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Old 07-07-07, 09:39 PM   #61
WernerSobe
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i must admit i have only tried an older version (i think it was 14) and i felt like the ships are sinking only by hitpoints. Ill check the newest one.
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Old 07-07-07, 11:02 PM   #62
WernerSobe
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ok ive been testing version 16 for about 1 hour here are my foundings.

ive sank 20 ships (different kinds of merchants from small to big ones)

- more then half sank from first hit after suffering a huge explosion
- 2 of 20 sank by flooding (1 hit) 18 either didnt sank from 1 hit or sank by hitpoints from second hit
- only the tankers sank longer then 5 minutes. all other in less. some in a matter of few seconds. especialy those that exploded.

what i did like:
nice effects like burning oil and huge smoke stacks from burning tankers. But that slowed down my game a lot. Also very nice splash effects and how the ships jump out of the water when being hit.

what id like to see improved:
more sinkings by flooding :-) more hitpoints especialy for warships. Less big explosions. Longer sinking times: that being a quastion of taste. If you want to make it more fun the sinking times are ok. If you want it to be more historical multiply the flooding time by at least 5. Historicaly some ships indeed sank in few seconds when being criticaly hit or loaded with steel. But that not being the rule. The big majority stayed afloat for a long time, hours and even days were common.

Ive been looking at how your mod is designed and have learned few more things thanks for that. Ill however continue on this way and try to completely eliminate the hitpoint sinkings so only flooding is possible in next version. Ill need to rework entire compartment system for every ship to find the right balance that being the hard part of it.
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Old 07-08-07, 01:17 AM   #63
LukeFF
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This mod is very nice, Werner. Keep up the good work!

(Now, if we could just increase the delay for that #$#$%^&$%$%^&%^!!! "Enemy unit destroyed" message for ship sinkings, everything would be great).
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Old 07-08-07, 01:21 AM   #64
nomad_delta
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Going to give it a try; will let you know how it goes.

Cheers,

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Old 07-08-07, 02:32 AM   #65
WernerSobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeFF
This mod is very nice, Werner. Keep up the good work!

(Now, if we could just increase the delay for that #$#$%^&$%$%^&%^!!! "Enemy unit destroyed" message for ship sinkings, everything would be great).
heads up for next version. Im working on it and ive already found a solution on that. In new version you will score the kills much later when most of the ship is under water and its clearly sinking.
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Old 07-08-07, 06:19 AM   #66
Jace11
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Here is an ammo ship exploding underwater, same with tankers... Not seen one explode yet... sure the torpedoes blow up and there maybe a small explosion, but not the BIG BANG.. looking foward to a fix for this as the slow sinking in this mod is great..


Shot at 2007-07-08
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Old 07-08-07, 08:00 AM   #67
WernerSobe
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ill release the new version soon. im still tweaking and balancing it but there will be far less instant kills, no more explosions under water too. And it will work in entirely another way, the structural damage and hitpoints being completely eliminated. They will sink natural way only. flooding, fires, capsizing and big explosions.
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Old 07-08-07, 08:13 AM   #68
Redwine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
ok ive been testing version 16 for about 1 hour here are my foundings.

ive sank 20 ships (different kinds of merchants from small to big ones)

- more then half sank from first hit after suffering a huge explosion
- 2 of 20 sank by flooding (1 hit) 18 either didnt sank from 1 hit or sank by hitpoints from second hit
- only the tankers sank longer then 5 minutes. all other in less. some in a matter of few seconds. especialy those that exploded.
Many thanks for your help...

May be we have diferent installation, any way in the las version, i note the add of new effects made the ships a little bit more easy to sink than into early versions, may by due to the spead of damage caused by the explosions effects.

Here a mission i played yesterday night...

I hit a Kuma Light Cruiser at 2200m, it have a high flooding but dont sinks, i put on it a second torp, at 11:25....



It start to sink by flooding....

It sinks at 12:01, 36 minutes later of the second impact...

It takes 36 minutes (after second impact) to sink by flooding.



Of course it not happen often... but some time you need to give the ships many minutes to sink by flooding.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
what i did like:
nice effects like burning oil and huge smoke stacks from burning tankers. But that slowed down my game a lot. Also very nice splash effects and how the ships jump out of the water when being hit.
many thanks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
what id like to see improved:
more sinkings by flooding :-) more hitpoints especialy for warships.
The matter is, not always the same ship needs the same quantity of torps, as you see above, it takes about 45 minutes to sink a light cruiser from the first impact, and 36 minutes to sink by flooding after the second one.

If you want to sink this ship (a light cruiser) quickly, you need 3 torps, wich seems too unrealistic, a single one must be enough for a Heavy one.

Based on that mission, i we can soupose, i need to lower down the ship hit points, but not...

If you play more, more and more, you can see this same ship, can be easy sinked by a single torp if it hit the apropiated compartement.

The critical compatement explodes, and spread the damage and kill the adyacent compartements... and kill the ship, even it can kill a DD if it is so near, even can kill the life boats, and even your onwn sub if the explosion if from an ammo cargo.

In other hand can happens.... nothing as in the screen shots above...

This is what i like too much of the results in Die Slowly... yoiu never can know how many torps will need a ship to be killed.

I remeber into SH2 and SH 3, i previously know how many torps needs each ship, i ensure the just quantity and let that ship to take another... and the kill was ensured...

