NYGM Tonnage War Mod (current v2.6) 8/11/07 - Page 4

Stiebler · 09-10-06, 03:35 AM

To Pampanito:

The primary reason RUb (last version 1.45) fell by the wayside was because its principal architect, Beery, decided that a) there didn't seem to be any worthwhile new mods to incorporate at that time; b) he was personally more interested in using film-making software.

However, RUb forms the basis of both NYGM and Grey Wolves (maybe of other mods too), with both sides adding subsequent new ideas to it.

This issue of two separate groups (NYGM/GW), and their mutual incompatability, keeps cropping up, and might as well be addressed again here.

It is impossible to reconcile all ideas and/or opinions about what to incorporate into just one mod, so as to please everyone.

To cite my usual example: Rubini's Harbour Traffic mod. It has been obvious from many posts over many months that a lot of people love it, and wouldn't want to be without it. Equally, it is obvious that many other players hate its effect on frame rates when in harbour. How can these diametrically opposite views be reconciled? NYGM tries to cater for both groups by adding Rubini's HT as an optional overlay (even so, traffic in U-boat bases has been reduced). But this means that all changes in the basic campaign_SCR.mis file have to be copied over into the HT file too. This is very tedious, and potentially liable to cause errors. It also increases the time for mod-checking before release.

One can think of many other examples of mods with strong views for and against their inclusion. To provide options for each and every one of these mods would create a massive, time-consuming and error-prone burden on the underlying super-mod. Until all SH3 users decide that they all want the same mod components, there are always bound to be several giant mods. The surprising thing, in retrospect, is that RUb was uncontested for so long, although even this evolved into sub-groups like IUb.

Competition also tends to stimulate new ideas, to everyone's benefit.

Stiebler.

LaikaFatBum · 09-18-06, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

Competition also tends to stimulate new ideas, to everyone's benefit.

Stiebler.

Respectfully not agree. Bothe teams not working together means bothe doing same thing. same thing done twice no one benifits because less is done by bothe.

Immacolata · 09-18-06, 02:43 AM

Well respectfully disagree. Who says its bad two teams work on the same aspects? You get various interpretations. I've tried both mods, and they are NOT the same. Choice is good. And what if they don't like each other? Not a lot of good corporation comes from that.

Zinmar · 10-01-06, 12:39 AM

Is there a way to get a version of NYGM 2.2 without all the crew changes? I don't want to move the crew around, I know it isn't realisitic but neither is my being in a german submarine. I really enjoy what NYGM has done to all the other aspects of the game but I don't want to do crew management. SH3 Commandeer let me set it up so that fatigue was no longer a factor, and now 2.2 makes it impossible to play with fatigue disabled unless you don't use SH3 Cdr. Could you put out a version that doesn't have that in it or inform us how to disable that feature? I love everything else you have done and will use the program that you have made if fatigue can be avoided.

Der Teddy Bar · 10-01-06, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinmar

Is there a way to get a version of NYGM 2.2 without all the crew changes? I don't want to move the crew around, I know it isn't realisitic but neither is my being in a german submarine. I really enjoy what NYGM has done to all the other aspects of the game but I don't want to do crew management. SH3 Commandeer let me set it up so that fatigue was no longer a factor, and now 2.2 makes it impossible to play with fatigue disabled unless you don't use SH3 Cdr. Could you put out a version that doesn't have that in it or inform us how to disable that feature? I love everything else you have done and will use the program that you have made if fatigue can be avoided.

If you set 3DRender= to say 32 i.e. 3DRender=32; in the file main.cfg under My Documents\SH3\data\cfg then at 64x and higher the crew do not incur fatigue.

This effectively turns off the NYGM Fatigue.

Zinmar · 10-01-06, 10:35 AM

Awesome!! Thanks much!!

Steeltrap · 10-02-06, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinmar

Is there a way to get a version of NYGM 2.2 without all the crew changes? I don't want to move the crew around, I know it isn't realisitic but neither is my being in a german submarine. I really enjoy what NYGM has done to all the other aspects of the game but I don't want to do crew management. SH3 Commandeer let me set it up so that fatigue was no longer a factor, and now 2.2 makes it impossible to play with fatigue disabled unless you don't use SH3 Cdr. Could you put out a version that doesn't have that in it or inform us how to disable that feature? I love everything else you have done and will use the program that you have made if fatigue can be avoided.

