Anyone have the text to the poem in the opening movie?

[joea]

Oh leave this already mbthegreat, you got the numbers wrong, sometimes both sides are not the same and poems are sometimes just poems.

[mbthegreat]

How are my numbers wrong?

The sides are not the same (world War Two is probably the most clear cut conflict ever) but the people fighting are just the same.

[yankee-V]

Initially I did not even bother with the intro video, skipped it completely everytime the game started. Listened and watched once or twice and pondered the words. It is quite out of keeping with most multimedia fluff in computer games, action oriented simulations and the like. But more and more it has grown on me.

Like others have said, I don't think that the intro is making a political statement, as much a philosophical statement about life, death and time. Which is not a bad thing to think on. Also, there's not much Milton out there in popular culture. Sort of an interesting choice.

http://www.acmewebpages.com/midi/milton.wav

[Manbot_amo]

After long study of the poem I have come up with my own interpretation of the poem, hear me out:
Remember that the poet is talking to time itself, he starts of addressing time by saying “Fly envious time til thy run out thy race” the race may be the human race or the race which time is running, either way it shows the end of the world. He then continues to describe time as “lazy leaden-stepping hours” he also explains tat by ending the “race” man will lose little as time gains little. “So little is our loss,So little is thy gain”
He also explain that every thing mortal is "dross" or impure and in need of removal. (do remember tat the poet is a strong catholic, thus he is saying that humans and their creadtions are "dross")

He then says that as the end of the world, as time entombs all bad things and the greed of man is consumed “For when as each thing bad thou hast entombed
And last of all, thy greedy self consumed,” only happiness shall remain as we remain in heaven. For love and peace will be greatly greeted by man “Then long Enternity shall greet our bliss” (bliss meaning happiness) as joy overtakes us like a flood.

And as we stay in heaven, “About the supreme throne” and sit and wear stars “Attired with stars, we shall forever sit” (offcourse referring to heaven) we stand triumphant over death, chance and time itself!

In my opinion this poem is talking about our end, may it be natural or man made. However it does give a small hint tat it might be man made, as it refers to "greed self cosume" thus greed consuming us all. for when we are in Enternity, time itself is beaten and no longer needed, this is why time i described as "envious", for he envies the time we will no longer need him (remember in the poem time is personified, by giving it human characteristics.)

thus this can explain the adding of the poem in SH4.

Let me know

[Marinesko]

Originally Posted by mbthegreat

I think it is trying to make you think about what war is about and what you are doing when you sink another ship, because the people fighting on each side are morally equal, and everybody you kill is exactly the same as you. I believe it says in the Qu'ran the killing one person is equal to killing the entire human race, and I think that is really applicable here.

I think Snowman said something about Europeans and Americans thinking about war differently, and I think that is true, Europeans seem to have much more of a generational memory of the full horrors of war, the level of destruction, the level of death. Compare American civilain deaths (~11,000) with places like Poland (~2,000,000) or the USSR (~10,000,000). The only thing that really comes close in levels of brutality is the American Civil War, and even that is now where near the scale of the war in Europe.

For the record I like the intro, though I've never been the literary type.

As for the numbers, the Soviet Union figure for civilian deaths could be correct(the total number of deaths is still undetermined), but in the case of Poland there were roughly 2-3 million total, including military- then almost the entire Polish Jewry, which was something like 3 million; as a result, some sources, such as Soviet, counted Poland's loss at 6 million people.

And yes, the Quran does say that:

“Who so slays a soul, not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land should be as if he has slain mankind altogether. And whosoever saves a life, it is as though he has saved the lives of all mankind.” (5 :32)

That being said, I wouldn't venture to say that all soldiers of WWII were morally equivalent.


But back to the topic, I like the intro, I just wish I knew what the camera technique is called(it looks like a simulation of time lapse(???) footage).

[Marinesko]

I also have some questions about the best way to get AOB(right now I draw on the map with the protractor) and particularly speed estimation. When I miss, it usually seems to be a problem of speed estimation. I have heard of something called the "3 minute rule"(reminds me of the Pick-up artist's 3 second rule), but I have seen no explanation. I have also seen something about plotting the course on a map to measure the speed, which can then also be used for AOB. How does one do this exactly?

[TwinStackPete379]

John Milton
Born9 December 1608(1608-12-09)
Bread Street, Cheapside, London, EnglandDied8 November 1674 (aged 65)
Bunhill, London, EnglandOccupationPoet, prose polemicist, civil servantNotable work(s)Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained, Samson Agonistes, Areopagitica
I now have a new favorite poem. Not simply because I get great enjoyment from this game, but, because, for me, it's a vivid reminder of the importance of spirituality(whatever one chooses, but in this case Christianity). I never fail to watch the intro when i first load up the game. I was unfamiliar with this piece of poetry, even with having had studied Milton in the past.
The point of the poem is this: the material world is meaningless, so it matters not that Time may inevitably devour all "Which is no more then what is false and vain, and merely mortal dross". According to Milton, we, ultimately have the upper hand because we have the ability to rise to everlasting timeless eternity "With Truth, and Peace, and Love shall ever shine About the supreme Throne Of him".
I find it provoking that the devs would choose this piece of poetry to open the game. The fact that it is read to an intro of war scenes, for me, only reinforces the message of the poem. After all, wars, at their lowest denominator, are always fought over the material.
As far as the "individual kiss" juxtaposed against an exploding torpedo, I think it's a very good interpretation of the "kiss" of death. Every individual receives this kiss, in that particular case an explosive one. The kiss may also come as quietly passing in ur sleep. One never knows, or, gets to choose (suicide aside).
In the end, the poem caught my attention as an unusual intro for a game. By the second time i heard it, i thought it was E.A. Poe (the cadence and use of words sounded like "The Raven" to me, but i was 225 years off). Personnaly i think Milton accomplished more with this poem than with paradise lost. This piece is succinct, pleasant and powerful.

This is a very old thread, but.... I suspect the one of the reasons the Milton poem was chosen is that the programmers are European and have no knowledge of Walt Whitman. I think Whitman wrote a much more appropriate poem:

Song for All Seas, All Ships

1

To-day a rude brief recitative,
Of ships sailing the Seas, each with its special flag or ship-signal;
Of unnamed heroes in the ships—Of waves spreading and spreading, far as the eye can reach;
Of dashing spray, and the winds piping and blowing;
And out of these a chant, for the sailors of all nations,
Fitful, like a surge.

Of Sea-Captains young or old, and the Mates—and of all intrepid Sailors;
Of the few, very choice, taciturn, whom fate can never surprise, nor death dismay,
Pick’d sparingly, without noise, by thee, old Ocean—chosen by thee,
Thou Sea, that pickest and cullest the race, in Time, and unitest Nations!
Suckled by thee, old husky Nurse—embodying thee!
Indomitable, untamed as thee.

(Ever the heroes, on water or on land, by ones or twos appearing,
Ever the stock preserv’d, and never lost, though rare—enough for seed preserv’d.)

2

Flaunt out O Sea, your separate flags of nations!
Flaunt out, visible as ever, the various ship-signals!
But do you reserve especially for yourself, and for the soul of man, one flag above all the rest,
A spiritual woven Signal, for all nations, emblem of man elate above death,
Token of all brave captains, and all intrepid sailors and mates,
And all that went down doing their duty;
Reminiscent of them’twined from all intrepid captains, young or old;
A pennant universal, subtly waving, all time, o’er all brave sailors,
All seas, all ships.

[ssjtoma]

awesome!! I was wondering who was its author!!