Google collides with Huawei, intentionally

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48330310

This must impact on any ambition to dominate over Samsung in the smartphone and tablet segment, yes - but it could backfire against Google as well.

In the short term, this could be very damaging for Huawei in the West.
Smartphone shoppers would not want an Android phone that lacked access to Google's Play Store, its virtual assistant or security updates, assuming these are among the services that would be pulled.
Longer term, though, this might give smartphone vendors in general a reason to seriously consider the need for a viable alternative to Google's operating system, particularly at a time the search giant is trying to push its own Pixel brand at their expense.
As far as Huawei is concerned, it appears to have prepared for the eventuality of being cut off from American know-how.
Its smartphones are already powered by its own proprietary processors, and earlier this year its consumer devices chief told German newspaper Die Welt that "we have prepared out own operating systems - that's our plan B".
Even so, this move could knock its ambition to overtake Samsung and become the bestselling smartphone brand in 2020 seriously off course.

I like my P9 lite. Unbeatable price at its time, excellent quality, better-than-Android EMUI, and no blocking of storage capacity by Samsung's impetinent loads and loads of undeletable bloatware garbage - it had only few programs installed, and most of them were easy to delete forever. Only some Google "services" were not. Had two samsung tablets, and will never buy Samsung again.

[Gerald]

I have had Huawei before, but had problems with the software so I switched to Samsung...so far so good.

[Catfish]

Also have an older Huawei with an excellent Leica camera, better than the new iphone's I believe. It is also faster and more fuzz free than Samsung. Also the S8 had an always-on function, even if you switched it to 'off'.

From the article:
"The move comes after the Trump administration added Huawei to a list of companies that American firms cannot trade with unless they have a licence."

Ah Huawei is on the Trump 'blacklist'. Trump's decrete justified by "national emergency"?
Good old blackmailing and trying to keep up the hegemony, are you? As far as i read there is still no evidence of spying by Huawei, but there is a lot about spying by Google and US companies.

So the US government telling me what i may use or not?
From ad placements tailored to your habits and showing only what they want you to see, to closely follow everything you do, the wet dream for exploitation and surveillance. And now the US government interferes with free business, isn't that.. [gasp] socialism?

Having only one service worldwide for almost all smartphone apps (sans Apple) sucks already big time.
Well i guess we have to get rid of Google sooner or later anyway. They never were the good guys but their methods stink to high heavens.

[Skybird]

The G5 network equipment thing is about espionage options and scenarios to disrupt infrastructure in case of conflicts. The Android thing now is mostly "just" economic warfare. Huawei threatens to overtake not just Samsung, but Apple, an American comany, has all reason to be worried as well. The consumer products of Huawei simply are good - they were the subcontractor supplying other companies with components, so it is no wonder where their expertise is coming from.


And yes, the camera in the P9lite already is damn good, too. It was one of the reasons why I got this phone, beside battery time and display quality. Telephone and surfing are the last things I do with it.


My neighbour has some samsung phone. He is cursing all the time about "all the garbage getting in my way" and that "I cannot get rid of it, it keeps coming back". Rooting, yes, but that is not the way that should be necessary, and not everybody knows how to do it, or is interested to do it.


The prices of flagship models are just insane. I cannot beleive that there are people spending them. I would not , even if I were a multi millionaire. Its just not worth it for me. 200-250 Euros maximum, and not every two years, but I expect a lifetime of at least 5-8 years.


Have still two old cellphones by Samsung, old-fashion, no smartness in them. These were very fine and the batteries still hold marvellous capacity after ten years or so. Smasung can do very good stuff - if they want.

[ikalugin]

I think it is the other way round, because most apps and websites use end to end encryption.

This means that you need control over the devices (and services ie google) not the networks as even if you could do MITM attack via network you would be stuck with encryption.

[Jimbuna]

Google taking the side that suits it most.

