[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Hey RR

Earlier in this thread you mentioned something about a spreadsheet listing all modded ships for SH4 from all sources. I'd like to take a look at it if that possible.

Here you go: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4967

I noticed that merchies and warships are all mixed up in there. Can someone give me a list of all merchies from the Sea folder?

And I need to add a new column for FOTRS 2.0 ships as well. Remember that stock ships don't appear in the list for the mods. We should probably change that to list all ships that the mods change, if there are changes to the stock ship of the same name.

[Rockin Robbins]

And as a supplement to the above, I have just finished editing Ship types in mods.xls spreadsheet to include FOTRS 2.0. Big surprises there. There were several ship types present in FOTRS 1.3 that weren't present in 2.0, along with several new additions.

Also, there are no longer any hidden columns in the spreadsheet.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4967

Same link--different stuff.

Did I say I found out how to automatically get all the files in a folder into a text file list? Yahoo!

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

... I was pretty darned happy with the base mod except for my sound problem with voices. Could be my computer and I'd appreciate someone else checking it out. Changing the volumes of samples is a simple matter with Audacity. I believe we should standardize all sounds at 44.1 MHz sample rate too. It just makes sense not to strain the sound system...

I've found that sounds just up and disappear, usually never to be heard again until after starting a new mission, patrol or session of the game. I used to think it just happened when doing TC, but now it almost seems like it's anytime you leave the driver's seat in the game, and do an "exterior peek" with an F11. I know that the sounds change from the sub to the exterior, and I'm looking into a connection there. Maybe it's a sample rate change, I don't know yet, since my main computer decided to take a vacation Saturday evening after a Windows Update. I am getting tired of this Windows issue. I initially thought it was a hard drive problem, but ~no~... Windows Update. I've got a Windows 10 test partition on the hard drive, and I'm very tempted to get rid of it, but I'm afraid it won't put my Win7 back the way it was... Anyway, I'm back on the main computer again, and going through the audio files and their differences between the versions.

When you made your file list with Yahoo!, were you able to get the "details" to copy over, such as file size, modify date, etc. - that kind of stuff?...

Also, if I get something useful with the sounds, I'll have to PM you for how to properly use Google Drive for upload. It took me a while to figure out how to download stuff. I can only imagine the shear terror I'll put in the Google people's hearts if I try to upload... "Oh no! He's online again, trying to upload to us... Brace for impact!"

[cdrsubron7]

On another note, where are we with the core mod? Have we added 2.0 merchies and let the existing missions files use them? Have we looked at them and taken some screenies? I think I'm looking into that next. Then comparing 2.0 warships, finding the additions and seeing if it's worth it to edit all those mission files!

Just wondering how far we're going to try and go with the ships in the game. Are we just going to import from just v 2.0 to v1.3 or are we going to import ships from the other mods also.

[propbeanie]

I'd say just have the AOTD_MadMax ships (all versions, if possible) in the 'base' mod, but maybe have "tested" ship packs from others available as "Ultimate Approved" add-ons... ??

I, wanting to get me file details, such as bit depth, sample rate and mono/stereo, not just the name & size of the files, copied into a spreadsheet for comparison purposes, and haven't yet. Anyone 'been there, done that'?...

[CapnScurvy]

Sometimes SH4 works in mysterious ways...

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

I think there is something to that. If you give some thought to when your positioning the ships of a convoy they are not locked in place but joined to a group leader. Supposedly the ships are supposed to follow the group leader's motions but there seems to be a lot randomness to the movement of the other ships not matter what you do.

The difference between the "Gaggle to Haggle With" .mis, and the "Stock Convoy" .mis seems to be the fact there is a "Unit Leader" for the "Gaggle" mission. There is not a "Unit Leader" defined in the "Stock Convoy" mission.

Besides Double R's video, I took the time to make some comparison images of the two stock game behaviors. Here's the "Gaggle" stock game ships, and their actions:













As you can see, a little over half hour after first contacting the convoy their so hopelessly lost there's no way they will get back together. No detection of my sub has been made. The ships are just running wild all over the screen!

