My hate-love with IL-2

[Skybird]

A few days ago I bought a smile price edition of (a new, sealed) 1946, together with the addon Word War II. Unfortunately, the disc 1 did not install, nor could I open it manually - the disc made the hd and the discdrive crazy, I strongly assume that the secuRom messed up things there. It ended with me breaking the disc in to after patience died out, maybe you have read and smiled about my small thread on it at simHQ back then. Not much money lost, so no real damage done.

I then decided to do once again, after a very long absence, the installation tango with my old copies of of FB, ACE, PF, together with the needed steps in adding files and language settings in the registry, and then patching it up. I then installed the WWII addon, and started a german full career.

It really makes a difference, that career addon, and helps to get over the known traditional weakness of IL2, which is atmosphere. Things are not optimal, but better than if fiddling around with Uberdemon's QMG.

However, the same old symptoms that have spoiled fun for me in earlier times, appeared again. AI pilots handling their engines and propellers absolutely perfectly and uberhuman, since they handle binary code, and do not react to simulated events like the human player. Planes all of a sudden go zooming away in sprint. My Bf109F, that is supposed to have advantages in speed and acceleration over that opposing fighter model and already flying 500+ km/h, getting overtaken by that thing on my six that all of a sudden behaves as having a liquidised superman in it's tank. The 3x360-all-aspect viewing bubble around the AI, making it see me even if I am approaching it from under it or behind it were the pilot is supposed not to be able to see me, since the AI does not care for viewing aspects, only for contact distances. The better the pilot setting, the more robust not only his manouvering, but also the armour of his plane?! - well, this feature tops it all, and has nothing to do with simulation anymore! that is pure arcade style. What is just missing is the big end-level boss at the end of an air duel.

These are things that I always thought to really cripple the simulation claim of IL-2 in SP. I am very much aware that I do not fly in a simulated reality, but in an arcade-game where the player somewhat gets "cheated" due to the symptoms above. a real sim would need to make the AI behave within the natural limits of being human, that is: no superperfect handling of mixture and cooler and propeller within just split sconds, no x-ray eyes, etc. It would be all nice and fair if they would only promote the game as a MP exlcusive event only, to be sued online only and exclusively, but to call it a simulation in SP is a bit too optimistic. Add to it weaknesses in the handling concept, like that you cannot manually change waypoints, and your squad, after having drifted off from the flightpath due to a large battle, not just proceeding back to the next waypoint, but flies back to the old one it has already passed by a huge distance, before it turns for the next that it already had reached before.

I now read and searched over these issues more than I have ever done before in recent years, and found my observations all confirmed and well-known to the community. I also found hints for AI mods.

I downloaded one of these, in version 3.0, it built a mod folder in the installation folder of the game, there is a AI_mod folder, and inside of it there are four files and a readme listing the version changes. As far as I am aware I installed it correctly, according to the instructions (it was an autoinstaller that was just pointed to the installation folder of IL-2).

However, I fail to see the big effect. All the symptoms I described above are still rpesent, both in QMG missions, and the campaign.

My question now is are there any alternative mods to improve the bad symptoms I complained about? Else I already can see my interest dying in the near future again, like it has died in the years before repeatedly, and this time probably forever. I mean, doing dogfights in F4AF is much more rewarding with guns-only and gives me not such an intense feeling of getting "cheated" in the way I described above, with no Uber-AI having 360°-all-aspect eyes that can see through the airframe, and Warp-engine superboosters suddenly overtaking a well-handled, trimmed opponent assumed to have a superior engine, etc.

Currently I like the campaign addon and I also like the looks of sky, sunlight and clouds in IL-2 and I cannot share complaints of how bad the game nowaday looks due to it's age, in the opinion of some people. I would really appreciate a massive improvement in the AI issues, and then maybe stay with IL-2, finally. but the way it is now, the marriage is doomed to get divorced again. and nobody can tell me I haven't tried - I tried repeatedly since the very first IL-2.

Any tips for improving the AI in SP? Just telling me to go online you must not, I am not interested in that aspect of it. I am exclusively talking about offline management.

