Flakmonkey's Interior with crew

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

But did they give it a bench at the helm/planes stations in the zentrale, is the real question.

I'm not as certain as Jim, but I highly doubt it. Even if they did modify the boat, it would be odd if they did exactly the same modification as another nation did.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

No...she was never modified and was taken out of commission in 42 because of a lack of spare parts.

Ah, then the bench was there for her original German crew to sit on. Cool.

[MCHALO12]

@Hellraiser: I think the researchers are sure to have visited U 995, but they apparently had other sources or they would not have taken the old version of the electric engine room... I don't know if the bench would still be in U 995 if it had been installed by the Norwegian Navy: the conning tower has exactly been restored as it was in WWII.

@fraukaleun: Very interesting picture. In my opinion it seems quite implausible that the British Navy should have installed a bench in a captured German submarine during the war. They wanted to understand the capabilities of this boats, but they did not plan to put it into active service as far as I know...

Thank you for your help guys!

MCHALO12.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MCHALO12

@fraukaleun: Very interesting picture. In my opinion it seems quite implausible that the British Navy should have installed a bench in a captured German submarine during the war. They wanted to understand the capabilities of this boats, but they did not plan to put it into active service as far as I know...

Thank you for your help guys!

MCHALO12.

On 21 October 1942, in the bay of Biscay, about 50 nautical miles (90 km) north-north-east of Cape Ortegal (44°31***8242;N 7°25***8242;W***65279; / ***65279;44.517°N 7.417°W***65279; / 44.517; -7.417), Graph encountered the U-333. Four torpedoes were fired but all missed.[47] In December 1942, HMS Graph sighted the German cruiser Admiral Hipper on her return to Altenfjord following the Battle of the Barents Sea, but Hipper was travelling too fast to be attacked. Three hours later, Graph sighted one German destroyer towing a second, and attacked. However, her torpedoes missed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Graph_(P715)

She was commissioned into the Royal Navy as HMS Graph on 19 September 1941. HMS Graph was decommissioned from active service in February 1944. Graph was lost on 20 March 1944 when she ran aground on the west coast of the Island of Islay, Scotland.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/7751.html

http://www.secondworldwar.org.uk/britsubgraph.html

[MCHALO12]

****. So the only piece of evidence we had is obsolete...

Doesn't matter, I like the bench . It stays as long as nobody can proof wether it was there in WWII or not.

Best regards, MCHALO12.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by MCHALO12

****. So the only piece of evidence we had is obsolete...

Doesn't matter, I like the bench . It stays as long as nobody can proof wether it was there in WWII or not.

Actually I think that what Jim and Steve (and I) are saying is that it's very likely the bench was in fact part of the boat's original wartime German design. It's clealy there in the picture, which had to have been taken after the RN captured U-570 in 1941 but before she was lost in 1944, and it's unlikely that the bench was added by the British during that time.

[rik007]

I love this! How hard it is to convince the anti-bench community that there was a bench in control room.

So where are these guys sitting on in the lower picture? what is the box-like structure in the right upper picture? Could it be a bench?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MCHALO12

****. So the only piece of evidence we had is obsolete...

Doesn't matter, I like the bench . It stays as long as nobody can proof wether it was there in WWII or not.

Best regards, MCHALO12.

LOL

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Actually I think that what Jim and Steve (and I) are saying is that it's very likely the bench was in fact part of the boat's original wartime German design. It's clealy there in the picture, which had to have been taken after the RN captured U-570 in 1941 but before she was lost in 1944, and it's unlikely that the bench was added by the British during that time.

Precisely

[Sailor Steve]

MCHALO12 has said he agrees, so I think he could hardly be called "anti-bench". That said, I'd like to address the last set of pictures from the other side.

Originally Posted by rik007

So where are these guys sitting on in the lower picture?

Since there is no trace of the seat in the picture, it could be anything, including the individual saddles a la SH3.

what is the box-like structure in the right upper picture? Could it be a bench?

Yes, it certainly could be. If it is, though, why is there no one sitting on it? The periscope is raised, suggesting that the boat is submerged. If it is there would certainly be someone sitting at the dive planes. In fact that object could be a crate of some sort.

Not really arguing, since I think the bench is correct. I'm merely pointing out the error of assuming that what you can't see for certain is what you want it to be.

[MCHALO12]

Operating the machine telegraphe:


Ringing the alarm bell:


The animations are of course linked to the related orders.

Best regards, MCAHLO12.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yes, it certainly could be. If it is, though, why is there no one sitting on it? The periscope is raised, suggesting that the boat is submerged.

Is that the depth gauge visible over the shoulder of the guy at the 'scope? If so, can anyone make out the numbers, or compare it to a better picture of the same gauge? Cuz if it's a shallow depth gauge marking off 0-5-10-15-20-25 meters, then the position of the needle would seem to indicate that they're surfaced.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Is that the depth gauge visible over the shoulder of the guy at the 'scope? If so, can anyone make out the numbers, or compare it to a better picture of the same gauge? Cuz if it's a shallow depth gauge marking off 0-5-10-15-20-25 meters, then the position of the needle would seem to indicate that they're surfaced.

Could well be 'stage managed'...a propaganda picture

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by MCHALO12

Operating the machine telegraphe:The animations are of course linked to the related orders.

Cool!

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Is that the depth gauge visible over the shoulder of the guy at the 'scope?

It does indeed look like the 25-metre depth guage, and I think you're right. That would by why no one is sitting there.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Could well be 'stage managed'...a propaganda picture

Probably. It would explain a lot.

[SquareSteelBar]

Here you see a part of the bench:



I can't imagine that sitting on a saddle looks like that [note the angle]:



Sitting on a saddle this way would rip the helmsman's ass when depthcharged next time...



These authentic pics were taken by Lothar-Günther Buchheim [author of 'Das Boot'] during his patrol on U-96.



I think these saddles in stock SH3 are phantasms of the developers since they couldn't get any docs about the correct seats.

[DivingDuck]

Moin,

as MCHALO already told I´m no fan of the bench. It looks odd in U995, kinda out of place. So I checked all plans/books I have for evidence.

• VII B 1940 --> ?
• VII C 1944 --> bench
• VII D 1941 --> bench
  
• IX D2 1943 --> bench
  
• XVII K -------> saddle/seat
• XVII B -------> saddle/seat
• XVII G -------> saddle/seat
• XVIII -------> contradicting plans, maybe because different development stages / missing dates on them
  
• XX ----------> ?
• XXI ----------> saddle/seat
• XXII ---------> saddle/seat
• XXIII --------> ?
• XXVI --------> saddle/seat
• XXIX H ------> saddle/seat
  
• 30A ---------> saddle/seat

No bench is mentioned on the plans, but those I have marked as 'bench' have a rectangular / L- shape in the respective position and no saddles.

Those marked with '?' do not have the rectangular / L- shape nor single seats/saddles.

Those marked 'saddle/seat' do clearly show single seats/saddles.


I´ve checked as many plans as I could find to see whether the bench was original design and more or less common. I do not like it, but quite some evidence has been presented to court already. The bench will most probably stay unless MCHALO and I break off over the issue / somebody else re-works this mod after we are finished with it / SubSim.com presents a petition against the bench (I would be first to sign it, LOL).

Regards,
DD