SH4 Mod Wishlist-Community Input Appreciated

ReallyDedPoet · 04-02-14, 10:10 AM

Hi folks,

I put in another thread that I have been reading Thunder Below!: The USS Barb Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War II. Here

It has renewed my interest in SH4 and the Pacific Theatre. I am also working on a very basic ( not celestial navigation or anything like that ) Real Navigation Mod ( and I realize that some have been released here before ) that I plan to release soon. I have really enjoyed this in SH5, though with 4 it will be different as the game mechanics are not the same.

I realize SH4 is several years old and much has been done to make her the great sim that she is today. But I am curious, what would folks still like to see added or modified?

There may even be some mods that have never been posted here at SUBSIM that folks can post links for.

----------------------

So two part question:

- What else would you like to see modded in the game?
- Are there any mods that folks are aware of that have not been posted here at SUBSIM?

Thanks

See post #2 for a summary of the feedback given. It will be updated very soon.

ReallyDedPoet · 04-02-14, 10:13 AM

Thread Summary, Version 1.1

It certainly has been interesting ( and much appreciated ) to read all of the various feedback these past few weeks. Again, hats off to all of those great modders, and those who have created some great applications for SH4 that have helped make it a great sim despite its various shortcomings. I salute you all.

Most of the information given has been regarding additional modding to the game. No big surprise regarding mods not posted here at SUBSIM that folks were not aware of. I did a bit of looking around and for the most part did not find much. The following is a summary of the feedback received. Along with summarizing the various information, in some cases I cut and pasted directly from posts when it made sense. In the end this whole thread belongs to the community anyway, it is your feedback :-). Also if something is in the wrong place-makes sense in another section, please let me know I can move it.

Where to go from here, I don't know? But I do know that there is not another PTO sim on the horizon, so if something new is to happen, it looks
like it will need to be with SH4. The key I think will be the assembly code and finding someone who has an interest in SH4 to tackle it as it will be a huge undertaking ( as DW mentioned ), there would be many here willing to help out.

-------

Ships-Aircraft

- Ships\aircraft: there are a number of small mods that add these to the game, however there is a need to compile all of these into one single mod.
- Related to the above, tater quite a while ago had started this mod: Here. A Japanese Merchant Marine Mod, but it was not completed, this would be a great piece of work to have in the game. Many here are more than likey aware of iambecimelife's Merchant Fleet Mod for SH3: http://http://www.subsim.com/radioro...0741&highlight

-------

Assembly-Code Related ( the below is related to things that the game was not intended to do ).

- Truly separated engine mod. Related, individually controlled port and starboard engine-screws ( quicker turning maneuvers ).
- Truly separated scope mod. Currently when one is both are. * Possible fix would be making it indestructible.
- Current rudder is destructible, a mod making it indestructible. * One member did a fix for this:
http://http://www.subsim.com/radioro...0&postcount=18
- Individually controlled forward and rear dive planes.
- Sniper accuracy of enemy gunners in the game needs to be gone. They only looked at it from the point of how much penalty you would pay in some situations to add to the immersion or suspense or "danger factor" the player feels and never gave accuracy or realistic gun usage a thought. Hence the game sending a DD in from 8000m away and goes straight on top of your position to attack you even though you are submerged and position is undetected on silent running.
- Enemy ships spotting you from unrealistic distances, knowing your exact speed, location and direction. Again, it seems developers
may have done this to up the " danger factor " versus realistic play and possibly making the game boring.
- Tied to the previous is the height-angle in which enemy ships shoot. Battleships being a good example, at best they should be limited to a horizontal shot. A complete overhaul of range detection, gun accuracy, effective gun range, and elevation limits, as well as looking over the hit points of shells should be done.
- A fix to make the flags and signal lights to stop working when a ship is registers as sunk. Related, flags flowing in the
same direction as smoke.
- Stadimeter needs a complete reworking, existing height factors are inaccurate. Current observatons with can be off from a few yards to one hundred yards depending
on when readings are taken ( target close-far from the sub ). Related, the resolution-ratio you are using in game affects what you see though the scopes ( eyes of the sub ). What you see can be different in size compared to someone who plays the game at a different resolution/aspect ratio. Without having a target show equally in size to ALL players, there's no way using the Periscope Telemeter Divisions will give you an accurate measurement (a function that was commonly used in range estimates). Mods have fixed this to a degree, but the true fix would have the game figure this out
regardless of the ratio-resolution.

