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Old 07-08-15, 11:56 PM   #1201
Tucker
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Hey I have a question about dud torpedos. When I run the torpedoes fast I get almost all duds which is what there supposed to do early in the war, however when I have them run slow I get nearly perfect performance. Is this supposed to happen or is this a glitch.

Also is there a hotkey for the conning tower position? I've tried nearly every key and haven't found it yet.
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Old 07-09-15, 02:07 PM   #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker View Post
Hey I have a question about dud torpedos. When I run the torpedoes fast I get almost all duds which is what there supposed to do early in the war, however when I have them run slow I get nearly perfect performance. Is this supposed to happen or is this a glitch.

Also is there a hotkey for the conning tower position? I've tried nearly every key and haven't found it yet.
In-game, hit F1 and a help file pops up with tabs to select different help subjects.

If I recall correctly, in Stock F9 either goes to radar or the CT. If radar, right-click and you should back out to the CT view. If in the CR you should be able to right-click to the CT.

In the Game folder there is a Support folder that has the game manual and in that are the key commands toward the end of the PFD..... also in the main Game folder are two JPG files; one is the keyboard layout.

Most super-mods change the keys so use their Readme files to find out.

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Old 07-16-15, 03:20 PM   #1203
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Ok thanks so much I didn't even think about right clicking to go back. And I figured most mods change the key bindings, I played TMO for about half a year give or take and it had a hotkey for the conning tower. I think F9 as a matter of fact if I remember correctly hahah. So I was just curious. But thanks again.
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Old 07-17-15, 03:43 PM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker View Post
Hey I have a question about dud torpedos. When I run the torpedoes fast I get almost all duds which is what there supposed to do early in the war, however when I have them run slow I get nearly perfect performance. Is this supposed to happen or is this a glitch.

Also is there a hotkey for the conning tower position? I've tried nearly every key and haven't found it yet.
Glitch. In practice the torpedoes were almost never set to slow speed. And they were defective no matter what speed they ran. But as a practical matter it was foolish to set torpedoes slow. The faster the torpedo the more accurate your aim.
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Old 08-09-15, 10:11 PM   #1205
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Anyone know if it is possible in either stock or RFB to damage/disable AI engines or propellers? From reading the RFB manual I get the impression that the game can't model damage on specific equipment, only certain compartments? So are there actual functioning engine rooms on AI ships? I've been trying to disable engines with the deck gun, and have confirmed with the external cam multiple holes in the stern right around the prop but this seems to have no effect on the ship's speed.

Also, not sure if this is because of how RFB changes the shells or if its inherent in stock, but the amount of point blank 90 degree 3" deck gun shots I've seen have no penetration against merchant hulls is starting to feel ridiculous. It just feels wrong when I can blow away 3 tanks sitting on the deck with one shot (which look more like T-60's than any actual Japanese tank) but I can pump dozens of rounds into the hull from less than 300 yards and have only 1 or 2 penetrate.

Similarly, do any of the "AA" machine guns have any effect on ships? I've been damaged by machine guns on merchants but my .50 cal seems to have no effect on any part of the deck, hull, or enemy machine gunners. Granted, it's a bit tricky to get a clear shot before the tower armor is cut down, but it would be nice to be able to conserve deck gun ammo and do some damage against those sampans with the MGs.
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Old 08-10-15, 01:29 AM   #1206
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Welcome aboard, goodpoints!

About damage, things like props and engines are modeled, though perhaps not to the level of detail we might desire. Torpedoes can blow off props, for instance. Engine rooms are modeled in the game, but I can't comment on the finer points. Stock may have more limitations in this area. I mostly play RFB.

I don't think the game models crew realistically, meaning you may have to blast the engine room to pieces, before stopping a ship, maiming/killing the crew may not do it. Not sure they are modeled at all, really.

The graphical effects you mention, holes and such, have nothing to do with the damage inflicted. Ships can be sunk without making any visible holes. It is purely eye-candy. Another factor to consider: AI target ships have some repair ability, but I have no idea how this works, or what limitations it has.