The following is the "Stock Convoy" mission:










The above image is showing about how much the convoy gets out of line during the monitoring.....pretty boring stuff.

Half hour later their back in line:




A couple of hours later, their feeling their oats again:







In less than 10 minutes their back in line.....following the expectations we have for them.

Is the "Unit Leader" designation a problem for a "Random Group" of ships in a convoy. Could be, since this is about the only idea I have when comparing the differences between the two mission files.

Why is this important you may ask?

Having a good stock ship mission is critical in knowing what to expect from the stock game. How else will you know when a ship is acting normal or abnormal due to a modification you may be testing if you don't know what reactions the stock game will have during normal game play?

[XTBilly]

Rockin Robbins, great discovery!! It didn't pass my mind that v1.3 has ships not included in v2.0. You've opened new horizons here! Also, your ship spreadsheet is of GREAT help to me. Specially the new version. Thanks!
It takes courage and honesty for a man to accept any mistake he did, and redeem himself in public. For me, you fully comply in both.

CapnScurvy, your conclusion in mission designing is excellent. As you said, concrete stable missions are the best base of testing any modding done. Thanks for your efforts, working despite your condition!

Propbeanie, just imagine the "Maddy's Greatest Hits" core version including all his beauties gathered together! I really don't know if it can be done, but we can at least try. It's surely worth it.

CdrSubron7, feel free to contact me and tell me how could I help you with your "ship quest".

The damage model goes well, better balanced now, I may completely eliminate hit points as a factor (still testing that), but I'm having a newbie question that troubles me and I need help with. I have to test every single ship's behavior when damaged. No choice here. Then, adjust and test again.

Our old friend, the Kiturin Maru for example, is listed as NPL_Kiturin in the \Sea folder. However, in-game it's Medium Passengership. How could I get the in-game ship names for my tests? I'd kill for an RR's ship spreadsheet with ships in-game names.

Any help/suggestion on this would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Billy.

[CapnScurvy]

XTBilly, print off the "names.cfg" file found in the Data/Roster folder of whatever game mod you're using. Putting it into Windows Word, you'll be able to arrange each section into an alphabetical order for quick reference. This file uses the specific name each model has been assigned from the creators; it then changes the name to whatever "given" name a person may wish to use during the game.

Comparing the stock game "given" names to the modded "given" names used should help in figuring out what's what? Like the "PLKiturin", its called the "Modern Passenger Liner" in the stock game. In a lot of mods, it's called what the creators called the model....."Kiturin Maru".

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

XTBilly, print off the "names.cfg" file found in the Data/Roster folder of whatever game mod you're using. Putting it into Windows Word, you'll be able to arrange each section into an alphabetical order for quick reference. This file uses the specific name each model has been assigned from the creators; it then changes the name to whatever "given" name a person may wish to use during the game.

Comparing the stock game "given" names to the modded "given" names used should help in figuring out what's what? Like the "NPLKiturin", its called the Medium New Passenger Ship in the stock game. In a lot of mods, it's called what the creators called the model....."Kiturin Maru".

Thanks a lot Captain! I'll try this.

[CapnScurvy]

I want to point something out.

As you look through the "names.cfg" file you'll see the entries listed as the creators called them.

Looks like this: "ABCDEFG=given name"

As I said, the first name usually corresponds to the model name. Its also going to correspond to the "ClassName=" or "UnitName=" that's found throughout the game files. It's this name that the game uses to link the various parts together to the one model. This name will usually be different than the "given" name of the model found to the right of the equal sign.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

The difference between the "Gaggle to Haggle With" .mis, and the "Stock Convoy" .mis seems to be the fact there is a "Unit Leader" for the "Gaggle" mission. There is not a "Unit Leader" defined in the "Stock Convoy" mission.

Besides Double R's video, I took the time to make some comparison images of the two stock game behaviors ...

... Is the "Unit Leader" designation a problem for a "Random Group" of ships in a convoy. Could be, since this is about the only idea I have when comparing the differences between the two mission files...

