A price for the SDK of sh3

[makman94]

Originally Posted by ValoWay

This thread had 297 views so far. I think everyone who would want to support a crowdfunding effort with his money should post a simple '+1' or 'I agree' so that it can become apparent to everyone how great the interest of subsim's community is to get access to the source code from Ubisoft.

Cause, we might wanna send an actual formal letter to Ubisoft and in that letter we should, besides stating why we want access, also name everyone who supports the plea to underline our interest and seriousness. That is much better and effective as when one random guy sends a badly written e-mail in broken English.

If people on subsim prove their interest and support in the idea I believe that is up to willing native English speakers to start formulating a letter to Ubi.

Furthermore, I believe that the entire effort would gain weight drastically if it was officially under the umbrella of subsim.com.

Like I said earlier, however, it is first of all beneficial to find out if the whole attempt of us trying to get ubi's approval was reasonable or not.

That is all I can say and reason about the matter

Originally Posted by ValoWay

This is an excellent idea!

Since it was Makman94's original idea I, however, won't do anything for now! He owns the right to decide if he wants to retroactively edit a poll into this thread (if possible?) or if he wants to create an entire new thread + poll maybe even in 'Silent Hunter III' general discussion instead of the 'Workshop' subsection?

Besides, Mak is also a well known and respected modder and I imagine that he asking the people is more effective to the cause than when 'fans' like me post a question to the community

hello ValoWay,

the point of my message is exactly to find out how much money Ubi would like for the SDK.

There was a pole (or vote) long time ago here in subsim with people voting-asking for the SDK but this went nowhere.they were asking the SDK for free and they believed that if there were many voters ...the ubi would satisfy their request.

this,here, is completely different. i am suggesting to ask for a price and buy it. there is no need for votes or things like that.Ubi is giving a price and ,if the money are collected, we get the SDK.

i totally agree with you that must be an 'official' request for the price (i wrote it at my OP) for MANY reasons and then we (the community) will discuss our options if ubi makes a good offer. (becuase ,there is always the possibility,Ubi giving an 'astronomic' price and game is overing there).

I am not claiming any 'rights' for such ideas,i am just suggesting. you can make any poll or thread you like but ,personally, i don't believe that this would have any effect for getting a better price from Ubi

[Wise]

At first it is necessary to ask Ubisoft. And if he agrees to sell, then it is necessary to organize a collecting money. Organization of vote, this superfluous. Though, We still in SH3. Why? Because, Ubisoft has sold us the defective SH5. And after that, we have to pay him? I consider, we shouldn't pay.. Ubisoft shall give free of charge. As compensation for moral damage for grandiose deception. And besides, to indemnify financial damage to each virtual submariner. But, of course, it is unreal. I just laugh. Ok, I am ready to leave some amount money. But I consider before to realize this plan, it is necessary to have warranties of our geniuses (modders-programmers). Confidence is that they want and will be engaged in improvement of a game with new opportunities.

[Jeff-Groves]

Part of the basic source code from SH3/4 IS in SH5.
4 and 5 were built from 3.

SH3 actually had Dynamic Shadows in the 1st release.
There were issues with it so it was cut out of SH3 in the 1st patch.
What was not cut out was a ton of 3d models used by that!
So you have crap overhead that is never used by the Game.
People STILL to this day add that crap when they do a new unit!!


Ubi selling the source code?
I highly, HIGHLY doubt they would do that.
They do know that there are some people around that are perfectly able to take that code and create a version that they would NEVER be able to compete with in the free market. If they sold the source code? they would have to start all over to avoid legal issues if they ever decided to do another Sub Sim Game.

My first expectation is that Ubi will just ignore any requests for a price.
The second would be they would just flat out tell you no.

[J0313]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Part of the basic source code from SH3/4 IS in SH5.
4 and 5 were built from 3.

SH3 actually had Dynamic Shadows in the 1st release.
There were issues with it so it was cut out of SH3 in the 1st patch.
What was not cut out was a ton of 3d models used by that!
So you have crap overhead that is never used by the Game.
People STILL to this day add that crap when they do a new unit!!


Ubi selling the source code?
I highly, HIGHLY doubt they would do that.
They do know that there are some people around that are perfectly able to take that code and create a version that they would NEVER be able to compete with in the free market. If they sold the source code? they would have to start all over to avoid legal issues if they ever decided to do another Sub Sim Game.

My first expectation is that Ubi will just ignore any requests for a price.
The second would be they would just flat out tell you no.

Why would they sell the exporter for SH5 and not for SH3 when SH5 is the newer of the two? That doesn't make sense to me. But hey, maybe I'm just dense.

[Jeff-Groves]

Ubi is not selling the exporter for SH5!
RAD Games is selling it. They own the Exporter. Not Ubi!
So they can sell the exact same version to anyone they wish!

I suggest reading the SH5 threads before anyone assumes things.
SH5 is not SH3/4. Get over it.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

......

Ubi selling the source code?
I highly, HIGHLY doubt they would do that.
They do know that there are some people around that are perfectly able to take that code and create a version that they would NEVER be able to compete with in the free market. If they sold the source code? they would have to start all over to avoid legal issues if they ever decided to do another Sub Sim Game.