Machine-guns and light AA will have an effect, depending on the armor rating of the target and shell. However, you should keep in mind, that in real-life it could take hundreds of medium sized shells to sink a merchant. Don't expect too much from your deck armament.

In RFB, one generally must damage more than one compartment, so the target sinks by flooding. Sometimes this is a slow and tedious process.


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Old 08-10-15, 05:54 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
Welcome aboard, goodpoints!

About damage, things like props and engines are modeled, though perhaps not to the level of detail we might desire. Torpedoes can blow off props, for instance. Engine rooms are modeled in the game, but I can't comment on the finer points. Stock may have more limitations in this area. I mostly play RFB.

I don't think the game models crew realistically, meaning you may have to blast the engine room to pieces, before stopping a ship, maiming/killing the crew may not do it. Not sure they are modeled at all, really.

The graphical effects you mention, holes and such, have nothing to do with the damage inflicted. Ships can be sunk without making any visible holes. It is purely eye-candy. Another factor to consider: AI target ships have some repair ability, but I have no idea how this works, or what limitations it has.

Machine-guns and light AA will have an effect, depending on the armor rating of the target and shell. However, you should keep in mind, that in real-life it could take hundreds of medium sized shells to sink a merchant. Don't expect too much from your deck armament.

In RFB, one generally must damage more than one compartment, so the target sinks by flooding. Sometimes this is a slow and tedious process.


Well that explains a lot. Silly me for assuming holes appear where there actually are holes. Is that not fixable? I haven't seen any mods that address it.

That was my main issue with the deck gun, I had thought I wasn't penetrating at all which would be a separate issue entirely than ships requiring a more accurate amount of shells to sink.

Playing with this new-found knowledge it still seems like AI engines are far too resilient. But this could tie in to the fact that crew in SH4 always go down with the ship rather than abandoning ship when there's serious flooding or fire as is the case in SH5+TWOS.

Thanks for the clarification
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Old 08-11-15, 01:42 AM   #1208
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Well that explains a lot. Silly me for assuming holes appear where there actually are holes. Is that not fixable? I haven't seen any mods that address it.
I doubt this is really fixable. Without there being a specific connection between shell hits and the damage 'decals', I don't see how this could be done. You could probably make it so there are more holes popping up, but there still wouldn't be a 1 to 1 relationship.

Quote:
Playing with this new-found knowledge it still seems like AI engines are far too resilient. But this could tie in to the fact that crew in SH4 always go down with the ship rather than abandoning ship when there's serious flooding or fire as is the case in SH5+TWOS.
That could be so. I've had torpedoed ships recover rather quickly on occasion, but I don't know how, or if, it could be fixed.


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Old 08-11-15, 04:29 PM   #1209
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Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
I doubt this is really fixable. Without there being a specific connection between shell hits and the damage 'decals', I don't see how this could be done. You could probably make it so there are more holes popping up, but there still wouldn't be a 1 to 1 relationship.
Hmm. Does the game only track HP loss to a compartment but not where exactly on that compartment hits land, or something similar? Torpedo hit visual seem to be pretty faithful though, so it seems like there is some specific tracking of impact location there.


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That could be so. I've had torpedoed ships recover rather quickly on occasion, but I don't know how, or if, it could be fixed.
It seems like ships generally slow down after torp hits but I think it might be related to the amount of flooding rather than any tracking of engine damage. Take this ship I sunk today:



2 torp detonations directly astern, yet the ship maintains ~6 knots until the stern goes fully under, I still hear prop rotation in proximity and on the hydro, as well as see the normal prop splash on the surface.

Some other things I noticed today:

The fore-mounted 3" deck gun upgrade seems to be partly nonfunctional on at least the Sargo and Gato classes. On the Sargo, the crew management page shows a crew section for aft gun as well as fore gun (though obviously there should be only 1) but both are blank with no crew slots and the Gato shows no deck gun section at all. Though, with both classes I am still able to manually operate the gun. The manual shows that upgrade available for all fleet boats in March 42 and in both cases I purchased the upgrade after March.


