Do the planes use some 'magic' ?

XenonSurf · 11-05-17, 12:07 PM

Hi,
I'm a few hours in the game going through the tutorial missions.

My first impression of the game...
...is a good one, especially the presentation, manual and in-game tutorial is really helpful. I appreciate the indepth historical context too. What I miss are some dedicated screens at least for TMA and navigation, the player should think he is in a real boat and not in some kind of movie, maybe some 2D/3D walkaround in the boat would largely increase the game immersion. The realtime outside 3D view is of course awesome but very unrealistic, real skippers would give their right legs to have such a view in combat...But then: Fortunately undetected things are not shown, good thing.
Well done Killerfish Games

On to my title subject:
In the torpedo tutorial, I had the idea to make use of the radar on the surface to attract the plane flying around and see how it reacts. Soon he came finding me, and I was not successful in evading his droped torpedo which damaged my hull down to 31% and a complete flooding in the propulsion room. I was able to contain the flooding and evade and here comes the 'strange and magic' part of the hunt: I changed course and depth several times, however the plane was at some point always flying over me and I could see blinking sonobuoys very near to my real position. But no more torpedos droped, was he out of stock after only 1 drop? That would be a game bug I think.
Unless I misunderstand these blinking buoys. I find it strange that whatever I do, whatever course underwater I take, at some point the plane 'magically' overflies my exact position and a blinking marker appears nearby. Is this normal, what's up with this ??

Thanks to feedback, cheers,

Delgard · 11-05-17, 02:46 PM

One at a time...in my play...

Depending on the aircraft, they have torpedoes, dipping sonar (helos), dropped sonar sensors (aircraft), bombs, and a Magnetic Alloy Detector (MAD). You have to know your enemy's air assets in your scenario/campaign.

Napoleon once said, "If I make it look easy, it is because I prepared well".

I think there is some immersion in that. CW runs a balance between simulator and game. Other SUBSIMS take similar or different approaches. CW, being a new release, has great graphics and KFG's take on being a sub Commander during each time period.

Both sides, and we, for the most part, only see the Soviet capabilities and that is for the campaign/scenario timeframe. Whether they were good, or bad, KFG works hard to give accuracy. There is also some tweaking ability if you tinker with file settings (be careful) but no ability to add "walk around" or manual operating of stations to any degree. The idea, as I perceive it and want it, is for the crew to do that labor and let me sit in my chair, drink coffee, and think tactics.

With that in mind, I like the crew to be informative so that I can think tactics and push minimal buttons on my CDR's tablet.

The use of the camera is actually optional to each player. If you don't appreciate the graphics/game attitude in that way, don't use it.

Going back to the air assets, they are what they are, nothing less, nothing more. As the Skipper, I just read, practice, understand. For one thing, I don't think I have ever raised a mast. Once a pilot sniffs me I expect him to be good at his job using his assets. I expect that and I want that from my own crew.

It is good to tinker, I have. But, I stop doing a technique when it turns out bad.

Keep going, it is KFG's idea of being a submarine commander.

XenonSurf · 11-05-17, 04:58 PM

Yes Delgard, I agree that this is much more a commander view of all the game, not a SUB technician job to handle the TMA desk precisely or so.
As for planes, I remember vaguely that in Red Storm Rising I was making some crazy surfacings which would get some of my crew with equiped SA missiles shooting helicopters. I wonder if this reflects reality

Another difference: No 'Sea Lance' missiles in the weapon stock.

My first campaign was a disaster, I hit the wrong key command for quick surfacing instead of emergency diving while in a battle against ships...The result is not difficult to guess...

ETR3(SS) · 11-05-17, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

As for planes, I remember vaguely that in Red Storm Rising I was making some crazy surfacings which would get some of my crew with equiped SA missiles shooting helicopters. I wonder if this reflects reality

If I had a nickel for every time someone brought up SAM's in relation to CW, I could retire tomorrow. There was experimentation done in the past but nothing made it to an operational phase. The idea just doesn't work.

LogicalLobster · 11-05-17, 10:16 PM

The german type 212 is equiped with anti air missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDAS_(missile)

XenonSurf · 11-07-17, 01:52 PM

Planes and Helos are a terrible thread indeed. I use the Moss torpedo to fool them, but the game gives me a very hard time to evade torpedos and bombs. It's very well done and the 3D outside look is actually a necessity for emergency navigation, not a cheat as I supposed.

