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Old 03-03-08, 10:25 PM   #1
Webster
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the very idea of having to pay for a mod goes against everything this community is about.

it is my belief that we are about freely sharing ideas and talent so that all of us can have the best and most enjoyable naval simulation game experience possible.

once we begin paying for mods and patches we will start a process of prostitution of all shared content and destroy what this community is about. allow them to charge for one download (even if it only costs $1) and you will have to start buying every mod and talent sharing will be at an end.


EDIT: in order to understand the context in which this thread was originally created, please read below:

you must understand that at the time i posted this thread ubisoft was saying that there was a stand alone patch 1.5 that was built into the new u-boat missions expansion pack and it would be released soon as a stand alone patch but then they started acting like it never existed to begin with.

this thread was to protest about ubisoft not wanting to offer the patch for free download as long as they were making money selling it as part of the u-boat expansion. (thats just smart buisness sense)

my intention is not to imply you shouldnt buy the u-boat expansion but rather i just wanted everyone to hold off on purchasing it in protest just untill ubisoft relented and released the stand alone patch version. (this was a misunderstanding on my part about what UBM was all about)

ubisoft's official stance is that patch 1.5 never actually existed and UBM 1.5 is only an expansion with game enhancements and they have no plans to ever create another stand alone patch because 1.4 was the last patch they will make, so this post has kinda lost its purpose for being.

as time has gone by it has become much missunderstood what my intentions were in making this thread so i added this EDIT to clarify my opinion, which over time has changed somewhat as i learned more about the expansion and what it actually did to the game.

Last edited by Webster; 06-06-08 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-03-08, 11:05 PM   #2
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I really don't aggree with you.
For us it's entertainment, for them it's work.
I guess you don't work for free for your boss either.

Oh, and SH4 UBoat Missions it's not simply a mod... it much more than that - it's patch and an addon. Which has changes to the game that I very doubt any modder could do cause we don't have access to the source code.
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Old 03-03-08, 11:07 PM   #3
CCIP
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How is SH4 1.5 a mod, especially if it introduces notable engine optimizations and hardcode modifications, along with new engine features.

Can a mod do this? I don't think so. Don't underestimate the resources that went into this.

Likewise, "this community" - what do the devs have to do with that?

...oh let's see, how about the fact that there would be no community without their work? Don't confuse. There is mods and then there's commercial development. This is absolutely neccesary for the community to function.
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Old 03-03-08, 11:33 PM   #4
tater
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I'd mod stuff regardless. As far as I'm concerned, they can repackage and sell anything I've published to date. They need to make a living so that we have something to mod in the first place.
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Old 03-03-08, 11:50 PM   #5
Madox58
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100% with you there Tater.
I didn't buy the 1.5 patch.
I bought the U-Boat expansion.
The 1.5 patch just came with it.
I'd poke my eyes out if we don't see a 1.5 aside from the expansion
sooner or later.
From a purely business aspect?
What I see makes perfect sense.
Heck, I'd do the same thing!!
Get a few bucks for the expansion (Patch included)
Once sales go down, release the patch.
Covers costs, increases interest in the expansion,
get better feed back on both.
Your not going anywhere.
You'll still be around for the 1.5 patch release.
And when it's free?
You'll grab it.
I said it before, I'll say it again.
(And NO! I'm not saying you Guys are putting out bad stuff!! )
Ubi should think about the
Field of Dreams thing.
If We build it?
The Modders will come!!
Thanks to all the Dev's!
You gave me a whole 4 months of things to play with.

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Old 03-04-08, 02:11 AM   #6
DS
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Those devs make great sub sims. I'd pay once, I'd pay double, I'd pay double twice over. It's worth it to keep them coming. I do NOT in any way whatsoever or even imaginable feel even the slightist bit cheated by U-Boat Missions.
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Old 03-10-08, 11:58 AM   #7
Webster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateer
100% with you there Tater.
I didn't buy the 1.5 patch.
I bought the U-Boat expansion.
The 1.5 patch just came with it.
I'd poke my eyes out if we don't see a 1.5 aside from the expansion
sooner or later.
From a purely business aspect?
What I see makes perfect sense.
Heck, I'd do the same thing!!
Get a few bucks for the expansion (Patch included)
Once sales go down, release the patch.
Covers costs, increases interest in the expansion,
get better feed back on both.
Your not going anywhere.
You'll still be around for the 1.5 patch release.
And when it's free?
You'll grab it.
well there is the very crux of the matter, if ubi sees that they can make $ selling the patch then they have no incentive to release it for free. quite the opposite in fact, it would not make sense to give it away for free if they (us) are willing to pay for it.

the u-boat expansion is worth paying for and i think should be selling for $20 instead of the $10 they ask for. they deserve to get rewarded for their hard work, but when they dont freely release the 1.5 patch and you can only get it with the expansion, i am afraid it will set a president of charging for patches from now on.

if they release the 1.5 patch for free then i will be very happy to be wrong but i just worry that it gives ubi an incentive to charge us for all future patches.