Often when I look through the binoculars at a ship I see this yellow triangle somewhere in the field of view (always on the water though):



It might happen with the TBT, I can't recall offhand, but it definitely happens somewhat often with the binoculars, both during the day and night. I've seen it appear at longer ranges too. I've disabled all mods but RFB 2.0 + patch, so I think it's probably related to RFB. Anyone else seen this?
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Old 08-12-15, 11:55 AM   #1210
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Originally Posted by goodpoints View Post
Some other things I noticed today:

The fore-mounted 3" deck gun upgrade seems to be partly nonfunctional on at least the Sargo and Gato classes. On the Sargo, the crew management page shows a crew section for aft gun as well as fore gun (though obviously there should be only 1) but both are blank with no crew slots and the Gato shows no deck gun section at all. Though, with both classes I am still able to manually operate the gun. The manual shows that upgrade available for all fleet boats in March 42 and in both cases I purchased the upgrade after March.
It appears that some of the UPC files in \Submarines may be corrupted, plus other files, because of the strange deck gun slots and crew slots that are not correct.

When JSGME uninstalls a mod, sometimes all files are not removed correctly and the game files get corrupted.

To avoid reinstalling the entire game, I keep a clean untouched install - (never played) and Copy this install to make install(s) from the original I can mod and play. I use Multi SH4. This way I only need to delete the corrupt \Data folder and drag a clean Copy over from the untouched clean install if my files get corrupted.

(Plus of course, deleting & replacing the JSGME \MODS folder & contents)

There is a temporary fix if you don't want to lose your Career that may correct your gun slots and crew slots:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121472
Coletrains - Problem manually solved. Deck Gun, post #14 but I recommend looking at the entire topic.
- and neumanf15's post:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121460 post #10

Sadly, I think a reinstall may be needed......... Maybe someone will post an alternative (I hope).

Sorry. Happy Hunting anyway, right?
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Last edited by aanker; 08-12-15 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 08-12-15, 08:02 PM   #1211
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Originally Posted by aanker View Post
It appears that some of the UPC files in \Submarines may be corrupted, plus other files, because of the strange deck gun slots and crew slots that are not correct.

When JSGME uninstalls a mod, sometimes all files are not removed correctly and the game files get corrupted.

To avoid reinstalling the entire game, I keep a clean untouched install - (never played) and Copy this install to make install(s) from the original I can mod and play. I use Multi SH4. This way I only need to delete the corrupt \Data folder and drag a clean Copy over from the untouched clean install if my files get corrupted.

(Plus of course, deleting & replacing the JSGME \MODS folder & contents)

There is a temporary fix if you don't want to lose your Career that may correct your gun slots and crew slots:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121472
Coletrains - Problem manually solved. Deck Gun, post #14 but I recommend looking at the entire topic.
- and neumanf15's post:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121460 post #10

Sadly, I think a reinstall may be needed......... Maybe someone will post an alternative (I hope).

Sorry. Happy Hunting anyway, right?

Hm. I know JSGME has a function to save a snapshot of current game files as a backup (Tasks > Take Snapshot...), wouldn't that likely solve the issue without resorting to a reinstall if that were necessary? Not to say that I was wise enough to remember to use said function, but it might be useful info for you. (and me in the future)

Do you know which of those UPC files exactly can be corrupted? Are they stock files or RFB files, the only ones I see in my /Submarine folder are RFB files. Which, in that case: I would think disabling RFB via JSGME, deleting the RFB folder in /MODS, and reextracting/reenabling RFB would overwrite any lingering corrupt files with clean RFB files. Does RFB save any specific user data that would mess up a current save by removing it?

