Enormous potential- SH5 allows scripting! - Page 4

jazman · 03-02-10, 12:34 AM

I agree with the OP, this could be very big, although qualified by what Nisgeis just said. I have a feeling that a lot of coding work went into this scriptability, more work than we appreciate at the moment as we look over the eye candy and basic changes to gameplay. At least, I'm hoping.

Drifter · 03-02-10, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Most of us don't have the game yet! We know the power of scripting, but it depends on what can be scripted and what can't.

Yes, I know most of us don't have the game yet- including me. I think many here don't know the power of scripting. That is why I was trying to alert non-modders of it's significance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

We knew before release that the UI and AI would be scripted and able to be changed, it's the other things we don't know about - can you add in new equipment for example? How deep does the scripting go?

You keep saying 'we'. Who is 'we'? Me and some others here just now realized the ability to change or add new scripts in SH5. I think it's good to be cautious, but geez. Please show at least a little enthusiasm.

Regardless of how much can be scripted, the modability of SH5 is still a huge improvement over SH3.

Nisgeis · 03-02-10, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter

You keep saying 'we'. Who is 'we'? Me and some others here just now realized the ability to change or add new scripts in SH5.

Well, I guess people who have been following the progress of SH5, the modders especially. The scripting has been mentioned lots of times in various threads, as it came from a dev Q&A quite a while ago. There's even a thread in the mods section about Python. The devs said that certain things can't be scripted and certain controls can't be accessed from a script. What those things are, I don't know. Yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter

I think it's good to be cautious, but geez. Please show at least a little enthusiasm.

No! Must... control... enthusiasm... until have game... in... hands...

Drifter · 03-02-10, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Well, I guess people who have been following the progress of SH5, the modders especially. The scripting has been mentioned lots of times in various threads, as it came from a dev Q&A quite a while ago. There's even a thread in the mods section about Python. The devs said that certain things can't be scripted and certain controls can't be accessed from a script. What those things are, I don't know. Yet.

You know, after I posted that, I discovered your Python post.

Looks like I was in the dark about this whole SH5 scripting thing. Hadn't followed it at all. And that's interesting you mention that the devs said that certain things can't be scripted and certain controls can't be accessed from a script. I didn't know that. Thank you for the info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

No! Must... control... enthusiasm... until have game... in... hands...

I know how you feel. Sometimes I think I get a bit too excited thinking about the scripting possibilities in SH5. I must try to remain calm until I get my hands on the editor.

janh · 03-02-10, 10:43 AM

Scripting is potentially quite useful, BUT only given that the developers implemented SUFFICIENT scripting commands and language. If not, then it won't get you far.

Also note that scripts are slow in terms of CPU cost, i.e. anything that is not implemented in the game engine but is jimmy-rigged by scripts will likely slow down the game when run in numbers. Was the case with Operation Flashpoint, and remains with the Armas. Since Arma 2 there are at least scripting commands for doing almost all sorts of things except side-switching, or reverse config-value manipulations. It is awesome, but it takes a lot of time to implement complex things correctly, and it does slow the FPS notably if you run dozens of scripts on hunderds of units (ACE, SLX etc).

Quite obviously I would conclude that SHV is a bit more open to modding than SHIII. But I don't have the game, nor have I seen how the dynamic campaign is implemented, nor the scripting language. Assuming both of the latter are completely open source and powerful, and that modders fix things like the semi-manual TDC, the gamey-windows type interface etc., then I would say SHV shows huge potential. However, that alone is not sufficient reason to buy as long as the DRM remains. And I can wait as modders will take a few month to a year to get the first REALISM supermod ready...

Nisgeis · 03-02-10, 01:37 PM

Oh yes and one of the devs said that we can't add new variables, which of course severely limits the scope of what we can do.

ozzietj · 03-02-10, 08:37 PM

perhaps this will allow someone to create a tool, conversation maker or something to that effect that achieves a small but critical element of submarine command, relaying orders and having them followed

e.g. Captain to XO - I want the boat surfaced every (insert variable) hours/distance -
*tick boxes for
battle stations manned
AA gun manned
Deck Gun manned
etc
When batteries recharged to X amount, set your depth to X on course.

that sorta thing. instead of manually having to surface the boat, click the same things over and over for a "routine" transit of the patrol, my god.... we have officers. Im sure we can give them something more complex than "COB Rig ship for dive" (sorry, im not good on submarine terms.. excuse me if its wrong).

im sure some of you feel even the lack of control you have now (controlling each engine etc) and dont want to relinquish it.... however i'd find this easier for managing transits. Whilst this is going on you could be walking the sub, talking to your crew... if something happens, it prompts you on action to take like the old ones... "dive/engage/maintain orders"

the way i see it, once you have worked out the efficient speed/distance management of your sub over long distances, you could call up a preset e.g. Cruise mode with the parameters you set.
or a starlight surface running. E.g. once you have crossed a horizontal/vertical line (latitudes/longitudes?) on the map.... (closer to enemy territory).... the ship will stay submerged during daylight, running slower, only surfacing at night to return batteries to strength/recycle air/give the crew some sanity by way of sea spray on the lookout post away from all the farts downstairs

i dont know if any of this makes sense.
but i sure like the voice commands. Make your depth 180 feet, heading 295, all ahead one third, rig for slient running, lower periscope

as fast as i could rattle them off the crew carried it out. That was by far the best thing i ever downloaded to make me feel in charge of my sub. Now im looking to make my XO/team take on some more orders.
Scripting would be the way to go.
I dont know how to write stuff..... im just a concept man.
I guess it would all start out with a series of drop down boxes, type in a number, tick in the box for something on/off etc.... i dont know

i just had the idea when i saw screen shot.... and the speech from the XO was broken up into parts, with the information (variables like speed, type etc) underlined.