-------

Modelling

- Destructible buildings. Related, bombardment missions, including land artillery. * Fluckley did this.
- 3D view of the engine room.
- Better instrumentation in the boats, an emphasis on precision this eliminating trying several times to
execute a command. For example the inclinometers at the diving planes stations. Some work, some don't and
some boats don't have any.
- LA Sub that works with TMO\RSRDC and Traveller's Mod, currently one that exists works is for RFB\RSRDC.
- Similar, Nautilus Class Submarine or a Collins Class.
- Argonaut fully modeled to full size with the two 6" guns.
- Rangefinders on the Yamamoto Mod.

-------

Mods that build on existing work- Misc.

- Opersation Monsoon, The conning tower upgrade bug that reportedly has not been fixed. Also the sinking problems with the stock SH4 merchants. It can take hours for a hog islander to sink while it only takes a few minutes for a MFM import to sink.
- U-boat and Fleetboats operations in the same game, a completely open ATO-PTO.
- Japanese Campaign was started by cyberman47.
- Many left over SH3 files in SH4 ( often making SH4 files both confusing and cumbersome ), there is a need to strip down the game, so files that only pertain to
the PTO. 1.5 further complicated things ( though it did being some PTO enhancements ) adding more ATO files. It may be better to go back to 1.4.
- The only long term solution would be to clean up this game first. Someone should strip it down to a bare minimum so that mods can start with a basically empty game. A minimal modding platform.
- The ability for AA gun stations to engage ships, and for the main deck gun to be able to engage aircraft. More often than not
when the deck gun was in action against a ship the AA gunners were raking the ship as well (the enemy fires theirs at you), this should also have
the effect of suppressing the return fire on smaller ships and from manned gun stations (not turrets).
- Related to the previous, why not put the position keeper in the deck gun sight, the uzo works well for range finding with manual targeting turned off also a bearing compass would be nice.
- Logbook or notepad for recording events within the game. There was a mod for this back in the early days that brought a resemblance of
a log, but could not find it.

-----------

Gameplay-Graphics

- An after death option. Final disposition of you career, medals, log record.
- More patchy weather, ie squalls, sun breaks in the rain.
- Random engine failures, leaking pumps, blown pistons, leaking shaft-seals and fogged up scopes. Longer repair times. Premature
torpedo failures.
- Normal working air search radar. Current one does not have to be raised.

-----------

I did not bother to add applications-tools yet. I had originally planned to do this and may at a later date.

Also, as the game has been around for several years, it may be worth to create a Post Your SH4 Installed Mods Thread.

04-02-14, 11:22 AM

I think it would be great to have one mod that just adds all the new ships and aircraft to the game that the modders have added over the years.

many are part of larger mods but for those who like to play the basic stock game or with limited mods, it would be a very desirable new added content mod.

I like to think of the best mods as a buffet line where you take what you like and plug it in without it being bundled with increased difficulty. that's where I see some mods lose a little of what could be greater mass appeal is if you don't force game style changes to go along with it.

as to something new for a mod, I see a true separated engines mod and a true separated scopes mod so they don't always get destroyed together as one. for instance if fired upon after being spotted, you lose one scope and you lose both even if the other isn't extended

then the engines are the same, lose one lose both. maybe an indestructible obs scope would be a good solution?

something of personal frustration to me is the rudder being destroyed, I would love an indestructible rudder mod so the damage you receive affects the engines only.

Hitman · 04-02-14, 12:00 PM

Yes I agree with Webster, what is needed is the equivalent of the MFM for SH3.