I'm curious here CpanScurvy: How do you built your "Stock Convoy" for the mission you're using? All the years I've been doing SH4 (since shortly after it's release), I've always made a particular ship "the leader", whether it'd be a warship, such as a cruiser, or a destroyer, or one of the Passenger ships. I almost always build my Merchant Convoy missions with warships of some form, and almost always have one of the warships as "leader". Probably because I'm too lazy, and with the "leader", I just have to make one waypoint... I have built some convoys with nothing but merchant vessels, but I (as far as I can remember) always have a "leader". Just my "natural" way of thinking, that *somebody* has to be the leader... I have noticed though, that in some of the "stock" v1.5 convoys, such as in "SM07 Tokio-Saipan Convoy" or "SM11 Borneo Convoy", that they do seem to perform better than the ones I make, and even seem to "scatter" more orderly when my sub is "seen". Perhaps I ought to do more "looking to see what others do", as has been suggested here many times... |;^)

I have noticed with my convoys, similar behavior to what RR and you have documented with your encounters... Perhaps we'd make mention in the ReadMe file for the updated mod of such info... ??

In the meantime, the AC went out in our car, so it's off to see the wizard, to see if I can get me some cool air... for not too much money, I hope. I've got too much stuff breaking lately.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Propbeanie

I'm curious here CpanScurvy: How do you built your "Stock Convoy" for the mission you're using? All the years I've been doing SH4 (since shortly after it's release), I've always made a particular ship "the leader", whether it'd be a warship, such as a cruiser, or a destroyer, or one of the Passenger ships.

The stock game Campaign .mis files don't use leaders....so I don't either. Better to emulate than try something different.

Right click on the map area you want your group to be spawned. You'll find this menu box:




Clicking the "Add Random Generated Group", you'll get another box:





This is where you give your Random Group a name....mine is Convoy_1. You'll get a marker like this showing on the map:





Right clicking the marker will produce another menu group; left click the "Define Group Contents":





This will bring up the following box that contains your various ships in "Convoy_1". As You can see I'm using the "Generic" pick of the ships (the game will pick for you from the specific ship type listed). I chose the Tanker, Cargo, Troop Transport ship types. There will be 12 ships total with this make-up since the "Units No" is 3 each. The "Unit Class" box gives you all the various individual unit type's found in the game (plus the Generic one's). If a mod has its own ships (like FOTRS) you'll need to have the mod "activated" thru JSGME to have them listed and available for mission making. Do this before opening the Mission Editor.

There is a place where you have to name a leader (the ME won't let you save anything if you don't).....I chose one of the Generic Tanker's as the "Leader Entry". Also notice I used the 700 meters as a "Formation Spacing". This is almost always what the stock game Campaign .mis files have for spacing..........Emulate, EMULATE.





Once "Accept" is hit, by right clicking the map marker again, you'll need to left click the "Group Properties":





This menu defines the Random Group. Notice there's nothing in the "Leader Unit" area:




It's in this parameter that I noticed the Gaggle to Haggle With mission had a "Large Old Passenger Carrier" as its "Leader Unit". I don't know for sure why this would make a difference, I'm not 100% sure that it does at all. But, there is a difference in convoy behavior, and this is one place that's different between the two missions.

By finishing the other parameters with the usual entries, this completes your random group "Convoy_1". With adding a "Human Controlled" sub to the mission, your ready to save your .mis as a "Normal" mission.

The convoy will stick together with a few minor jukes/jives....but its all very normal.

Probably because I'm too lazy, with the "leader", I just have to make one waypoint...

That's all I do as well using the Group Menu "Add Waypoint" parameter. Also, make the convoy head in the waypoints direction by clicking "Head to Waypoint"....saves the time for the convoy to circle around before getting on their way.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

... There is a place where you have to name a leader (the ME won't let you save anything if you don't).....I chose one of the Generic Tanker's as the "Leader Entry". Also notice I used the 700 meters as a "Formation Spacing". This is almost always what the stock game Campaign .mis files have for spacing...

