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07-24-07, 09:19 AM | #1 |
Ace of the Deep
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GWX Map Update Cheat?
What was the reasoning behind allowing map updates to be turned ON in GWX and not taking the hit on the realism percentage? :hmm:
I would suggest changing that back on a future release so that when people say they're playing at 100% I'll know they're playing at 100%. |
07-24-07, 09:40 AM | #2 |
Navy Seal
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IIRC having 'No Map Updates' turned on was such a huge increase in realism (manual plotting, target plotting etc), it was probably deemed to be to much to expect people to adopt just to play at 100% and recieve the added bonus & gameplay changes that comes with 100%.
Personally, I think it's fine as is. I also doubt it will be changed. I also, don't consider it a cheat!
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07-24-07, 09:45 AM | #3 |
Ocean Warrior
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I hear your pain, brother, but this is clearly an old minefield where the warning signs have long since fallen down.
I'll save Kpt Lehmann the trouble of repeating to you what he said to me when i raised the subject a few weeks ago Kpt Lehmann "Once again, because map contacts are such a controversial issue, we have removed any "realism" penalty associated with one decision or another. Valid arguments: 1) The captain would be updated on a regular basis and/or on request by his crew as to the location and bearing of contacts... or the U-boat itself. 2) In GW/GWX, all contacts are grey in color requiring the user to identify the contact before decision is made to fire or not fire. Optics have also had their outermost zoom increased to help alleviate the loss of visual resolution of in-game graphics vs real life visual acuity. 3) The captain, although he should be able to do any job on the sub... cannot do them all simultaneously." read a bit more at http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117781 Personally, i think the "map updates on = more realistic" crew are kidding themselves and suspect they may have honed their formidable argumentation skills in the ID debate, but there you go.
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07-24-07, 09:47 AM | #4 |
Navy Seal
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Well, of course, that's exactly what I should have said.:rotfl:
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07-24-07, 10:38 AM | #5 |
Ace of the Deep
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I'm sure it's been beaten to death then...
I've never viewed Silent Hunter as a simulation of only the captain's perspective. Cap'n didn't fire the deck gun, or man the AA either... I think true 100% should only apply to those that are willing to also take up the roll of nav/track officer. We pat ourselves on the back for learning manual targetting but when it comes to determining true course we're content to allow ourselves some room to be lazy I guess. So how do we refer to real 100% players then? Is it generally understood that when someone says they play at 100% realism setting that they also have the map updates off? ...if they had modelled some variability into the hydro contact line I wouldn't call it a cheat. However, as long as the contact line continues to terminate at the exact location of the contact, I'd definitely call it a cheat. That information is just too perfect. If the contact line could be modded to terminate at a fixed distance or a max range for hydro listening, I think that would be acceptable. :hmm: |
07-24-07, 02:11 PM | #6 | |
Black Magic
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07-24-07, 02:22 PM | #7 | ||
Ace of the Deep
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Really! I'd love to see a mod for that incorporated into GWX. What's your fix? |
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07-24-07, 02:27 PM | #8 | |||
Black Magic
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07-24-07, 03:34 PM | #9 |
Ace of the Deep
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What's the best way to get that tga?
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07-24-07, 03:55 PM | #10 |
Commander
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I think he may be referring to the assisted plotting mod which I find to be a happy medium between map updates and no map updates.
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07-24-07, 06:20 PM | #11 |
GWX Project Director
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We have an alternative solution in the works concerning the refinement of contact-handling in GWX. Some contact-related situational awareness is appropriate... too much is not appropriate. Who decides?
Regarding "realism" yes, I think many people are kidding themselves... but I also think that some are poseurs. These are the guys that really stick in my craw. 250,000 ton single patrols by individuals claiming "100%" impress me not. Editing the realism values in their respective location is an easy thing to do. (Heck, I could make nuclear torpedoes if I wanted... and remain at "100% realism.") LOL, some give their deck guns 20,000 rounds with a reload time of ZERO... and claim to be playing on "hard" settings... well that defeats the purpose. I think that poseurs also take adantage of known exploits etc. to further their careers... all the while SWEARING and PROCLAIMING that they are gaming at "100% REALISM!" Some, make no bones about it... that they like to uber their stuff... and no worries... They are not hiding anything... Mush Martin is not a "poseur." Diferrent people enjoy different things... and my attitude is, "Well that's cool. Who are we to dictate to anyone how they play their game." HOWEVER, I also think that taking an elitist view on what exactly constitutes "hardcore" play and belittling others for more releaxed play is wrong... and it occurs here all the time. Encouragement to push players out of their comfort zone would work much better I think. GWX... by design encourages this... and will continue to do so. Regarding how we present any given element in GWX... no matter what we do people will bitch about it. The research is there in BUCKETLOADS concerning many matters... especially campaign elements... and this is obvious when you read the manual. A further variable that I think players rarely think about... As cool as SH3 is... in modding circles, fixing one thing often causes you to break another... and so you begin your rappel with a shoestring when you need a rope. Who decides which modification is adopted? Long repair times are a prime example of this phenomenon. One thing about GWX... is that it is pretty easy for a player to enjoy at EITHER end of the "realism" spectrum. The "realism percentage" is an easily debateable AND modifiable item... it is IMHO a pointless measurement. GWX is easily "hardcore" or "arcadish" dependant on YOUR CHOICES. We have heard it all... "GWX is too hard!" "GWX is just eyecandy!" "My porridge is cold!" "My hamster is running backwards!" At the end of the day, it is individual convictions that will determine gameplay styles and options. I am a "hardcore" kaleun at heart... but I get quite angry when I see that sort of attitude imposed on others in such a way that "the other guys can't join our little club because they aren't as tough/good as we are." PLEH! Today's swabbies... are tomorrow's admirals. They'll get tired of all the gratuitous tonnage and pretty explosions... and either get bored and leave... or get better/tougher. Forgetting that will kill the longevity of the thing we all love. Alienating them is a mistake. Now if we could just hunt down all the "poseurs"... |
07-24-07, 06:39 PM | #12 |
Ace of the Deep
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OK, whatever...
I just wanted to know why you chose to mod it like that? Creates confusion and a class of folks (that apparently annoy you) who are poseurs. I just wanna easily understand what people mean when they say they play at xx%. If it's so controversial (although I don't really understand why) it should just be left alone... |
07-24-07, 06:46 PM | #13 | |
Ace of the Deep
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Your efforts are appreciated. |
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07-24-07, 06:51 PM | #14 | |
GWX Project Director
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07-24-07, 07:04 PM | #15 | |
Ace of the Deep
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Actually I didn't really care for your scolding tone or implication that I have some elitest viewpoint, or that I'm belittling anyone. I have no interest in projecting a poor attitude within the community... I thought it was a reasonable question to ask in a thread. But I see it's a topic thats been beaten in the past and apparently there's some sting involved that I wasn't really aware of. Not sure what you're reading into my posts. I s'pose message tone can be manipulated in the mind of the reader. |
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