The project was actually started long ago by Tater, it was called Japanese merchant fleet IIRC, and I even contributed with some 3D models I kitbashed for it (Must see if I still have them backed up somewhere after my terrible HDD crash from some years ago). Sadly, it was abandoned later but I know there was a beta, I had access to it but it got lost.

Snarf · 04-02-14, 12:15 PM

Speaking of the Barb I would really like to see 5" rocket mounts

along with destroyable buildings.

ReallyDedPoet · 04-02-14, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webster

I think it would be great to have one mod that just adds all the new ships and aircraft to the game that the modders have added over the years.
many are part of larger mods but for those who like to play the basic stock game or with limited mods, it would be a very desirable new added content mod.

Yes, I agree. Be interesting to locate that beta Hitman mentioned. Seems to me I saw something similar.

Quote:

I like to think of the best mods as a buffet line where you take what you like and plug it in without it being bundled with increased difficulty.

I have done this many times for my own personal mods

Quote:

as to something new for a mod, I see a true separated engines mod and a true separated scopes mod so they don't always get destroyed together as one. for instance if fired upon after being spotted, you lose one scope and you lose both even if the other isn't extended

then the engines are the same, lose one lose both. maybe an indestructible obs scope would be a good solution?

Sounds interesting.

Quote:

something of personal frustration to me is the rudder being destroyed, I would love an indestructible rudder mod so the damage you receive affects the engines only.

As does this one

------------------

One thing that was started but never finished was Captain America's Officer's Quarter Interior: Here

merc4ulfate · 04-02-14, 01:44 PM

I would love to have individually control forward and rear planes. I would also love to have port and starboard engines and screws individually controlled for quicker turning manuvers.

Random equiptment failures would certainly create more realism in the game. It happened in real life so why not in the game I say? I have read plenty of patrol reports where everything from leaking pumps, blown pistons, leaking shaft seals and constantly fogged up scopes were the rule of the day.

I forget which captain but I read one report where the periscope could only be used at 5 second intervals due to a fogging issue. They had to keep lowering and raising it to look for any length of time.

I wouldn't mind a 3d view of the engine room with the mains ... especially if it had a girdle as a valve spring for the pumps.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
Traveller Mod v1.7 for OM 7.20

Admiral Halsey · 04-02-14, 02:07 PM

I wish someone would make the LA Sub that works with RFB+RSRD into one that works with TMO+RSRD+Travellers mod.

Snarf · 04-02-14, 02:29 PM

Another one I could think of would be picking up enemy survivors from ships and/or aircraft, It was fairly common to take a prisoner and extract valuable information.

To reiterate though, destroyable buildings would be a great one along with bombardment missions and especially destroyable land artillery. I really enjoyed hearing about Fluckey's various bombardment attacks.

TheDarkWraith · 04-02-14, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

I would love to have individually control forward and rear planes. I would also love to have port and starboard engines and screws individually controlled for quicker turning manuvers.

This would be very hard to do unless you know assembly. I made them both available for SH5 but it wasn't easy to do.

Admiral Halsey · 04-02-14, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

This would be very hard to do unless you know assembly. I made them both available for SH5 but it wasn't easy to do.

Assembly code?

ReallyDedPoet · 04-02-14, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

This would be very hard to do unless you know assembly. I made them both available for SH5 but it wasn't easy to do.

And I think this will be key in taking SH4 to the fullest possible extent.

TheDarkWraith · 04-02-14, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReallyDedPoet

And I think this will be key in taking SH4 to the fullest possible extent.

It's the only way you are going to be able to make SH4 do things it was never meant to do. There's just no other way around it

Bite the bullet and start REing it. Depending on your skill it will take you around 2-5 years

Or you can move on to something that has a better game engine, has much more flexibility and capability, and currently offers many of the things you are wanting. The choice is yours.

ReallyDedPoet · 04-02-14, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

It's the only way you are going to be able to make SH4 do things it was never meant to do. There's just no other way around it

Bite the bullet and start REing it. Depending on your skill it will take you around 2-5 years

Or you can move on to something that has a better game engine, has much more flexibility and capability, and currently offers many of the things you are wanting. The choice is yours.

