SH3 Crew Shifts mod?

[aluc24]

Hi all,

Started SH3 not too long ago, I noticed the infamous bugs related with crew fatigue in SH3. Having tried various options and mods, I decided to disable fatigue via SH3 Commander altogether, and played something like 30 patrols.

And then I understood it was way too easy. Even the stock crew, with few qualifications, was more than enough for every scenario. Officers who are always at their stations, watchmen who stand on the deck for the length of patrol, and some guys in their bunks who are never needed.

So I thought - to hell with it! It is no fun to play a superman team. I enabled GWX 8 hour fatigue model, and started to play a new career. It is much more immersive now - I actually have to plan how to rotate the crew, how often, when to leave the qualified crew rested so that they are ready when the merchant is spotted.

However, the problem is these long legs on patrol where I have to cross blue waters for many days before getting into actual combat - and later, returning back to base. When I have 80 hour cruise, it is quite irritating to manually rotate engine room crew every 3-6 hours (depending on weather and stuff).

I thought - if SH4 has crew rotations implemented, why isn't there a simple script for SH3 that would do the same?
Basic idea is that you select some crew, and tag them to be assigned to some operation station, and divide into two teams. And then set that they rotate every x hours or if fatigue drops to 50%.

But maybe such mod is already out there? Maybe I'm missing it? Help, fellow Kaleuns

P.S. I am aware that you can modify TC so that crew doesn't get tired at something like 1024x, but to me, it is also immersion breaking... And it tempts to cheat.

[RConch]

No such mod exists. The GWX team offered several alternatives for managing your crew.
I use the 8hr GWX rotation.
If the weather is bad and the crew is tired-just go under, it slows the progress of where you are going-but it saves the crew.

Or use the no fatigue option.

[aluc24]

I also use 8 hour model, but it features no-auto rotation.

How hard would it be to make such mod, or something like Autohotkey script? I'm quite amazed that no one made this already...

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by aluc24

I also use 8 hour model, but it features no-auto rotation.

How hard would it be to make such mod, or something like Autohotkey script? I'm quite amazed that no one made this already...

How hard would it be? Impossible by conventional modding techniques, or it would have been fixed years ago. (This game has been out for 8 years. If a fix is so easy, why do you think it hasn't been done?) The shift rotation in SH4 is hardcoded in the .exe file. You could do some disassembly of the .exe machine code and write a routine modeled on SH4's 3-shift rotation. So far, in eight years, only h.sie and Stiebler have ever written hard code patches for SH3. AFAIK, h.sie is no longer working on SH3, although Stiebler is. If you want to tackle this problem, Stiebler would probably be willing to offer his advice. You would be doing a great service to the SH3 gaming community. The lack of realistic crew management has been an issue with SH3 since it was released, and a solution would be most welcome. Why don't you give it a try?

[aluc24]

I see. I would spare no expense nor time to solve this problem, only if I could. My knowledge on programming is most basic, and if you're right, this is very advanced challenge.

Instead of hard-coding the sh3.exe, I imagine it could be done with external utility. There is already an utility (downloadable somewhere on this site) which moves Watch Officer to deck every time u-boat surfaces. I imagine same could be done with crew rotation, only triggered by fatigue or internal game clock. What do you think of this approach?


Also, ow can I contact Stiebler?

[sublynx]

Might a semi-automatic version be possible?

- edit the battle station commands in a way that instead of Surface attack or AA cruise crewmen setups you get two (or more) versions of rest / work shifts. Like Team 1 working / team 2 resting, and vice versa

But how does the program control who goes where when changing rooms? That might be hard-coded.

I never use the battle station shortcuts, so I would really love this kind of mod. Every four hours I would just click a button and the crew would be changed.

But at the end of the day it's a probably a lot of hard work, maybe not even possible without hardcode editing, and the result would be a mod that's handy, but most people would still opt for the no-fatigue solution.

[aluc24]

I think, if done properly, such mod would gain much attention from community. I hope someone from mod makers will reply to this topic, maybe the can tell if this is feasible.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by aluc24

I see. I would spare no expense nor time to solve this problem, only if I could. My knowledge on programming is most basic, and if you're right, this is very advanced challenge.

Instead of hard-coding the sh3.exe, I imagine it could be done with external utility. There is already an utility (downloadable somewhere on this site) which moves Watch Officer to deck every time u-boat surfaces. I imagine same could be done with crew rotation, only triggered by fatigue or internal game clock. What do you think of this approach?

If you're going to build on SH3AutoWO, then you need to select a graphic element that triggers the shift change. Then it might work. Worth a try. Anything would be an improvement!

Also, ow can I contact Stiebler?

He's on the SubSIm Captain's Roster (under the Community tab above on this page).

[Oleander]

I think III and IV use the same game engine, if that's the case it would be possible to implement an auto crew rotation.

I believe the fatigue bug is by design, sort of as a way of making the player change out his crew but the fatigue accumulation is so far from reality, not to mention the rest model, that if you aren't rotating your crew throughout the voyage you're screwed after a couple weeks.

If you can't get a style like SH4 to work, it would be nice if the 1st Officer would give you a message saying X watch has ended, that along with an 8 hour fatigue model would work really well.

It'd be nice if you could assign a shift like a medal, then just let them swap on a time trigger.

[TheDarkWraith]

Why do you all continually try to improve a dinosaur? If you want crew rotations play SH4. It has them. Trying to make this work for SH3 is a monstrous task in assembly. Please explain to me why you would RE SH4 (which will probably take you about 2-4 yrs to do), then RE SH3 (which would take you about another 2-4 yrs to do), and then try and port some of it (SH4) over to SH3 with the chances of success < 25%? If you're looking for epic failure that is the way to proceed. If you're looking to improve your assembly and RE skills though that is a great way to proceed/learn.