[HunterICX]

After I'd think about 3 mid range samsungs I changed to my Huawei P8lite because of problems with the Samsungs (Battery failures and once the Display just died for no reason) My experience with the Huawei P8 lite which is now going for it's 4th year is with zero problems. Great phone, good camera and the battery is still going strong.

Also am a user that won't spend more then around 200€ on a phone, Samsung is done for me as their mid range stuff is not reliable in my experience with it and I'd never get an apple product ever.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I think it is the other way round, because most apps and websites use end to end encryption.

This means that you need control over the devices (and services ie google) not the networks as even if you could do MITM attack via network you would be stuck with encryption.

Well, my technical understanding of it is limited and more or less equals only what is described in this piece abiout the technical background and implications. There seems to be a habit in Europe to base the assessment of the risk for 5G on outdated technical understanding.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48035802


I cautiously tend to agree with the American position here. They seek their economic advanatge by bullying Huawei, yes, but their technical concerns imo also sound valid.

[Catfish]

When the US have a problem with 5G why does Google stop letting certain android phones use their app store system by a national governmental decision. Something does not match here.
And people will think twice now before buying anything based on Google, that can be rendered inoperable or be stolen from you anytime.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Google taking the side that suits it most.

All said.

Regarding Google onrunning on hardware:
"Companies have essentially been forced into this deal. The vast majority of Android apps are distributed through the Google Play Store — and many of those apps rely on Google Play services to function.

Abandoning Google would mean abandoning the Play Store, which can mean shipping a device without Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, and so on. Device makers would have to rely on an alternative app store and convince developers to distribute their apps on it, and in many cases rework those apps to function without Google services, too.

This was something the European Commission saw as a big problem. And as part of its $5 billion ruling fining Google for “illegal practices” with Android, it required that Google stop placing this exclusivity arrangement on its partners. Google, the commission wrote, denied users “access to further innovation and smart mobile devices based on alternative versions of the Android operating system” and “closed off an important channel for competitors to introduce apps and services” in the process."

We’ve never seen what Samsung, Motorola, Sony, HTC, LG, Huawei and so on would do on an Android phone limited by Google services. Now, we might.

[Catfish]

Ok now the cut-off has been postponed for 90 days..
Because the whole US midwest works with Huawei devices, and sent a clear note to Mr. Trump

Apart from that it is not about 5G, it is all about 'America first'. And when Huawei pays its "licence" just to avoid all this fuzz the Potus can have a photograph of himself grinning and saying "See how great i am!" once more.

I seriously think it is not only Trump who completely underestimates China.
Huawei as Xiaomi could build any hardware themselves, and an own App store. Downside is that a lot of 'independent' Apps are interconneected and only work with Google apps like Youtube, GoogleDrive, G. Play Music, G.Play Films, Duo, Fotos, Google Plus, G. Play books, G. play games, Gboard and so on. But the latter is the real scary thing. There is only one Android 'App store' called Google Play, and no competition. Proprietary, exclusive, and completely hegemonial.
After this stunt some will probably search for an alternative.. and it will not be the iPhone or Apple's own AppStore.

[Skybird]

Huawei takes anothe rbroadside, fully aimed below the waterline, and it could easily show to be even more damaging than the Android ban.



https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48363772


This whole thing is extrenely coplicate dmatter, imo. It is part of an ordinary trade war, yes, but that is only half the truth. The Chinese are known violators of copyright contracts and have a repuation of dealing trade policy issues exytrenely unfair and biased tot heir own advanatge. Huawei is formally a private enterprise that is advcertising with its independence form the state and govenrment, but in realityx it is quite strictly influenced by the Chiense government via informal channels. The uS has choosen Huawei as a key target for it soffensive becasue of its flagship statuds, it already started with the arrest of the daughter of the company founder. The aim in dealing with Huawei imo is not just raising pressure in Trumps usual trade war, but indeed to drestroy Huawei as a thgreatrening compeitior on the market that is about to overtake Samsung, Apple anyway, and become the globla number one. It also is to deliver the Chinese a serious blow as penalty for their murky trade policies derrangements and their ignorrance for intellectuala property rights, an issue the Europeans so far have done nothing serious about, at their own cost. All the blackmailed knowledge transfer so far has run for free, more or less, for the Chinese. I thuink it is very high time to confront the Chinese over these polcies of theirs.