I want the best of both worlds

The Pacific Campaign is a compelling one, and SH4 has a lot to offer currently. There are many mods in all areas to pick and choose from, I just think it needs a reset. And part of that would be what you are talking about and I agree it sounds like that would take some time.

Having said that there is a lot ( as indicated above ) that can still be done with the game as it currently exists. Specifically around adding more ships to the game and some work in opening up the sub. That is an area that needs further work. I would like to see those things being worked on now and in the meantime hopefully having some in the community explore stuff like the assembly code. It may even be someone who is not even a member now but comes onto the scene.

I am enjoying SH5, I have had it since it first came out, bugs and all

The game now as it stands is a night and day to what it once was and it seems new things are being discovered every day.

- Increase render distance of units.
- Adjustable dive planes.

^^^ Just to name a couple of the latest. Nice job by the way

So I will continue to follow it's progress and play it, at the same time continuing to have SH4 on the go.

TheDarkWraith · 04-02-14, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReallyDedPoet

I want the best of both worlds

The Pacific Campaign is a compelling one, and SH4 has a lot to offer currently. There are many mods in all areas to pick and choose from, I just think it needs a reset. And part of that would be what you are talking about and I agree it sounds like that would take some time.

So what's stopping you from leading the charge and starting the REing of SH4? Every new beginning starts from something small

You say you don't know how or lack the skill? Now seems like a great time to learn something new. Every discovery you make and share with others has the potential to lead to more discoveries by others doing the same thing.

Don't fear the unknown, embrace it with open arms

The more people you can get working on your RE project then, theoretically, the faster the job will get done. It takes just one person to stand up, to speak out, to take charge...to inspire others to do the same.

04-02-14, 10:10 AM	#1
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The one and only East Coast Posts: 10,775 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	SH4 Mod Wishlist-Community Input Appreciated Hi folks, I put in another thread that I have been reading Thunder Below!: The USS Barb Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War II. Here It has renewed my interest in SH4 and the Pacific Theatre. I am also working on a very basic ( not celestial navigation or anything like that ) Real Navigation Mod ( and I realize that some have been released here before ) that I plan to release soon. I have really enjoyed this in SH5, though with 4 it will be different as the game mechanics are not the same. I realize SH4 is several years old and much has been done to make her the great sim that she is today. But I am curious, what would folks still like to see added or modified? There may even be some mods that have never been posted here at SUBSIM that folks can post links for. ---------------------- So two part question: - What else would you like to see modded in the game? - Are there any mods that folks are aware of that have not been posted here at SUBSIM? Thanks See post #2 for a summary of the feedback given. It will be updated very soon. __________________ Back in the Day Last edited by ReallyDedPoet; 04-20-14 at 07:22 PM.

04-02-14, 12:00 PM	#4
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,099 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Yes I agree with Webster, what is needed is the equivalent of the MFM for SH3. The project was actually started long ago by Tater, it was called Japanese merchant fleet IIRC, and I even contributed with some 3D models I kitbashed for it (Must see if I still have them backed up somewhere after my terrible HDD crash from some years ago). Sadly, it was abandoned later but I know there was a beta, I had access to it but it got lost. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

04-02-14, 12:15 PM	#5
Snarf Officer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: USS Tuna out of Pearl Harbor Posts: 243 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 10	Speaking of the Barb I would really like to see 5" rocket mounts along with destroyable buildings. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -David Farragut (probably repeated by many WWII sub skippers)

04-02-14, 01:44 PM	#7
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I would love to have individually control forward and rear planes. I would also love to have port and starboard engines and screws individually controlled for quicker turning manuvers. Random equiptment failures would certainly create more realism in the game. It happened in real life so why not in the game I say? I have read plenty of patrol reports where everything from leaking pumps, blown pistons, leaking shaft seals and constantly fogged up scopes were the rule of the day. I forget which captain but I read one report where the periscope could only be used at 5 second intervals due to a fogging issue. They had to keep lowering and raising it to look for any length of time. I wouldn't mind a 3d view of the engine room with the mains ... especially if it had a girdle as a valve spring for the pumps. Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 OpsMonsun_V705 OMv705_to_V720 OMv720_Patch5 Traveller Mod v1.7 for OM 7.20 __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍 Last edited by merc4ulfate; 04-02-14 at 02:36 PM.