If you set 3DRender= to say 32 i.e. 3DRender=32; in the file main.cfg under My Documents\SH3\data\cfg then at 64x and higher the crew do not incur fatigue.

This effectively turns off the NYGM Fatigue.

Teddy, as a matter of interest which do you prefer? I've found I need to rotate the crew in the watch and engine spaces every 4 hours to prevent excessive fatigue. This is realistic but a pain in the glutius maximus! I know there can't be a 'roster' system developed due to code constraints - which would have made the best mix of realism and playability - so I'm curious as to which YOU prefer.

Incidentally, I max my TC at 256x as I gather, from reading the documentation (which, by the way, is excellent), that higher levels can do odd things to air attacks (is that right, or am I slowing things needlessly?).

Appreciate your feedback. BTW, NYGM 2.2 is brilliant!

Cheers

Der Teddy Bar · 10-02-06, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

Teddy, as a matter of interest which do you prefer? I've found I need to rotate the crew in the watch and engine spaces every 4 hours to prevent excessive fatigue. This is realistic but a pain in the glutius maximus! I know there can't be a 'roster' system developed due to code constraints - which would have made the best mix of realism and playability - so I'm curious as to which YOU prefer.

Incidentally, I max my TC at 256x as I gather, from reading the documentation (which, by the way, is excellent), that higher levels can do odd things to air attacks (is that right, or am I slowing things needlessly?).

Appreciate your feedback. BTW, NYGM 2.2 is brilliant!

Cheers

Steeltrap,
I use an 12+ hour shift rotation and have no real issues unless I get a very long stint of 10+ mps winds so I am surprised to hear about your 'forced' 4 hour roster and I feel that you may not be using the NYGM Crew Management modlet of TW 2.2.

This can happen via Sh3 Cmdr.

If using SH3 Cmdr roll back the app and then copy the NYGM TW 2.2 basic.cfg file back.

My maximum compression is set to 128x so that I get the best experience with regards to aircraft encounters. At 128x you are more likely to encounter them.

While I do not like having to change the men I do like what it brings to the game and that I do not have a BORG machine.

I need to consider potential engagements and as such I might need to 'rest' the crew once in a while. Something that would happen in real life with the daily trim dives.

Thanks for the feedback and welcome aboard!

Steeltrap · 10-03-06, 07:19 PM

"I feel that you may not be using the NYGM Crew Management modlet of TW 2.2.

This can happen via Sh3 Cmdr.

If using SH3 Cmdr roll back the app and then copy the NYGM TW 2.2 basic.cfg file back."

Hmmm....OK, so 'rollback' SH3 Cmds then copy the basic.cfg file from the 2.2 stand alone into the basic.cfg in Cmdr, or where?

Definitely sounds like I don't have the crew management working per intention. NO way I could do 12hrs at present unless I'm happy to have efficiency in the toilet by the end of it....

BTW, thanks for your reply. This mod is outstanding, as is the level of support and tips constantly available.

kylania · 10-03-06, 09:17 PM

You should only have to copy the files from NYGM Tonnage War V2.2 – Stand Alone Version\Documentation\SH3 Commander Optional Updates to C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander\Cfg once.

Then in SH3 Commander leave SH3 Options / Gameply Settings / Use Fatigue Model unchecked.

Steeltrap · 10-03-06, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylania

You should only have to copy the files from NYGM Tonnage War V2.2 – Stand Alone Version\Documentation\SH3 Commander Optional Updates to C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander\Cfg once.

Then in SH3 Commander leave SH3 Options / Gameply Settings / Use Fatigue Model unchecked.

Thanks....believe that is what I did.

Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations.

How far should I expect efficiency to drop over 12hrs in standard to 5m/s winds?

What about for winds over that?

Anyway, if I rollback Cmdr and then drop the files again, will that cause any issues if I'm not changing anything else (i.e. not re-installing the mod)?

kylania · 10-03-06, 11:58 PM

Nope, rollback and recopying the files won't hurt anything.

Ummm.. 12 hours straight in fine weather in NYGM will still result in your crew being nearly exhausted I believe.

I've read in a few places that it's ok, no problem because an exhausted crew works just as hard as a fresh crew. So I tried that the other night.. i finally got the message "not enough people in the engine room" and my ship stopped. So obviously that's incorrect.