[Biggles]

What is this World War II addon you speak of? Link?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Biggles

What is this World War II addon you speak of? Link?

http://www.desastersoft.com/index.ph...830cd56d86c08d

They made other addons in the past that you may have heared off, "Fall Blau" and "Banzai" and "Overlord" (all included on the WWII disc as bonus material). Their latest products, "Der Stern von Afrika" and "Der Eismeerjäger", are said to be looking very good and being a good package, even with huge print maps. On German Amazon, they get scored 5 stars from users, almost exclusively.

WWII gives you several static campaigns with hand-drawn missions, and the number goes into the thousands. The German big campaign for BF-109 goes over 650 missions, for example, leading you through four years, and several plane updates and map changes, from the Krim over Moscow and Stalingrad to the Westfront and finally Berlin. Many other, shorter campaings for British, Russians and Americans are included, too, plus the mentioned three older addons.

Pretty much bang for your buck. I bought it in bundle with 1946 for less than 10 euros.

The latest addons of them also feature new skins, and printed maps.

[XabbaRus]

These addons they make, are they not just a series of missions with hugely populated maps, all done in the FMB.

If so I have always had a problem paying for campaigns that have been made in the FMB which with all due respect have just taken time in someones life but using tools everyone has access to.

Anyway are those the things that create the atmosphere?

[Skybird]

Well, nobody forces you to try them, Xabba. For SP, you just have four options. The inbuilt QMG, very inferior. UberDemon'S QMG (better, but no fun to handle, and still takes time until you go airborn), the dynamic campaign generator (stopped using it after some flights, years ago), and static campaigns with hand-built missions. whether oyu are willing to pay money for them, or try free ones, is up to you, and depends on the focus of these campaigns, their size, and your interest in their content.

the general advantage of a static campaign mission over a dynamic campaign is that the first is hand-written. and if the author put some thought into it, it's design will always beat whatever results an AI-written dynamic campaign can present in mission design. If the platform, the sim the mission is written for, offers according possibilities, it can happen that the player in a static mission does not realise that he is up against a non-human enemy, but that the enemy gives the impression of behaving like a human. this is not the case in IL2, but I think of SBP, for example, or COTA (Conquest of the Aegean). don't get me wrong, I love the dynamic campaign in F4. However, I spend most time correcting the suicidal mission setups the AI creates en masse. the dynamic campaign creates a great overall setting, a great general experience with much atmosphere. But the individual mission design it results in - is terrible. Not even mentioning strategic decisions by the AI, which is territory completely off limits for the AI.

The WWII addon I just took because it was bundled with 1946, which costed me together with the bundled addon 8,99. I would not have gotten it for it'S original full price: 30 Euros wouldn't be worth it for me.

The campaign I started indeed creates kind of a history, it tells "my story" through the war, with a density of daily missions and changes in assignements that they said could be seen as typical for the normal, usual German pilot career. there are the occasional "unnormal" missions as well, too. For example in the evening I was ordered together with the whole squadron to fly our old Bf109-E7s to a northern airfield away fromt he front, where they would be updated, and the next flight the next morning saw us flying our new F2s back to our home base closer to the front. I do not know if I will fly all the 650 missions, probably not , but in the booklet they discribed what lies ahhead of me if I make it up to the end in 1945, which includes changes in the enemy's planes as well, shifting force baances in the air, growing tactical pressure and fuel shortages, and when traversing to the West front, finding inferior German pilots in my squad needing to fight against Allied pilots with much better training.

So, within the limits of the game itself, they indeed try to tell the story of the war, and the story of one pilot in it - the player. Since IL-2 by default is extremely poor in atmosphere, this really is an improvement that you cannot achieve by just having a set of let's say the same 12 static missions time and again.

But back to the original topic: does naybody know how to improve the realism of the behavior of AI pilots? Any alternative AI mods?

[Skybird]

Just was given confirmation that the AI planes do not have overheating engines. Another biggy with AI plane behaviour. Think I can stop to outrun enemy planes then.

Considering that the game is around since so many years now, but these things not having dealt with by the developer, while he just was bringing up more and more "flying matchbox car models" and leave it to that, does not boost my sympathy.

Too much about looks, too less about sim. Probably time to eject from it. That installation took me close to one hour, with all tweaks and setups and needed manual change in the registry to get it running.