Capt Jack Harkness · 11-07-17, 03:58 PM

Do the planes use some magic? Yes. The current MAD implementation makes the sensor much more accurate than they are in real life. In game MAD gives the aircraft an exact location if you’re within its range. In real life it’s a long range metal detector like you see treasure hunters using, all you get is some kind of blip on the screen that says you “may” have just flown over a sub.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Julhelm · 11-07-17, 05:25 PM

IRL the aircraft drops smoke once it has a MAD detection so it is a very accurate sensor.

Barleyman · 11-07-17, 07:47 PM

I hate that TLAM mission. You are right up to the coast in the beginning where it's practically a suicide to start launching cruise missiles.. Especially with 7.5min loading delay so you have to expose yourself three times.

That bear will find you every time. Interestingly it only seems to have one or two torpedoes and some depth charges so it is actually possible to get "away" from it but it'll follow you along while you're doing your exfil in those shallow waters. Dropping sonobuoys with pretty point blank accuracy to boot.

Alternatively you can spend about an hour in real time to get as far away as possible from the target zone.

XenonSurf · 11-07-17, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barleyman

I hate that TLAM mission. You are right up to the coast in the beginning where it's practically a suicide to start launching cruise missiles.. Especially with 7.5min loading delay so you have to expose yourself three times.

That bear will find you every time. Interestingly it only seems to have one or two torpedoes and some depth charges so it is actually possible to get "away" from it but it'll follow you along while you're doing your exfil in those shallow waters. Dropping sonobuoys with pretty point blank accuracy to boot.

Alternatively you can spend about an hour in real time to get as far away as possible from the target zone.

Yep, I find that in CW launching missiles is the hell tough... As soon as your missile leaves water they know where you are. So helos and missiles are heading to your position. Soon after launch I go to flank speed and dive as low as possible but with low balast and planes down so I get as far away in minimum time.
But despite of that I often get sunk because I have to deal with 3 or more torpedos that drop too near to my position, I can evade them for some time but at some point it's RIP for me...

Currently I'm facing an interesting situation with a Victor III playing the russian side of the campaign (with a mod): I sunk all cargo ships but suddenly my flooding alert pops up, I had to battle against patrols first so I took 2 torpedos and 25% hull only. After some time my repair crew cannot enter the compartment anymore, so I have to navigate on the surface at low speed, but I cannot end the mission without abandoning ship

Barleyman · 11-07-17, 08:15 PM

In that land attack mission you need to take out the patrol ships first as some of them have ASW missiles.. Of course given TLAM range you shouldn't have to get anywhere that near to the base to start with.

Launching missiles is best left for taking out merchants or landing ships you don't want to chase down for ages. When we get the 688i, at least you can put out a pretty respectable first strike with the VLS. 16x TASM would ruin anyone's day.

Capt Jack Harkness · 11-08-17, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

IRL the aircraft drops smoke once it has a MAD detection so it is a very accurate sensor.

You’re right of course. Forgot about that bit. (Madman! Madman! Dropping smoke!) Any chance we’ll get VFX for those markers?

GoldenRivet · 11-08-17, 06:56 PM

Im confused as to how an aircraft can detect the sub without any sort of mechanisms in the water.

The Bandit · 11-08-17, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Im confused as to how an aircraft can detect the sub without any sort of mechanisms in the water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_anomaly_detector

GoldenRivet · 11-08-17, 08:00 PM

so the magnetic anomaly detector can detect a sturgeon class submarine at 1200 foot deep?

with the accuracy i might add - to drop a torpedo down the hatch?

edit: seems rather incredible

11-05-17, 12:07 PM	#1
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,703 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	Do the planes use some 'magic' ? Hi, I'm a few hours in the game going through the tutorial missions. My first impression of the game... ...is a good one, especially the presentation, manual and in-game tutorial is really helpful. I appreciate the indepth historical context too. What I miss are some dedicated screens at least for TMA and navigation, the player should think he is in a real boat and not in some kind of movie, maybe some 2D/3D walkaround in the boat would largely increase the game immersion. The realtime outside 3D view is of course awesome but very unrealistic, real skippers would give their right legs to have such a view in combat...But then: Fortunately undetected things are not shown, good thing. Well done Killerfish Games On to my title subject: In the torpedo tutorial, I had the idea to make use of the radar on the surface to attract the plane flying around and see how it reacts. Soon he came finding me, and I was not successful in evading his droped torpedo which damaged my hull down to 31% and a complete flooding in the propulsion room. I was able to contain the flooding and evade and here comes the 'strange and magic' part of the hunt: I changed course and depth several times, however the plane was at some point always flying over me and I could see blinking sonobuoys very near to my real position. But no more torpedos droped, was he out of stock after only 1 drop? That would be a game bug I think. Unless I misunderstand these blinking buoys. I find it strange that whatever I do, whatever course underwater I take, at some point the plane 'magically' overflies my exact position and a blinking marker appears nearby. Is this normal, what's up with this ?? Thanks to feedback, cheers,