Thats why I cannot one-sidedly condemn the American moves here. I regret the likely fall of Huawei, which seems to be heading to become a smaller company now, only present on the Chinese market in the future, and their past role in bringing massive movement into the high price segment of smartphones was a welcomed grounding of things and probbaly contributed to the sakle sproblems of Apple, which I welcome since the overpriced hype around Apple is in my book pure insanity, and almost religious cult. Still, despite the quality of Huawei smartphones, the assassination of an unwanted and leading competitor in the network equipment business, and their wanted challenge to the bloatware deviuces of Samsung, I must sympathise with the American confrontaiton of the Chinese over the mentioned many issues. The Europeans obviously do not have the guts to do it.


Just that America is not invulnerable to retaliation. But as a key article of the BBC I think yesterday said, the likely retaliation over stopping trade with rare earths, as has been practiced by China already in 2010 against Japan, is unlikely to bite, because while it is true that china dominates the world market for these by almost 90%, this domninance is not due to owning all rare earths of the globe (China owns close to just 40% of the global known reserves), but due to the Chiense lead in mining them, the rest of the world is said to be 15 years behind in building according capacities. South America and also the US themselves own large rsetrves of rare earths, too. The one group that does not sit in any of the available rescue boats here, is once again Europe. And Trump probably was told that, and started grinning over it.



Also, with the current domestic currency and credit problems in China, its option to retaliate on fiscal markets may be currently limited. But I am not certain what is going on there, I find it extremely diffcult to gain trustworthy information on the interior financial situation in China. Stockmarkets certainly signal not too much trust currently. News on the credit situation in China often seem to be infleunced by ideological claims and wishful thinking: Chinese fincances must fumble becasue they should fumble because that would weaken China and strengthen strategic Western positions (at the price of wreaking havoc on stockmarkets).



Anyway, ARM stopy dealing with Huawei, thats the news of the day and it means even bigger problems for Huawei.



Lesson to be learned: open license software should be helped to get a big revival and Europoe must learn the importance of putting utmost priority on raising its own IT key components industry independent from US patents and copyrights. The conclusion must be not to deepen the according cooperation with the US, but to untangle ties in this key segment of industry. Else the US can blackmail Europe any time by the same legal ways it now strangles Huawei with.



European-Us friendship must be seen with much less enthusiasm and more cool calculating realism. And no, I do not think the future looks convincingly bright, with Eurooe sitting on the shorter end of the seesaw - it allowed to trail too far behind in key future industries and high tech departments. I do not see how that lead of the US can be caught up with during my remaining lifetime.

[Catfish]

I think it is too early for the US to cut the ties with China, while in the same time aggravating people all over the world. Including own US companies, and allied ones like in the UK. A loss of jobs in the UK will maybe generate more in the US alright.

But the US run more or less on borrowed money from China, and a lot of US electronic devices are manufactured and meanwhile invented there. As i said Huawei or Xiaomi can easily build those chips themselves, which will of course take time and disrupt further international trade.

One retaliation from China could be closing the Apple plants in China, along with reducing bulk resources export. And maybe this will generate US jobs

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translat..._10745636.html

[Catfish]

"We know very little about Huawei, hence the mistrust of the United States. For a long time, the company was intransparent and closed, "says Nadine Godehardt, China expert at the Berlin-based political think-tank Stiftung Wissenschaft und Politik (SWP). But she also says, "From a Chinese perspective, Huawei is clearly a private company."

I guess from US perspective Apple or Google are also private companies.
Who do exactly what their government tells them

And the reason for it all:
https://api.ctia.org/wp-content/uplo...onomy_2018.pdf

[stevemacre1]

Samsung Sucks, especially for the battery and tons of bloatware that are not easily to get rid of.