04-02-14, 02:29 PM	#9
Snarf Officer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: USS Tuna out of Pearl Harbor Posts: 243 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 10	Another one I could think of would be picking up enemy survivors from ships and/or aircraft, It was fairly common to take a prisoner and extract valuable information. To reiterate though, destroyable buildings would be a great one along with bombardment missions and especially destroyable land artillery. I really enjoyed hearing about Fluckey's various bombardment attacks. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -David Farragut (probably repeated by many WWII sub skippers)

04-02-14, 10:13 AM	#2
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The one and only East Coast Posts: 10,775 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Thread Summary, Version 1.1 It certainly has been interesting ( and much appreciated ) to read all of the various feedback these past few weeks. Again, hats off to all of those great modders, and those who have created some great applications for SH4 that have helped make it a great sim despite its various shortcomings. I salute you all. Most of the information given has been regarding additional modding to the game. No big surprise regarding mods not posted here at SUBSIM that folks were not aware of. I did a bit of looking around and for the most part did not find much. The following is a summary of the feedback received. Along with summarizing the various information, in some cases I cut and pasted directly from posts when it made sense. In the end this whole thread belongs to the community anyway, it is your feedback :-). Also if something is in the wrong place-makes sense in another section, please let me know I can move it. Where to go from here, I don't know? But I do know that there is not another PTO sim on the horizon, so if something new is to happen, it looks like it will need to be with SH4. The key I think will be the assembly code and finding someone who has an interest in SH4 to tackle it as it will be a huge undertaking ( as DW mentioned ), there would be many here willing to help out. ------- Ships-Aircraft - Ships\aircraft: there are a number of small mods that add these to the game, however there is a need to compile all of these into one single mod. - Related to the above, tater quite a while ago had started this mod: Here. A Japanese Merchant Marine Mod, but it was not completed, this would be a great piece of work to have in the game. Many here are more than likey aware of iambecimelife's Merchant Fleet Mod for SH3: http://http://www.subsim.com/radioro...0741&highlight ------- Assembly-Code Related ( the below is related to things that the game was not intended to do ). - Truly separated engine mod. Related, individually controlled port and starboard engine-screws ( quicker turning maneuvers ). - Truly separated scope mod. Currently when one is both are. * Possible fix would be making it indestructible. - Current rudder is destructible, a mod making it indestructible. * One member did a fix for this: http://http://www.subsim.com/radioro...0&postcount=18 - Individually controlled forward and rear dive planes. - Sniper accuracy of enemy gunners in the game needs to be gone. They only looked at it from the point of how much penalty you would pay in some situations to add to the immersion or suspense or "danger factor" the player feels and never gave accuracy or realistic gun usage a thought. Hence the game sending a DD in from 8000m away and goes straight on top of your position to attack you even though you are submerged and position is undetected on silent running. - Enemy ships spotting you from unrealistic distances, knowing your exact speed, location and direction. Again, it seems developers may have done this to up the " danger factor " versus realistic play and possibly making the game boring. - Tied to the previous is the height-angle in which enemy ships shoot. Battleships being a good example, at best they should be limited to a horizontal shot. A complete overhaul of range detection, gun accuracy, effective gun range, and elevation limits, as well as looking over the hit points of shells should be done. - A fix to make the flags and signal lights to stop working when a ship is registers as sunk. Related, flags flowing in the same direction as smoke. - Stadimeter needs a complete reworking, existing height factors are inaccurate. Current observatons with can be off from a few yards to one hundred yards depending on when readings are taken ( target close-far from the sub ). Related, the resolution-ratio you are using in game affects what you see though the scopes ( eyes of the sub ). What you see can be different in size compared to someone who plays the game at a different resolution/aspect ratio. Without having