I've tried setting the 3D view down and using the "trick" of high TC to keep your crew static till battle. While it works for a while, eventually you'll end up with two sets of mostly exhausted crews and it's a nightmare trying to rest some while the other work, but not too hard and blah blah. It's almost easier (buy far too many clickdrags) to just use the 8 hour shifts.

8 hour shift rotations means a painful amount of clicking and dragging, but you've always got a rested crew on duty and a partially rested crew in reserve in case things go wrong.

I set up two crews for each compartment, then three watch crews. At 0800, 1600 and 0000 I swap in one of the three watch crews and rotate everyone else. Just wish there was an easier way of doing that.

Steeltrap · 10-04-06, 12:05 AM

You've pretty much summed up my experience to date/view.

Trouble with 'disabling' fatigue is it ALSO disables recovery from fatigue (unless I'm mistaken). That means you get stuck once you've done some 'real time' playing as you can't recover the fatigue without the other 'half' getting it etc....

Might just disable it entirely. While it's unrealistic, I find mucking around with the crew the whole time a real pain in the arse....in fact it's the one thing I do more than anything else in the sim, and that's clearly NOT right.

raymond6751 · 10-07-06, 05:54 AM

Enough sniping from GW in this thread. Go and browse your own GW stuff and stop filling this thread with nit picking comments that do nobody any service.

I have and use both mods and love them both. Each is marvelous by itself and this cheap shot kind of stuff is unworthy of you.

Personally, I value all information about either mod and would prefer to spend time reading valuable information than a 'war in words' between two modder groups.

It is natural to research the 'other one' but childish to try and belittle their efforts. It isn't necessary guys.

Immacolata · 10-07-06, 07:58 AM

Some kids never learn, ray.

Anyways, I must chime in on the fatigue thing. It works okay when you keep your TC low, but as soon as you impatiently scoot across the ocean you get RSI from moving crew about. If you cruise about at 64/128 it isnt felt so badly.

The most elegant solution would be to either lessen or entirely remove the exhaustion/fatiguges efficiency modifier. Let it be up to morale really.

10-01-06, 12:39 AM	#49
Zinmar Commander Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 304 Downloads: 276 Uploads: 0	Is there a way to get a version of NYGM 2.2 without all the crew changes? I don't want to move the crew around, I know it isn't realisitic but neither is my being in a german submarine. I really enjoy what NYGM has done to all the other aspects of the game but I don't want to do crew management. SH3 Commandeer let me set it up so that fatigue was no longer a factor, and now 2.2 makes it impossible to play with fatigue disabled unless you don't use SH3 Cdr. Could you put out a version that doesn't have that in it or inform us how to disable that feature? I love everything else you have done and will use the program that you have made if fatigue can be avoided. Last edited by Zinmar; 10-01-06 at 12:42 AM.

10-03-06, 09:17 PM	#55
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 117 Uploads: 0	You should only have to copy the files from NYGM Tonnage War V2.2 – Stand Alone Version\Documentation\SH3 Commander Optional Updates to C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander\Cfg once. Then in SH3 Commander leave SH3 Options / Gameply Settings / Use Fatigue Model unchecked. __________________

10-03-06, 11:58 PM	#57
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 117 Uploads: 0	Nope, rollback and recopying the files won't hurt anything. Ummm.. 12 hours straight in fine weather in NYGM will still result in your crew being nearly exhausted I believe. I've read in a few places that it's ok, no problem because an exhausted crew works just as hard as a fresh crew. So I tried that the other night.. i finally got the message "not enough people in the engine room" and my ship stopped. So obviously that's incorrect. I've tried setting the 3D view down and using the "trick" of high TC to keep your crew static till battle. While it works for a while, eventually you'll end up with two sets of mostly exhausted crews and it's a nightmare trying to rest some while the other work, but not too hard and blah blah. It's almost easier (buy far too many clickdrags) to just use the 8 hour shifts. 8 hour shift rotations means a painful amount of clicking and dragging, but you've always got a rested crew on duty and a partially rested crew in reserve in case things go wrong. I set up two crews for each compartment, then three watch crews. At 0800, 1600 and 0000 I swap in one of the three watch crews and rotate everyone else. Just wish there was an easier way of doing that. __________________

10-07-06, 05:54 AM	#59
raymond6751 Admirable Mike Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,313 Downloads: 421 Uploads: 0	Rivalry Enough sniping from GW in this thread. Go and browse your own GW stuff and stop filling this thread with nit picking comments that do nobody any service. I have and use both mods and love them both. Each is marvelous by itself and this cheap shot kind of stuff is unworthy of you. Personally, I value all information about either mod and would prefer to spend time reading valuable information than a 'war in words' between two modder groups. It is natural to research the 'other one' but childish to try and belittle their efforts. It isn't necessary guys.