Last edited by Webster; 03-10-08 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 04-13-08, 09:39 PM   #8
THE_MASK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WEBSTER
please dont patronize those who wish to charge you for a mod patch.

the very idea of having to pay for a mod goes against everything this community is about.

it is my belief that we are about freely sharing ideas and talent so that all of us can have the best and most enjoyable naval simulation game experience possible.

once we begin paying for mods and patches we will start a process of prostitution of all shared content and destroy what this community is about. allow them to charge for one download (even if it only costs $1) and you will have to start buying every mod and talent sharing will be at an end.
The only problem is , the patch part is about 1% and 99% is great new stuff modders could never had done in there wildest dreams . If 1.4 was the last patch , then i am real glad that i have the opertunity for some extra stuff over and beyond the patches . Now that the patches are/probably finished , keep the addons coming .
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Old 05-12-08, 01:27 PM   #9
Webster
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i especially like the way they sell you a u-boat expansion but it contains no missions for you to play, has numerous bugs and glitches, and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content. if the whole purpose was just to add some fantasy german campaign then thats fine but you would hope they could have done that while still making it compatable with 1.4 so other mods would still work. i am all for improving things but if the change will cause more problems than you solve, whats the point?

to be honest i think ubi missed a great chance to repackage sh3 with the great new graffics of sh4 by simply using sh4 environmental graffics files to bring sh3 on par with sh4 visually and calling it sh5 and combining all the improvements done by modders to start with a finished bug free game from the start.

i own sh3 but i would definately buy a new version if it had all the newest graffics and effects along with the bugs ironed out in advance. hell its still not too late, so ubi if your listening, put together a 1.5 for sh3 like i described and you can count on my $$$
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Old 05-12-08, 02:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WEBSTER
i especially like the way they sell you a u-boat expansion but it contains no missions for you to play, has numerous bugs and glitches, and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content. if the whole purpose was just to add some fantasy german campaign then thats fine but you would hope they could have done that while still making it compatable with 1.4 so other mods would still work. i am all for improving things but if the change will cause more problems than you solve, whats the point?
1.5 is the current version of the game and it contains more than just content, as has been explained above.
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Old 05-12-08, 02:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdavis
1.5 is the current version of the game and it contains more than just content, as has been explained above.
i understand the point you wish to make but i wish to point out that according to ubisoft 1.5 is not the current version of the game, according to ubisoft the latest patched version of the sh4 game is 1.4 but you can buy an additional u-boat mission pack that converts the game to 1.5 and will add additional content along with game enhancements.


this is from ubisoft website:

Experience the thrill of the hunt! Prowl the waters as the captain of a German submarine in a never-before-seen theatre of operations – the Indian Ocean. Take part in the war against British supply lines off the coast of North Africa and support the Japanese war against the U.S. Navy.
Developed by Ubisoft Romania, Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific U-Boat Missions is an add-on that extends the gameplay experience by focusing on the historically accurate but largely unknown German U-boat campaign in the Indian Ocean during World War II.

Key Features:
  • German Campaign in the Indian Ocean: The new campaign spans from July 1943 until the end of the war for Germany in May 1945. Operate from such far-off Japanese naval bases as Penang, Singapore, Jakarta and Surabaya.
  • Strategic Warfare: Rise in rank and experience, gaining access to new strategic resources, such as recon aircrafts that track down enemy shipping, and battle groups that can help wipe out superior enemy forces.
  • New Playable Submarines: Take to the seas in new German submarines, including the long-range Type IX-D2 U-boat and the revolutionary Walther propulsion type XVIII U-boat. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of these boats and how you can overcome even elite, late-war allied destroyers with high-speed hit-and-run attacks.
  • Heroes: Based on actual historical figures, these new crew members add a number of special abilities that can change the fate of battles and save the ship when the time is right, as well as adding historical color to the game.
  • Better Accessibility: New and improved features such as intelligence information, navigation maps and upgrade systems ensure that U-Boat Missions will give players the expansion they’ve been waiting for.

Last edited by Webster; 05-12-08 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 05-12-08, 02:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WEBSTER
and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content.
Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.
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Old 05-12-08, 03:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdavis
Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.
That's because many people don't understand that we don't make a living from creating these programs/mods, they do. It's their job. The company has to charge for a product so these workers can get paid. What if McDonalds or Burger King decided to give away free food? They wouldn't make any money and many of these fricking kids wouldn't get paid. Heck, with all the complaining about the U-Boat Expansion, I should complain that the happy meal is too expensive and that the bloodsucking workers should take a pay cut so I don't have to pay so much for something I feel should be free.
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Old 05-12-08, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaptrap
I should complain that the happy meal is too expensive and that the bloodsucking workers should take a pay cut so I don't have to pay so much for something I feel should be free.
No compliants here. Broke down this past Sunday, yesterday, got version 1.5 @ $9.95.

BEST ten bucks I ever spent in the last year - It's real nice. I have ZERO interest in the U-Boat stuff - NONE - the rest of it is GREAT! Have loved what $10 got me for hundreds of hours of future enjoyment.

So if you want it for free, dream-on living in the past.

It's a high quality upgrade and DIRT cheap.
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Old 05-12-08, 05:27 PM   #15
Webster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdavis
Quote:
Originally Posted by WEBSTER
and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content.
Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.
close but not quite,

first, the mods - what is happening is that most mods are now being made for 1.5 because it changes the game so much that most mods will not work for both 1.4 or 1.5 but instead must be created in a seperate version to work in one or the other. this will result in us being "forced" to buy 1.5 to use the new mods and the community will see a drastic reduction in any mods available for 1.4.

next point - "If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue." - i agree with this.

last point - i stated in an earlier post that the misunderstanding about the "patch" vs an expansion only, was cleared up and that my main "gripe" was the misrepresentation by ubi that there was a 1.5 "patch" and that it would be released soon after the ubm came out, it never happened and IMO it never will because it takes too much work.
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