Drug Raid Turns Ugly as SWAT Guns Down Marine Vet

[Feuer Frei!]

What began as a carefully orchestrated drug raid by Arizona police ended in chaos, bloodshed and outrage. Now, a young Marine veteran is dead, leaving his wife and two young boys to mourn for him on this Memorial Day, after he made it through two tours in Iraq.
The tragic assault also opened a rare window into the military-style tactics and equipment of police Special Weapons Assault Teams locked in a bloody war with Mexican drug cartels — including military-style armored vehicles and two types of robots also found on the battlefields of Afghanistan.
The May 5 assault by a Pima County SWAT team on an address on Red Water Street, outside Tucson, was meant to apprehend a suspected member of a “rip crew” — a team of heavily-armed thugs, working for one of the cartels, that steals drugs from rival cartels. The special-weapons team, made up of at least seven men and seen in the leaked helmet-camera footage above, would pull up in a “Bearcat” vehicle — a sort of law-enforcement-optimized Humvee. Then they’d bust into the single-story house, hold the occupants at gunpoint and serve a search warrant, looking for drugs, illegal weapons and other evidence of cartel involvement. Just another day for a team accustomed to risky missions.
But something went very wrong. And within seconds of ramming in the door, the SWAT team opened fire, killing Jose Guerena, the owner of the house. Guerena, a 26-year-old Marine veteran, reportedly confronted the police with an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle, possibly to protect his wife and kids, who were huddled in rooms behind him.
The SWAT team initially said Guerena shot first; later reports claimed Guerena never fired — indeed, he never took his AR-15 off “safe.” The Medical Examiner counted 22 bullet wounds in Guerena’s body after the raid, CNN reported. Other chilling details can be found in SWAT commander Bob Krygier’s post-operation interview with a Pima County detective.

After the brief but intense gunfight, the SWAT troopers pulled back, out of the house that had filled with smoke from discharging weapons. They didn’t know if the house’s defender was dead or alive … or alone. After luring Guerena’s family out of the house using a megaphone, Krygier decided to deploy the team’s first robot — a tossable “throw-bot,” equipped with a simple video camera.
Throw-bots have been around for years. But the machines have serious limitations. The Israeli army, one of the biggest throw-bot users, has complained that using a throw-bot early in an assault can sacrifice the element of surprise. What could be more obvious than a several-pound robot crashing through a window to land at your feet? That might explain why Krygier waited until after the first round of fighting to send the team’s throw-bot sailing into the house.


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[NeonSamurai]

Well that is unfortunate. SWAT teams generally have the right to shoot anyone who is acting in a life threatening way such as pointing a firearm at anyone else. So if he had his AR-15 raised and pointing in the general direction of the SWAT team, or started to raise it, the shooting is legitimate even if the weapon had its safety on (or even if it proved not to be a real gun at all).

However there are a few concerns, first off is the number of hits on the victim. SWAT teams are trained to fire short controled bursts of 2-5 rounds, so either practically the entire team shot at him, or one or more officers were not in control of themselves. I have to doubt that the entire team had entered when the shooting started so I suspect the latter. According to the swat commander he though they fired 100 rounds.

I am also wondering if they followed proper procedure, and why they didn't use a flashbang on entry.

[Dowly]

Seeing the video, I doubt anyone inside didn't know the police was right outside (they weren't exactly quiet). So, that should be a pretty good hint for anyone inside not to do anything stupid, you know, like pick up an AR-15 for example.

[Stealhead]

I am not saying the ex Marine was guilty but military service does not mean that a person is going to be law abiding while they are in or out of the military.There is a reason that we have military police after all.It is curious though that the man had body armor and a Border Patrol hat things that those working for cartels also often have.I find more than one set of body armor odd as well why all the gear?The evidence is questionable I do not know many ex military guys that have law enforcement gear unless they work in law enforcement and I know none that have full body armor the weapons sound normal for an ex military sets of body armor and police gear when not employed as police(law enforcement) combined is not normal.It sounds to me like this story gets attention because the suspect was ex military and had been in combat those tow things do not exclude the possibility that Guerena may have been involved in criminal activity.Some of this story is fact much of it is assumption until more information is provided.It is unfortunate that Guerena died this way it is even more saddening to me that it is possible that this man may have chosen to lead a life of crime.

Not sure I agree with the number of rounds the rule of thumb is also fire until the threat is suppressed.One of the terrorists that the SAS killed during the Embassy raid back in 1980 was hit 70 times in a CQC situation lots of rounds are going to fired and hit.Clearly those SAS men where far better trained than a SWAT team is if only 4 men fired that is 5.5 rounds of the 22 that hit 4.4 if 5 men fired not that high in a CQB there are 4 or 5 men that could have fired from the view we can see and you say 2-5 rounds from this many 22 rounds is within those limits.Flash bags are not always used either I have a friend who is a cop in Baltimore he and others have had to serve high risk warrants without flash bangs many times.