Here not, some times this ships can be killed by a single torp.... and some times needs 3 as in this case, or two torps, and 36 minutes to sink...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
Less big explosions.
Not agree with that ! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

It is a game ! I want to enjoy many Hollywood FX effects ! :rotfl:


Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
Longer sinking times: that being a quastion of taste.
Complettelly agree with that !
With both things, agree with longer sinking times, and with it is matter of personal taste.

IMHO we need to reach a balanced status... not too long times, not too short, but some of both, some quick sinks into less than 30 seconds, and some long sinks as in the screen shots baove... 36 minutes after the second torp on a light cruiser... wich seems to be much more than in real life for a light cruiser one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
If you want to make it more fun the sinking times are ok. If you want it to be more historical multiply the flooding time by at least 5.
I was under the tentation of that, the problem was, some times the flooding times become so long...

Just imagine the ship of the screen shots above, wich like it is takles 36 minutes to sink after the second impact... if i multiply the flooding times by 5, it sure will sink beyond of my visual and sonar contact.

I can do that, and improve many sinks, but it can ruin other sinks....



Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
Historicaly some ships indeed sank in few seconds when being criticaly hit or loaded with steel. But that not being the rule. The big majority stayed afloat for a long time, hours and even days were common.
Completelly agree... and i like that.

Any way we are still reworking the mod, as wrte before, the new FX effects added, rised up the probabilities to sink a ship easy...

The big explosions spread the damage too much.

Sure a rise up of hit points will be welcome.

But... there was a probelm, wich was one of the cause which generated Die Slowly to born, was the "unsinkable ships"

If we make a good sink on the most common ships, we roll back the problem of the unsinkable ships, wich take more than 10 torps to sink and generated the claim of people into the forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
Ive been looking at how your mod is designed and have learned few more things thanks for that.
No due of request any help or tip to me or to leo if you need, i love your job and we can learn one of the other. !!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerSobe
Ill however continue on this way and try to completely eliminate the hitpoint sinkings so only flooding is possible in next version. Ill need to rework entire compartment system for every ship to find the right balance that being the hard part of it.
So good... will be intersting to see what happens with the "unsinkable ships" with you way....

I think so, that way will be fine for most of the ships, but when you found one of the misterious "unsinkables" you will spend 20 torps and they will not sink.

They are really a nightmare, in the early verions when all seems to work properly, i receive reports about .... in that yer... near Salomon... a cargo ship take me 10 torps and dont sink...

What ! ?

Take a look on them...

But not sure... please share results...

Many thanks for your comments, if you have more, please do it into the die slowly topic.

I do not want to disturb your topic with Die Slowly things, but i apreciated too much your comments, we need fedbacks...

many, many thanks for your job... !!!


Last edited by Redwine; 07-08-07 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 07-08-07, 08:29 AM   #69
Jace11
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Are people trying to hijack this thread...?

Anyway, Werner, I have transposed your changes to floatability and flooding times into my old zones.cfg and left out the critcial changes you made... and now they sink slowely and explode at the right time, so I am happy now, thanks for all your work...
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Old 07-08-07, 08:33 AM   #70
Bando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace11
Anyway, Werner, I have transposed your changes to floatability and flooding times into my old zones.cfg and left out the critcial changes you made... and now they sink slowely and explode at the right time, so I am happy now, thanks for all your work...
Hello Jace,

What are those criticals in your view?

Reg
Bando
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Old 07-08-07, 08:42 AM   #71
Redwine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace11
Are people trying to hijack this thread...?
No... if you read before to write you will note i put some comments here due to some wrong comments/impresions about Die Slowly.

And all i put here, may be useful foe me and for Werner... to share experience is useful for both...

and if you read more i wrote this...

Quote:
Many thanks for your comments, if you have more, please do it into the die slowly topic.

I do not want to disturb your topic with Die Slowly things, but i apreciated too much your comments, we need fedbacks...

many, many thanks for your job... !!!

Read before to write.
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Old 07-08-07, 09:47 AM   #72
Jungman
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Hey look, another sinking mod! Takes forever to sink a ship indeed. Be nice to remove that 'ship destoyed' instant message though.

It is a nice start, but I find not too many big explosion as Jace11 stated.

I too adjusted the criticals and most important, changed the MaxEF for torpedo back to normal (not the modified MinEF note) so the randomly big hitpoint destroying giant explosion will occur more often (as now they really never do at half unless you hit a very good critical spot). I understand that was intent by the Mod (flood only), but a bit boring.

Ie, change criticals back to normal per Jace11; change the higher MaxEF for torpedo damage only higher to alow for more complete hitpoint detruction by chance.

It is a simple quick mod which is nice. I have not played Redwine Mod yet until this new version they made to test out. There are alot more changed going on in Die Slowly Mod 16 to evaluate.

I do say though, good job to both of your efforts and insights. The more Mods the Merry!:p

Better than stock, thanks guys.
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Old 07-08-07, 09:49 AM   #73
kv29
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werner, red and leo, why don´t you work together in a same mod??
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Old 07-08-07, 10:31 AM   #74
tater
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Yeah, I'd like the "instant success" to just go away. They can confirm my sinkings back home based on sigint, ULTRA, etc.

tater
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Old 07-08-07, 10:47 AM   #75
Bando
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It's easy to get rid of the words. But instead there will be a message saying nothing. Don't know how to eliminate the trigger.

Reg
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