My first expectation is that Ubi will just ignore any requests for a price.
The second would be they would just flat out tell you no.

as i said in my OP,

i have read somewhere here that ubi has give a price for the SDK of sh5 at 12000 usd (but i don't know if this is true. i searched for that post but i can't find it in order to point you there).
So, i am thinking,if the above is true, that the price for the full SDK of sh3 should,logically, be at a lower level

We have nothing to lose by just asking for a price and let them say whatever they want (for whatever reason)

[J0313]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Ubi is not selling the exporter for SH5!
RAD Games is selling it. They own the Exporter. Not Ubi!
So they can sell the exact same version to anyone they wish!

I suggest reading the SH5 threads before anyone assumes things.
SH5 is not SH3/4. Get over it.

Hey bro it was just a question. Your the one who needs to calm down and get over it.

[Tycho]

Originally Posted by makman94

as i said in my OP,

i have read somewhere here that ubi has give a price for the SDK of sh5 at 12000 usd

No bad to dream, but I see that you misunderstood something. Ubi did not sell anything.
RAD Games sell one tool (exporter, only the exporter, not SDK), that Ubi used for SH5. They first asked 12000, now they ask 8000.
Jeff-Groves is trying to collect this amount. For six months, the collected money are 2200 from 30 people...
Make your conclusion, how you will collect money for a whole SDK.

[olddriedseaweed]

Originally Posted by makman94

as i said in my OP,

i have read somewhere here that ubi has give a price for the SDK of sh5 at 12000 usd (but i don't know if this is true. i searched for that post but i can't find it in order to point you there).
So, i am thinking,if the above is true, that the price for the full SDK of sh3 should,logically, be at a lower level

We have nothing to lose by just asking for a price and let them say whatever they want (for whatever reason)

AND - I'm in

[Niume]

Originally Posted by olddriedseaweed

AND - I'm in

Count me in too

[Niume]

If we are talking about Donating to Sh3\SH5 check here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=226836

[makman94]

i don't know why most people here keep mixing up this thread with Jeff's thread.
this thing here is totally different with what Jeff's thread is running after.

@Tycho: i am aware of Jeff's thread and i know exactly what is all about there. Maybe is my bad english but i meant exactly what i wrote at my OP and this has nothing to do with rad tools or anything else.I wrote that i read somewhere that the price for the SDK of sh5 was at 12000 usd and not the rad tools...etc. Also, said that i don't know if this is true so lets find it out from ubi.
you are mentioning that people are not giving money for the rad tool so your conclusion is that they will not give money for the sdk too. these two are completely different and can't be compared.there is only one way to find out if people will support such an effort but first we need to know the price that is needed for the sh3's sdk.

i don't understand exactly your point by this ''Make your conclusion, how you will collect money for a whole SDK''.why are you making it looks as a personal campaign ?it will not be my job but all of us and if it ever starts it will mean that the price ubi said was a logical one.

i think that it is not a dream but the most practical and logical to ask for the price and then to see our next move.where is the dream to this ? what is your proposal , not even ask for the price ?

[Julhelm]

Why pay 12000 for an SDK to a 12 year old game when you can get Unity or UDK for free and create your own game free of restrictions?

[gap]

I dont like looking like I have a defeatist attitude, but I must admit that I fully agree with Jeff:

- no SDK is absolutely required for editing SHIII. Some of the tools needed were given to us by the devs, others were created ad hoc by estimated members of this community, and they are mostly of public domain. Those editors cover the majority of the game files. The remaining files can be edited for the biggest part with a simple text or hex editor.

- in the right hands, an hex editor is a powerful tool, but one needs to know what bits need to be changed for a certain purpose. As far as I can understand with my limited knowledge of programming, no SDK can replace manual coding, and editing a bunch of compiled code bit by bit can take a lot of time even to the most skilled programmer (not considering the time required for understanding that code). Fine programmers as Stiebler and Co. have done miracles with SHIII. The same goes with The Dark Wraith and SH5, but even so they have only managed discovering a few pieces of the puzzle, and at the cost of many hours of debugging. What is really needed for a larger group of modders-programmers to tweak some major features of the game in a more time-efficent way, or even for adding new features, is Ubisoft undisclosing game's source code. Them doing so is extremely unlikely though, and SHIII being a more than 10 years old game doesn't make things easier, because SHIV and SH5's codes are heavily based on it. They would rather sell the Silent Hunter franchise as a whole to another publisher/developper, who can pay for it expeting to get their money back.
No matter how motivated or generous we are, we will never get there...

[Tycho]

Originally Posted by makman94

i don't know why most people here keep mixing up this thread with Jeff's thread.
this thing here is totally different with what Jeff's thread is running after.

I think it is the same. Just old discussions in "SH5 Mods Workshop" from 2010-2011.
Search for "GR2 files" "Granny" and they often call it "Granny SDK".
So, the fact is, Ubi do not came yet to the idea to give or even sale something to the community. I have not heard so far, that they do such things.

Originally Posted by makman94

i don't understand exactly your point by this ''Make your conclusion, how you will collect money for a whole SDK''.why are you making it looks as a personal campaign ?it will not be my job but all of us and if it ever starts it will mean that the price ubi said was a logical one.

Sorry! Just my english is worse.
By "you", I mean not you personally, "but all of us".