Fortunately I do have a save before I transferred subs and got the upgrade, so that might give me some options. (or I can always forego the upgrade for this career if the bug, hopefully, only applies to the one upgrade) I'm currently playing some SH5, so next time I start up SH4 I will try some of those fixes (after I back up my game directory) and report back.


Unrelated to above:

Has anyone explored the possibility of automated scripts, as have been created with SH5, for SH4? I appreciate RFB staying as close to possible to historic crew rosters and procedures, but manually moving (and remembering to do so) the 2 planesmen from deck watch to Control every time you dive can be a slight hassle. It would be great it you could just run a script that would automatically do those dive procedures; as well as stuff like rigging for depth charges, sending an engine crew to damage control, manning deck/AA guns with a pre-selected crew, etc.
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Old 08-13-15, 02:08 AM   #1212
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2 torp detonations directly astern, yet the ship maintains ~6 knots until the stern goes fully under, I still hear prop rotation in proximity and on the hydro, as well as see the normal prop splash on the surface.
I don't know why this would happen, unless it is just a matter of the ship moving forward on the basis of it's momentum.

As far as crew evolutions, I can't help you there. However, most of the operation of the sub does not require crew. I know that sounds absurd, but it is true (unfortunately).

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Old 08-13-15, 05:04 AM   #1213
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Regarding Post #1209
Same thing happened to me using SH5.
Still chugging along at 6 knots.





It did eventually sink.


Strange that it happens in both SH4 and SH5.
Of course it asks the question whether it also happens in SH3.

Peter

Last edited by THEBERBSTER; 08-13-15 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 08-13-15, 12:34 PM   #1214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpoints View Post
Hm. I know JSGME has a function to save a snapshot of current game files as a backup (Tasks > Take Snapshot...), wouldn't that likely solve the issue without resorting to a reinstall if that were necessary? Not to say that I was wise enough to remember to use said function, but it might be useful info for you. (and me in the future)

Do you know which of those UPC files exactly can be corrupted? Are they stock files or RFB files, the only ones I see in my /Submarine folder are RFB files. Which, in that case: I would think disabling RFB via JSGME, deleting the RFB folder in /MODS, and reextracting/reenabling RFB would overwrite any lingering corrupt files with clean RFB files. Does RFB save any specific user data that would mess up a current save by removing it?
Yes, check the snapshot and see what's different. It compares what files are installed now, to what was installed at the time you took it.

There are so many files that interact with \submarines, it could be time consuming to track this down.

If the snapshot is different, it may be reparable....... or if not, maybe 'commit' to RFB, reinstall RFB, its Patch, and RSRD again if you use it. That would overwrite any error in RFB, but you'd lose your clean unmodded Stock.

You'd think the older Saves should/might be compatible with a clean, corrected RFB install - if that is the cause. I'm not sure how this all too common deck gun error happens. I am no expert modder, I only know a few things, so I'm not certain but I'm thinking this error probably begins with the Sub class upgrade, or a major upgrade to the boat, and Saved games remembers and tracks that.

Too avoid a lot of this with the super mods, I extract them on a clean install of Stock, add their patch, and then use that configuration as a starting point to install JSGME. (I won't be able to uninstall RFB or its patch). I only use JSGME for small mods on that RFB install.

That's me. GB are cheap nowadays with these huge HD's, and it's only 5 GB for each install, and Multi-SH4 is great.
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Old 10-07-15, 01:49 PM   #1215
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Cheers gentlemen,

just played a while in this mod after some time.

About the damage to screws:
I just happen to hit so far at stern, that only the screw was blown away, obviously no damage to the hull. The ship stopped after a short time, and did not move further until it sank.

But I have a question, too:
I noticed a strange thing about enemy destroyers: They did not attack me with depth charges, even though they had a 100% sure position of me. Crossed over my position time after time, but never throwed a charge. Is this sort of a bug, or are they just out of ammo if this happens?

Sometimes the depth charging works, but it seems to be the fewer number of cases.

Thanks for any hint.


And by the way: A really gread mod this is!
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