I wonder how different the 'leader' there is from one in a 'manually' produced convoy? I'm thinking now that having a 'jackrabbit' (as compared to a tanker) warship as 'leader' in a convoy of mine that's produced one ship at a time might be the suspect, though I do have some that behave rather straight-up 'normal'...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I wonder how different the 'leader' there is from one in a 'manually' produced convoy? I'm thinking now that having a 'jackrabbit' (as compared to a tanker) warship as 'leader' in a convoy of mine that's produced one ship at a time might be the suspect, though I do have some that behave rather straight-up 'normal'...

I'm more inclined to suspect that the difference is not in which "Leader Entry" you've chosen in this particular parameter (mine is the GENERIC Tanker). This "Leader" doesn't get transferred over to the "Group Properties" page. As I pointd out, my "Group Properties" page doesn't list a Leader at all. To me, there's your difference. Plus the Spacing is larger too.

One thing I've noticed with making a group my way, the convoy's Group Parameter "Speed (Max XX.X) (Knots)" is directly related to whatever the slowest ship type that's in the group. For instance the "Stock Convoy" mission has a "Speed (Max 8.0) (Knots)" while the one I made just for the post has a "Speed (Max 10.0)(Knots)". I believe this is because there's a possible Fishing Boat Class (GENERIC Costal Traffic) in the "Stock Convoy" mission, where there is not one in the "Convoy_1" mission. It's not what speed the Leader may have for MaximumSpeed, but what the MaximumSpeed the slowest ship in the convoy has.

Emulate, EMULATE the stock game!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I've found that sounds just up and disappear, usually never to be heard again until after starting a new mission, patrol or session of the game. I used to think it just happened when doing TC, but now it almost seems like it's anytime you leave the driver's seat in the game, and do an "exterior peek" with an F11. I know that the sounds change from the sub to the exterior, and I'm looking into a connection there. Maybe it's a sample rate change, I don't know yet, since my main computer decided to take a vacation Saturday evening after a Windows Update. I am getting tired of this Windows issue. I initially thought it was a hard drive problem, but ~no~... Windows Update. I've got a Windows 10 test partition on the hard drive, and I'm very tempted to get rid of it, but I'm afraid it won't put my Win7 back the way it was... Anyway, I'm back on the main computer again, and going through the audio files and their differences between the versions.

When you made your file list with Yahoo!, were you able to get the "details" to copy over, such as file size, modify date, etc. - that kind of stuff?...

Also, if I get something useful with the sounds, I'll have to PM you for how to properly use Google Drive for upload. It took me a while to figure out how to download stuff. I can only imagine the shear terror I'll put in the Google people's hearts if I try to upload... "Oh no! He's online again, trying to upload to us... Brace for impact!"

Okay folks, here's how to get a text file of the contents of a directory. First it helps to be old--from the days of DOS, because Windows won't cut the cheeze on this one. We're going to use the command line, so hit the Start button unless you have Windows 8 and then just commit suicide. Then in the search box type "cmd" and press <enter>.

You'll get the quaint "command window" which is really a DOS box, or at least the crippled remains of DOS. We still have the tools to get the job done.

Now you'll have to navigate to the directory which contains the ship files. Type "cd c:\ubisoft\SH4FOTRS\data\sea" or whatever directory has the files you want. In mine, if I want the ships in FOTRS 2.0 it would be "cd C:\ubisoft\SH4FOTRS\MODS\FOTRS 2.0\sea." CD means change directory. Capitals don't need to be used because DOS doesn't care about letter case.

Now that you're there, double check by typing "dir." You should see a list of the files on your machine. Good.

Now type "dir > Ships in FOTRS 2.0.txt" It will pour everything you just saw on screen with the last command into a file called FOTRS 2.0.txt in the same directory you're working in.

Of course you can substitute exact directories and file names as you see fit and you are now a certified old person. Congratulations......I think.

Oh, if you type exit and press enter the command box will close.