11-08-17, 06:56 PM	#13
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,710 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Im confused as to how an aircraft can detect the sub without any sort of mechanisms in the water. __________________

11-08-17, 08:00 PM	#15
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,710 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	so the magnetic anomaly detector can detect a sturgeon class submarine at 1200 foot deep? with the accuracy i might add - to drop a torpedo down the hatch? edit: seems rather incredible __________________

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11-05-17, 02:46 PM	#2
Delgard Skipper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	One at a time...in my play... Depending on the aircraft, they have torpedoes, dipping sonar (helos), dropped sonar sensors (aircraft), bombs, and a Magnetic Alloy Detector (MAD). You have to know your enemy's air assets in your scenario/campaign. Napoleon once said, "If I make it look easy, it is because I prepared well". I think there is some immersion in that. CW runs a balance between simulator and game. Other SUBSIMS take similar or different approaches. CW, being a new release, has great graphics and KFG's take on being a sub Commander during each time period. Both sides, and we, for the most part, only see the Soviet capabilities and that is for the campaign/scenario timeframe. Whether they were good, or bad, KFG works hard to give accuracy. There is also some tweaking ability if you tinker with file settings (be careful) but no ability to add "walk around" or manual operating of stations to any degree. The idea, as I perceive it and want it, is for the crew to do that labor and let me sit in my chair, drink coffee, and think tactics. With that in mind, I like the crew to be informative so that I can think tactics and push minimal buttons on my CDR's tablet. The use of the camera is actually optional to each player. If you don't appreciate the graphics/game attitude in that way, don't use it. Going back to the air assets, they are what they are, nothing less, nothing more. As the Skipper, I just read, practice, understand. For one thing, I don't think I have ever raised a mast. Once a pilot sniffs me I expect him to be good at his job using his assets. I expect that and I want that from my own crew. It is good to tinker, I have. But, I stop doing a technique when it turns out bad. Keep going, it is KFG's idea of being a submarine commander.

11-05-17, 04:58 PM	#3
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,703 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	Yes Delgard, I agree that this is much more a commander view of all the game, not a SUB technician job to handle the TMA desk precisely or so. As for planes, I remember vaguely that in Red Storm Rising I was making some crazy surfacings which would get some of my crew with equiped SA missiles shooting helicopters. I wonder if this reflects reality Another difference: No 'Sea Lance' missiles in the weapon stock. My first campaign was a disaster, I hit the wrong key command for quick surfacing instead of emergency diving while in a battle against ships...The result is not difficult to guess...

11-05-17, 10:16 PM	#5
LogicalLobster Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: seattle Posts: 12 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The german type 212 is equiped with anti air missiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDAS_(missile)

11-07-17, 01:52 PM	#6
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,703 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	Planes and Helos are a terrible thread indeed. I use the Moss torpedo to fool them, but the game gives me a very hard time to evade torpedos and bombs. It's very well done and the 3D outside look is actually a necessity for emergency navigation, not a cheat as I supposed.

11-07-17, 03:58 PM	#7
Capt Jack Harkness Samurai Navy Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 567 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 1	Do the planes use some magic? Yes. The current MAD implementation makes the sensor much more accurate than they are in real life. In game MAD gives the aircraft an exact location if you’re within its range. In real life it’s a long range metal detector like you see treasure hunters using, all you get is some kind of blip on the screen that says you “may” have just flown over a sub. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11-07-17, 05:25 PM	#8
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	IRL the aircraft drops smoke once it has a MAD detection so it is a very accurate sensor.

11-07-17, 07:47 PM	#9
Barleyman Gunner Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 99 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I hate that TLAM mission. You are right up to the coast in the beginning where it's practically a suicide to start launching cruise missiles.. Especially with 7.5min loading delay so you have to expose yourself three times. That bear will find you every time. Interestingly it only seems to have one or two torpedoes and some depth charges so it is actually possible to get "away" from it but it'll follow you along while you're doing your exfil in those shallow waters. Dropping sonobuoys with pretty point blank accuracy to boot. Alternatively you can spend about an hour in real time to get as far away as possible from the target zone.

11-07-17, 08:15 PM	#11
Barleyman Gunner Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 99 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	In that land attack mission you need to take out the patrol ships first as some of them have ASW missiles.. Of course given TLAM range you shouldn't have to get anywhere that near to the base to start with. Launching missiles is best left for taking out merchants or landing ships you don't want to chase down for ages. When we get the 688i, at least you can put out a pretty respectable first strike with the VLS. 16x TASM would ruin anyone's day.