will be detected by plane, helo or warship. Sometimes you need luck for not being detected and "luck" have own hidden limits. When you are detected - don't reload game, you need to know how to evade torpedoes if you wanna be good skipper.

My observations confirms that players without good knowledge how to evade torpedoes or how to "clear datum" are waste potential of own submarine. They don't understand that detection is not the same like identiffication so they usually plays whole in the water. Good example is FPSchazly - man who did great DW tutorials.
He is mostly single player DW gamer and in complex MP battles he's commanding is not so effective like other players, which plays often MP battles - sorry Chazz but it's truth :P (you are good in single player DW but in MP not so experienced like Ghostdog, Erik or me :P )

LWAMI and RA add more platforms and countries. They also change the dynamics to give all the platforms a more equal chance. This is because LWAMI and RA were designed for veteran players who had already seen it all.

Lwami uses only vanilla playable platforms but adds many countries/platforms for AI. RA adds many playable platforms and does NOT change dynamics to equal chances. It only makes russian platforms are not so "retard" like in vanilla (but some things in vanilla were better for russian subs)
RA also gives you more control over your torpedoes, or AI helos from your FFG. Also fixes dozens of vanilla bugs like decreased speed of missiles, wrong mast heights, wrong radar works etc.

In my opinion you should start with vanilla or Lwami (better with Lwami) but with option for switching mod to RA when you will learn basics

BTW: MP games are only with RA - nobody plays MP with Lwami or vanilla

[VulcanRidr]

Thanks for the advice, folks.

Originally Posted by ET2SN

To be honest about it, how tough would it be for you to install basic vanilla DW?

Since I have the Generic Mod Enabler installed with LwAmi, if I disable all of the mods, the way I understand it, the sim reverts back to vanilla. Is this correct?

If you're a sub skipper, how many torpedoes should you be able to evade in any given battle if you want to be a good skipper?

My first thought, even before I saw p6p8's response was "um, all of them?" Simply because in anything competitive, the other guy wants to be victorious as much as you do. I was going to say "win," but it is more than that. You could also substitute the word "survive" in a case like this.

Originally Posted by p6p8

I think vanilla or LwAmi are best for learning because RA extends some game mechanics. Also most original missions and campaign are not compatibile with RA

I think i will initially start training with LwAmi, as it seems to be "vanilla improved". If that gets to be too much, I will go back to straight vanilla, and once I build up some skills, I will try RA.


--vr

[ET2SN]

I have multiple versions of DW, RA, and LWAMI installed on my machine (Win10, 64 bit).
I don't play with the mod enabler because RA has a lot of mod files associated with each version.

I started out with the Strategy First direct download version of DW which is installed in my Program Files (X86) folder. I then copied the main DW folder out to my desktop, ran the RA or LWAMI installer, then renamed the copied main folder (DWLWAMI, DWRA142, DWRA1477, etc.) and finally moved the new main file directly into my C drive folder.

The Strat First version of DW comes with a program called LaunchDW.exe located in each DW main folder. I click on that in the version I want to use and select the top Launch option to start the game. This also updates the entries in my registry so I can just click the Start icon on my taskbar to play the version I selected. I have LWAMI and 5 or 6 versions of RA installed, which is over kill but, well, why not?

This isn't the most efficient use of hard drive space but I have a 1TB hard drive that mostly plays DW and Flight Sim 2002 so space isn't a huge concern.
And, best of all, it works.

One of the things I really like about DW (besides the fidelity of the over all game) is that you can develop your own tactics and play the game the way you want and its equally as valid as anyone else.
The way I play is fairly unique. I did this stuff for real from 1987 to 1993. I qualified submarines aboard the USS Barbel (SS580) when we were homeported in Sasebo Japan and then transferred to the USS Bremerton (SSN 698) in Pearl Harbor after the Barbel was de-commissioned. I guess you could say that the way I play the game is tainted by the real world.

What I was getting to with the torpedo dodging question is that you are now in charge of a multi billion dollar national asset and a crew of approx. 130 people. Don't forget that. Its hard to say "Sorry about that" 130 times when the ship is flooding.

Attack submarines can (should?) be thought of as sniper rifles. You're set up to make long range shots while staying concealed. Your game is ambush, not YOLO. That's just a pet peeve of mine when I watch YouTubers dodging torpedoes in Cold Waters. Yeah, its entertaining but dude, you've already lost the fight.

[ET2SN]

Learning the game with LWAMI should work well.
You'll have updated 3D models and more units represented. Just remember, LWAMI came about when the player community started to get bored with the stock game.

Your sonar displays have some "blinders" added to them. This will change some tactics, for example how you track contacts or use your towed array.

I can make arguments both for and against using LWAMI to learn the basic game, just stay aware of those blinders as you gain experience.