10-07-06, 07:58 AM	#60
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Some kids never learn, ray. Anyways, I must chime in on the fatigue thing. It works okay when you keep your TC low, but as soon as you impatiently scoot across the ocean you get RSI from moving crew about. If you cruise about at 64/128 it isnt felt so badly. The most elegant solution would be to either lessen or entirely remove the exhaustion/fatiguges efficiency modifier. Let it be up to morale really. __________________ "The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - W. Churchill

09-10-06, 03:35 AM	#46
Stiebler Fuel Supplier Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,237 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 4	To Pampanito: The primary reason RUb (last version 1.45) fell by the wayside was because its principal architect, Beery, decided that a) there didn't seem to be any worthwhile new mods to incorporate at that time; b) he was personally more interested in using film-making software. However, RUb forms the basis of both NYGM and Grey Wolves (maybe of other mods too), with both sides adding subsequent new ideas to it. This issue of two separate groups (NYGM/GW), and their mutual incompatability, keeps cropping up, and might as well be addressed again here. It is impossible to reconcile all ideas and/or opinions about what to incorporate into just one mod, so as to please everyone. To cite my usual example: Rubini's Harbour Traffic mod. It has been obvious from many posts over many months that a lot of people love it, and wouldn't want to be without it. Equally, it is obvious that many other players hate its effect on frame rates when in harbour. How can these diametrically opposite views be reconciled? NYGM tries to cater for both groups by adding Rubini's HT as an optional overlay (even so, traffic in U-boat bases has been reduced). But this means that all changes in the basic campaign_SCR.mis file have to be copied over into the HT file too. This is very tedious, and potentially liable to cause errors. It also increases the time for mod-checking before release. One can think of many other examples of mods with strong views for and against their inclusion. To provide options for each and every one of these mods would create a massive, time-consuming and error-prone burden on the underlying super-mod. Until all SH3 users decide that they all want the same mod components, there are always bound to be several giant mods. The surprising thing, in retrospect, is that RUb was uncontested for so long, although even this evolved into sub-groups like IUb. Competition also tends to stimulate new ideas, to everyone's benefit. Stiebler.

09-18-06, 02:43 AM	#48
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well respectfully disagree. Who says its bad two teams work on the same aspects? You get various interpretations. I've tried both mods, and they are NOT the same. Choice is good. And what if they don't like each other? Not a lot of good corporation comes from that.

10-01-06, 10:35 AM	#51
Zinmar Commander Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 304 Downloads: 276 Uploads: 0	Awesome!! Thanks much!!

10-03-06, 07:19 PM	#54
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	"I feel that you may not be using the NYGM Crew Management modlet of TW 2.2. This can happen via Sh3 Cmdr. If using SH3 Cmdr roll back the app and then copy the NYGM TW 2.2 basic.cfg file back." Hmmm....OK, so 'rollback' SH3 Cmds then copy the basic.cfg file from the 2.2 stand alone into the basic.cfg in Cmdr, or where? Definitely sounds like I don't have the crew management working per intention. NO way I could do 12hrs at present unless I'm happy to have efficiency in the toilet by the end of it.... BTW, thanks for your reply. This mod is outstanding, as is the level of support and tips constantly available.

10-04-06, 12:05 AM	#58
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	You've pretty much summed up my experience to date/view. Trouble with 'disabling' fatigue is it ALSO disables recovery from fatigue (unless I'm mistaken). That means you get stuck once you've done some 'real time' playing as you can't recover the fatigue without the other 'half' getting it etc.... Might just disable it entirely. While it's unrealistic, I find mucking around with the crew the whole time a real pain in the arse....in fact it's the one thing I do more than anything else in the sim, and that's clearly NOT right.