[Dowly]

I've given up on IL2 for pretty much the reasons you've listed. Tho, I still fly it occasionally, but that's more of taking a joyride in a 109E than actual combat.

Just sad that a genre like WWII airwar sims is dying out, more or less because of the position IL2 holds on the market.

[HunterICX]

as many times and many stated that IL2 has been build to be more of a Online game then it does SP..because just look at what SP has to offer it's a joke.
The reason I avoid SP is because what has been stated above, the AI is indeed annoying but it isn't going to change if you complain about it I have lived to deal with it when I play with my friends online, I have a great time great chat with them and thats all I need to have a great sortie in IL2 flying alongside them.

for SP I use the game BoBII: Wings of Victory, the athmosphere is great and the AI's behavious is just the best I've seen. they at least behave like aircraft and don't have these uberhuman skills like in IL2.

the only thing I hope for that Storm Of War corrects the flaw IL2 has, also raises the bar on dificulty because I find IL2 to be too friendly towards the player pilot (engine mangement, flight model etc)

Originally Posted by Dowly

Just sad that a genre like WWII airwar sims is dying out, more or less because of the position IL2 holds on the market.

I don't think its IL2, like with Naval sims from WW2 (SH series)
there aren't just many devs that devote time and resources in it.

HunterICX

[Skybird]

Well, IL2 then at least is a huge waste of potential. They had enough time to form the models and skins and cockpits for 300+ planes, which always has made me laughing. If only a tenth of that time would have been invested into AI and flightmodels, and another tenth of time into improving menues, presentation, campaign and atmosphere, IL2 probably would have been a totally different ballgame today. Does not speak for the competence and originality of the developer, imo. the message seems to be that they do not know how to create good results beyond the model construction area. Which makes me somewhat pessimistic about the upcoming Battle-of-Britain game of theirs. I am willing to bet that the main difference will be in the visual area, with basic game functions and AI being very much the same. i expect to see comparable weaknesses in that title, like in IL2.

Oh, I have flown another mission two hours ago, and then searched for a better AI mod again and found none - and then deinstalled it all together. Simply not worth to invest more time into it. This probably has been the last time I tried with IL2. Somehow it reminds me of "Steel Fury" last autumn - also a lot of potential, but then failing in the realism and AI and simulation details, making it just another game amongst many.


Hunter,

I have read a lot of bad stuff about BoBII, that it still is not stable, does not run on many system, is still buggy, and such. What is your experience?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I have read a lot of bad stuff about BoBII, that it still is not stable, does not run on many system, is still buggy, and such. What is your experience?

They gone to great lenghts on improving the game when BDG took over. It's very stable atm, tho there is some slowdowns with massive bombing missions. Shouldnt be that costy anymore, so have a try with it. Atleast you get good AI if all else fails.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dowly

They gone to great lenghts on improving the game when BDG took over. It's very stable atm, tho there is some slowdowns with massive bombing missions. Shouldnt be that costy anymore, so have a try with it. Atleast you get good AI if all else fails.

I checked German Amazon, and the reviewers doomed it for all eternity, quoting it's notorious instability. Maybe I try it when I can get a second hand copy absolutely cheap.

Well, I have other good sim and strategy stuff which stood the test of time, so maybe propeller dogfights are not as essential for me as I once again imagined for the last couple of days...

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I checked German Amazon, and the reviewers doomed it for all eternity, quoting it's notorious instability. Maybe I try it when

BoB II was a nightmare when it came out. ALOT has happened since, BDG took over and are continuosly patching and adding/improving stuff to the game. 2.10 came out just maybe a month ago or so and they are nowhere near done with it.

[Skybird]

Okay, I watched some videos on Youtube and liked most of what I saw. Went to amazon Market place and secured my copy "as new" for 10 Euros. I also already secured patch 2.10.

If I don't like the game, I'll headstart for Finland, jump onto your position and turn your head by 270°, Dowly.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If I don't like the game, I'll headstart for Finland, jump onto your position and turn your head by 270°, Dowly.

Uh oh...

[Skybird]

BTW, is there a community site with resources, essentials, replacements, any vital stuff?