[VulcanRidr]

First, let me say thank you for your service.

Originally Posted by ET2SN

I have multiple versions of DW, RA, and LWAMI installed on my machine (Win10, 64 bit).

I'm one of those weird corner cases. I am playing on Unix (FreeBSD, specifically) under WINE. The nice part is that WINE rates DW as "Platinum," which means everything works. The other nice thing is that FreeBSD (or Linux, for that matter) doesn't use nearly the resources just for the operating system that Windows does.

I started out with the Strategy First direct download version of DW which is installed in my Program Files (X86) folder. I then copied the main DW folder out to my desktop, ran the RA or LWAMI installer, then renamed the copied main folder (DWLWAMI, DWRA142, DWRA1477, etc.) and finally moved the new main file directly into my C drive folder.

The Strat First version of DW comes with a program called LaunchDW.exe located in each DW main folder. I click on that in the version I want to use and select the top Launch option to start the game. This also updates the entries in my registry so I can just click the Start icon on my taskbar to play the version I selected. I have LWAMI and 5 or 6 versions of RA installed, which is over kill but, well, why not?

I just have the two CD version of the game that I bought (and forgot about) years ago. I think my CD set shipped with version 1.02 of DW.

This isn't the most efficient use of hard drive space but I have a 1TB hard drive that mostly plays DW and Flight Sim 2002 so space isn't a huge concern.
And, best of all, it works.

Meh, I do IT for a living (Unix/Linux system administrator, which is why I run FreeBSD on my desktop/laptop). Spindles are cheap. 3TB drives are less than $100. DW+RA plus DW+LwAmi is 3.9GB. You could fit almost 800 copies of that on a 3TB drive.

One of the things I really like about DW (besides the fidelity of the over all game) is that you can develop your own tactics and play the game the way you want and its equally as valid as anyone else.

I believe that is called "if it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid" rule...

The way I play is fairly unique. I did this stuff for real from 1987 to 1993. I qualified submarines aboard the USS Barbel (SS580) when we were homeported in Sasebo Japan and then transferred to the USS Bremerton (SSN 698) in Pearl Harbor after the Barbel was de-commissioned. I guess you could say that the way I play the game is tainted by the real world.

What I was getting to with the torpedo dodging question is that you are now in charge of a multi billion dollar national asset and a crew of approx. 130 people. Don't forget that. Its hard to say "Sorry about that" 130 times when the ship is flooding.

Attack submarines can (should?) be thought of as sniper rifles. You're set up to make long range shots while staying concealed. Your game is ambush, not YOLO. That's just a pet peeve of mine when I watch YouTubers dodging torpedoes in Cold Waters. Yeah, its entertaining but dude, you've already lost the fight.

I agree. I have watched some Cold Waters videos and I can't remember the dude's name, but every mission, he ends up getting detected and fired upon. I understand the whole time sensitive thing, but once you get the call of "torpedo in the water!", you go from hunter to hunted. Obviously, I don't have the depth of experience that you do, I was a SATCOM puke in the Army. But subs and aircraft have always fascinated me. It sounds like we are about the same age. I was in from '84 - '92.



And I like the analogy of sub combat being the same as a sniper. That is even more accurate than my personal one of sub combat being like a mugging.

[ET2SN]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we can relate to a lot of stuff. Especially back in '92 and '93.

"Geez, I've been doing this long enough and I could do another 14 years standing on my hands. All they have to do is let me re-enlist and... Oh. Maybe not. "



BTW, this had nothing to do with Bill Clinton. If anything, Bill kept the Seawolf program alive and authorized the third hull (USS Jimmy Carter).
I had been angling to go to a 637 stretch (Sturgeon class) after we de-commed the Barbel but by then the entire class was slated for scrapping.
When my time was starting to run out on the Bremerton, I was playing around with the idea of re-upping and staying on sea duty or going to shore duty as an instructor in one of the ET schools.
Yeah. There was no way to stay on sea duty, there were no new ETs in the training pipeline to instruct, and what was that you were saying about re-enlisting?

I knew guys who re-upped early and stayed in touch with them after I got out. It got as nasty as I feared it would get so I didn't cry into my beer a lot.

[p7p8]

DW is NOT game based on real events - all is hypothetical.
And hypothetical you can be detected sooner or later and better is to know how to act than suspects "it willnever happen"

I know most of "submariners" thougtt "i won't be detected" but.. in every NATO maneveurs all sub or warship is detected and succesfully engaded many times. For example in "Cold Rsponse" or "Dynamic Mongoose" excercies even Seawolf class was detected and succesfully engages in last years.

You can pretedn "you won't be detected" and panick when "you will" or you can train "what to do" when you are detected and attacked. Choice is yours.

And don't forget it's only game so political "binds" like in real - havent matters in fictional scenarios.