I think the 100 rounds is an exaggeration he was speaking figuratively not literally.
I dont really like the view of the article it does not prove that Guerena was not involved in the Cartels it just says that no drugs where found in his home.But hwy did he do what he did
when you can tell that it was made very clear that the police where outside? Was he involved in the cartel and realize that he was trapped choose go down?Was he suffering mental illness and though truly not involved in crime choose this way to die?What reasons did the police suspect that he was a Cartel ripper? they must have been fairly strong to have gained a warrant.

[Sailor Steve]

Too many questions. Broad daylight, so it could be easily seen that they were indeed the police, and heavily armed and armored, so fighting them was certainly not a good idea.

On the other hand, did they identify themselves from outside and give him a chance to surrender, or was kicking in the door the very first thing that happened?

Too many questions.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Too many questions. Broad daylight, so it could be easily seen that they were indeed the police, and heavily armed and armored, so fighting them was certainly not a good idea.

On the other hand, did they identify themselves from outside and give him a chance to surrender, or was kicking in the door the very first thing that happened?

Here's the video:


It'd be quite obvious to me that it is the police at the door.

Also, it is hard to hear, but you can hear the SWAT members yelling at the door before they breach it.

[CCIP]

I feel like pointing out that none of this would've happened if there was no gun in the house, much like certain people like to point out in other scenarios where they think a gun would've saved lives... but then that's somewhat inappropriate in this case.

The fact is that nothing is obvious in any of the videos and it's most likely the result of both parties reacting badly in the circumstances. I think jumping to either side's defense is unnecessary here.

[Stealhead]

I agree way to many questions on both sides here you cant come to a reasonable conclusion until first they provide proof that Guerena was or was not involved with the cartels this would explain much indeed but if so then you know why he had the AR in the house I'd like to know the location of the body armor might Guerena have been heading to get it when they came into the door?

For the police what was the evidence of Guerenas cartel involvement?An informant, another cartel member dropping the dime,undercover surveillance? Did they have any knowledge what he may do if confronted?

[NeonSamurai]

Well it certainly is possible the guy was involved with the cartels. It has long been a concern in law enforcement circles that criminal gangs have been infiltrating the military to gain military combat training, which they then pass on to the rest of the gang. It was also blatantly obvious that this was a police raid, and one has to wonder why the suspect grabbed a weapon (unless he was already carrying it which is also suspicious).

From the video though, I do not think the SWAT team acted appropriately once the shooting started, in that they were not firing in a controlled manner, but were more panic shooting. The entry was also very sloppy, suggesting they have been doing far to many of these and had gotten lax.

[Stealhead]

I know for a fact this has been a trend for many years also with white supremacist groups as well.I can recall once back in the 90s at my first duty station a Senior Airman (E-4) from my unit one day some OSI(Office of Special Investigations USAF) folks came and took him away in cuffs.We all wondered WTH was going on but our senior NCOs would not tell us.A few weeks later they informed us that the E-4 had been IDed in the video of an active LA gang member bragging about killing rival gang members and running guns.The LAPD showed it to the FBI who showed it to the OSI they where able to find out who he was and did some undercover observation on him(which explained where a reserve guy that was at our shop for a few weeks really came from) Turns out he had killed people in gang warfare while on active duty and he was also involved in gun thefts from DOD with other USAF and US Army troops.

The Turner Dairies which was a huge influence on Timothy McVeigh and his cohorts encourages this infiltration training as well and currently there "Lone Wolf" groups in the US whose members are encouraged to infiltrate military and law enforcement and to "wait for the right time or revolution" to perform their "true" duties of course as a benifit they are also being trained by their enemy.

I bet that they are still up in Kansas breaking rocks today.Not saying for sure that this Marine was the same but I have no doubt of the possibility.And some do not get caught.

True on your thoughts Neon.It looks like one of them tripped in the doorway(of course ---- happens as well) the one outside with the shotty looked like he wanted to hide when the gunfire started was that from being over worked or not much experience?Some departments are so busy just with HRWs(high risk warrants) that the normal SWAT guys cant perform them all in most cases SWAT troops perform their regular beat(no pun intended) duty and are called in when needed to perform SWAT but they lose regular beat cops if they go on so many HRW calls I understand in some states they even have to contract out folks to be most of the HRW team and have one or two cops to "serve" the warrant the contracted folks are likely off duty cops with who knows what level of training is a HRW situation.In some parts of the US these HRWs are going on 24/7 highlighting the effects of drugs and the war on drugs in the US and I think it will only get worse.

My friend the Baltimore police he told me the first time he had to breach a house it was because a man was going to shot himself but he did not have a gun in his hand so they wanted to kick the door in and stop him from going into another room.They just gave my buddy one of the shields and told him to rush in once they kicked in the door that's it luckily they did tackle the man before he could shot himself but most of the cops had never done such a thing before including my friend the brass told the Sargent no SWAT available figure it out.

[Freiwillige]

I also read (Not confirmed) that the lead swat member stated that when he breached the door and began entry the target screamed I got something for you while raising his rifle.

[Stealhead]

Needless to say I am sure many a going to watching this story as better confirmed information comes out.