Ideas are great as long as they are within the bounds of reality.

Just as a little example I've been REing SH5 for over 3 years now and have about 35% of it decoded. I don't expect to decode it 100% - I'm only looking for the 'meaty' stuff. What I have decoded is the stuff that matters - gameplay, unit creation/deletion, sensors, environment, weapons, how the architecture of the game is (does it use trees, lists, etc. and how does it utilize the controllers - are they plug-ins, connected to objects, etc.), memory locations of constants and globals, constructors/deconstructors, how to allocate/deallocate memory using the game's kernel, and the most important parts of any game - the main game loop and it's kernel functions.

[flag4]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Why do you all continually try to improve a dinosaur? If you want crew rotations play SH4. It has them. Trying to make this work for SH3 is a monstrous task in assembly. Please explain to me why you would RE SH4 (which will probably take you about 2-4 yrs to do), then RE SH3 (which would take you about another 2-4 yrs to do), and then try and port some of it (SH4) over to SH3 with the chances of success < 25%? If you're looking for epic failure that is the way to proceed. If you're looking to improve your assembly and RE skills though that is a great way to proceed/learn.

Ideas are great as long as they are within the bounds of reality.

Just as a little example I've been REing SH5 for over 3 years now and have about 35% of it decoded. I don't expect to decode it 100% - I'm only looking for the 'meaty' stuff. What I have decoded is the stuff that matters - gameplay, unit creation/deletion, sensors, environment, weapons, how the architecture of the game is (does it use trees, lists, etc. and how does it utilize the controllers - are they plug-ins, connected to objects, etc.), memory locations of constants and globals, constructors/deconstructors, how to allocate/deallocate memory using the game's kernel, and the most important parts of any game - the main game loop and it's kernel functions.

you are a genius. don't look back. you are waiting for us all on the horizon. you get there first, we can only follow in your path.
one day i'll switch from 3 to 5 because I know its in the hands of artists - of which you are one. for that I am truly thankful...

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by flag4

you are a genius. don't look back. you are waiting for us all on the horizon. you get there first, we can only follow in your path.
one day i'll switch from 3 to 5 because I know its in the hands of artists - of which you are one. for that I am truly thankful...

I'm not saying give up SHIII, SHI, or even SHII. They were great in their day But there comes a time when you have to move forward, it's just the natural progression of things. Heck, I still have the very first car I ever bought brand new at the age of 17 still in my garage ('91 Firebird Formula). Do I try and improve it? No, it's a dinosaur and it's technology was 1st class in it's day but way below par for today's standards.

The more people advance to the current technology and learn/explore it the more it can become better. More ideas will come from it and very more than likely more knowledge will come from it through more people 'peeking under the hood'. It's time to make the move

Citing examples of it's bug ridden or doesn't do this or doesn't do that is a sign of complete ignorance if you have never tried it. What SH5 was on release day is nothing compared to what it is now or where I'm taking it.

[captrocket]

Originally Posted by aluc24

Hi all,

Started SH3 not too long ago, I noticed the infamous bugs related with crew fatigue in SH3. Having tried various options and mods, I decided to disable fatigue via SH3 Commander altogether, and played something like 30 patrols.

And then I understood it was way too easy. Even the stock crew, with few qualifications, was more than enough for every scenario. Officers who are always at their stations, watchmen who stand on the deck for the length of patrol, and some guys in their bunks who are never needed.

So I thought - to hell with it! It is no fun to play a superman team. I enabled GWX 8 hour fatigue model, and started to play a new career. It is much more immersive now - I actually have to plan how to rotate the crew, how often, when to leave the qualified crew rested so that they are ready when the merchant is spotted.

However, the problem is these long legs on patrol where I have to cross blue waters for many days before getting into actual combat - and later, returning back to base. When I have 80 hour cruise, it is quite irritating to manually rotate engine room crew every 3-6 hours (depending on weather and stuff).

I thought - if SH4 has crew rotations implemented, why isn't there a simple script for SH3 that would do the same?
Basic idea is that you select some crew, and tag them to be assigned to some operation station, and divide into two teams. And then set that they rotate every x hours or if fatigue drops to 50%.

But maybe such mod is already out there? Maybe I'm missing it? Help, fellow Kaleuns

P.S. I am aware that you can modify TC so that crew doesn't get tired at something like 1024x, but to me, it is also immersion breaking... And it tempts to cheat.

Try this to get get rid of crew fatigue.

https://www.fileplanet.com/156693/do...No-Fatigue-Mod

[Sailor Steve]

You do know you're responding to a three-year-old post by someone who hasn't even looked at these forums in eight months?

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I'm not saying give up SHIII, SHI, or even SHII. They were great in their day But there comes a time when you have to move forward, it's just the natural progression of things. Heck, I still have the very first car I ever bought brand new at the age of 17 still in my garage ('91 Firebird Formula). Do I try and improve it? No, it's a dinosaur and it's technology was 1st class in it's day but way below par for today's standards.

The more people advance to the current technology and learn/explore it the more it can become better. More ideas will come from it and very more than likely more knowledge will come from it through more people 'peeking under the hood'. It's time to make the move

Citing examples of it's bug ridden or doesn't do this or doesn't do that is a sign of complete ignorance if you have never tried it. What SH5 was on release day is nothing compared to what it is now or where I'm taking it.

Must of had well off parents