a target show equally in size to ALL players, there's no way using the Periscope Telemeter Divisions will give you an accurate measurement (a function that was commonly used in range estimates). Mods have fixed this to a degree, but the true fix would have the game figure this out regardless of the ratio-resolution. ------- Modelling - Destructible buildings. Related, bombardment missions, including land artillery. * Fluckley did this. - 3D view of the engine room. - Better instrumentation in the boats, an emphasis on precision this eliminating trying several times to execute a command. For example the inclinometers at the diving planes stations. Some work, some don't and some boats don't have any. - LA Sub that works with TMO\RSRDC and Traveller's Mod, currently one that exists works is for RFB\RSRDC. - Similar, Nautilus Class Submarine or a Collins Class. - Argonaut fully modeled to full size with the two 6" guns. - Rangefinders on the Yamamoto Mod. ------- Mods that build on existing work- Misc. - Opersation Monsoon, The conning tower upgrade bug that reportedly has not been fixed. Also the sinking problems with the stock SH4 merchants. It can take hours for a hog islander to sink while it only takes a few minutes for a MFM import to sink. - U-boat and Fleetboats operations in the same game, a completely open ATO-PTO. - Japanese Campaign was started by cyberman47. - Many left over SH3 files in SH4 ( often making SH4 files both confusing and cumbersome ), there is a need to strip down the game, so files that only pertain to the PTO. 1.5 further complicated things ( though it did being some PTO enhancements ) adding more ATO files. It may be better to go back to 1.4. - The only long term solution would be to clean up this game first. Someone should strip it down to a bare minimum so that mods can start with a basically empty game. A minimal modding platform. - The ability for AA gun stations to engage ships, and for the main deck gun to be able to engage aircraft. More often than not when the deck gun was in action against a ship the AA gunners were raking the ship as well (the enemy fires theirs at you), this should also have the effect of suppressing the return fire on smaller ships and from manned gun stations (not turrets). - Related to the previous, why not put the position keeper in the deck gun sight, the uzo works well for range finding with manual targeting turned off also a bearing compass would be nice. - Logbook or notepad for recording events within the game. There was a mod for this back in the early days that brought a resemblance of a log, but could not find it. ----------- Gameplay-Graphics - An after death option. Final disposition of you career, medals, log record. - More patchy weather, ie squalls, sun breaks in the rain. - Random engine failures, leaking pumps, blown pistons, leaking shaft-seals and fogged up scopes. Longer repair times. Premature torpedo failures. - Normal working air search radar. Current one does not have to be raised. ----------- I did not bother to add applications-tools yet. I had originally planned to do this and may at a later date. Also, as the game has been around for several years, it may be worth to create a Post Your SH4 Installed Mods Thread. __________________ Back in the Day Last edited by ReallyDedPoet; 05-06-14 at 09:21 AM.

04-02-14, 11:22 AM	#3
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I think it would be great to have one mod that just adds all the new ships and aircraft to the game that the modders have added over the years. many are part of larger mods but for those who like to play the basic stock game or with limited mods, it would be a very desirable new added content mod. I like to think of the best mods as a buffet line where you take what you like and plug it in without it being bundled with increased difficulty. that's where I see some mods lose a little of what could be greater mass appeal is if you don't force game style changes to go along with it. as to something new for a mod, I see a true separated engines mod and a true separated scopes mod so they don't always get destroyed together as one. for instance if fired upon after being spotted, you lose one scope and you lose both even if the other isn't extended then the engines are the same, lose one lose both. maybe an indestructible obs scope would be a good solution? something of personal frustration to me is the rudder being destroyed, I would love an indestructible rudder mod so the damage you receive affects the engines only.

04-02-14, 02:07 PM	#8
Admiral Halsey Best Admiral in the USN Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USS Enterprise (CV-6) Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 298 Uploads: 0	I wish someone would make the LA Sub that works with RFB+RSRD into one that works with TMO+RSRD+Travellers mod.