I'll stop waffling now.
and thanks for everyones useful input for the game so far.
I've only got a 3G mobile broadband with 500MB per month... hopefully thats enough to play SH5 with!

Drifter · 03-02-10, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janh

Assuming both of the latter are completely open source and powerful, and that modders fix things like the semi-manual TDC, the gamey-windows type interface etc., then I would say SHV shows huge potential.

We can only hope.

CCIP · 03-03-10, 04:14 AM

I've started looking into scripts and indeed at least in theory there is a lot that can be done with the AI using this language. Take a look at this for example:

This is a chunk of the script for AI escort tactics. It allows the AI's response to a submarine contact to be coordinated, currently with 3 special tactics that ships could use. One of them is Operation Plaster.

Quote:

strategy OperationPlaster(Ship)
{
precond
{
Ship:GetCurrentTacticID() == OPERATION_PLASTER and Ship:ContactDetected()
}
strategies
{
Role_OP_Plaster,
Role_OP_Directing
}
}

strategy Role_OP_Plaster(Ship)
{
precond
{
Ship:GetRole() == ROLE_PLASTER
}
action
{
# this step is necesary in order to give the ships time to allign themselsves before starting the first plaster pass
# during the plaster passes (between StartFiringDCs and StopFiringDCs the ship cannot turn right/left
# and because of this it might miss its destination and never stop going forward -- actually until the ship looses contact)
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-800);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

# ready the ship for the first plaster pass
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-150);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

# throw first round of DCs while passing over the contact
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContactKeepFormationOrientati on(200);
Ship:StartFiringDCs();
Ship:GotoAction(0, false, 100);
Ship:StopFiringDCs();
Ship:WaitForFormation();

# go further away in order to have room to turn
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-1000);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

#Ship:TurnToHeading(Ship:GetCurrentFormationHeadin g() - 180, 1.0);

# come back and turn towards contact in the process
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-500);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

# ready the ships for the second plaster pass (all ships should have the same orientation at this point)
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-150);
Ship:GotoAction(0, false, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

# throw second round of DCs on the way back
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContactKeepFormationOrientati on(200);
Ship:StartFiringDCs();
Ship:GotoAction(0, false, 100);
Ship:StopFiringDCs();
Ship:WaitForFormation();

Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-1000);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

#Ship:TurnToHeading(Ship:GetCurrentFormationHeadin g() - 180, 1.0);

Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-500);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitForFormation();

Ship:EndCurrentTactic();
}
}

strategy Role_OP_Directing(Ship)
{
precond
{
Ship:GetRole() == ROLE_DIRECTING
}
action
{
Ship:SetGotoDestRelToContact(-1500);
Ship:GotoAction(0, true, 100);
Ship:WaitAction(15.0);
}
}

Looking through it carefully, you can see a whole number of features programmed in - the pre-conditions for when such an attack would be executed, the assignment of two different roles to escorts, and a whole bunch of parameters for the execution determining how the ship will move, where it will drop its charges, and how it will behave afterwards. You can't count on them just dropping this stuff on your last known position anymore!

How actually effective this is... I'm not sure. But in theory this is now all part of the game and can be edited and added onto very easily by modders, needing nothing more than the notepad and some understanding of the game's commands.

ichso · 03-03-10, 04:22 AM

I wonder whether SH5 will turn out to be a huge U-boat-development-kit in the end. Let the gamers create the game that they like. That would be great on the one hand but I cannot get really warm with that kind of approach compared to just delivering a convincing simulation right out of the box.
It would be like a lot of people paying good money to do half the work on the game they *really* wanted to play in the first place.

03-02-10, 12:34 AM	#46
jazman Commander Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crush Depth Posts: 449 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	I agree with the OP, this could be very big, although qualified by what Nisgeis just said. I have a feeling that a lot of coding work went into this scriptability, more work than we appreciate at the moment as we look over the eye candy and basic changes to gameplay. At least, I'm hoping. __________________ "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- Chesterton

03-02-10, 10:43 AM	#50
janh Stinking drunk in Trinidad Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 349 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	scripting Scripting is potentially quite useful, BUT only given that the developers implemented SUFFICIENT scripting commands and language. If not, then it won't get you far. Also note that scripts are slow in terms of CPU cost, i.e. anything that is not implemented in the game engine but is jimmy-rigged by scripts will likely slow down the game when run in numbers. Was the case with Operation Flashpoint, and remains with the Armas. Since Arma 2 there are at least scripting commands for doing almost all sorts of things except side-switching, or reverse config-value manipulations. It is awesome, but it takes a lot of time to implement complex things correctly, and it does slow the FPS notably if you run dozens of scripts on hunderds of units (ACE, SLX etc). Quite obviously I would conclude that SHV is a bit more open to modding than SHIII. But I don't have the game, nor have I seen how the dynamic campaign is implemented, nor the scripting language. Assuming both of the latter are completely open source and powerful, and that modders fix things like the semi-manual TDC, the gamey-windows type interface etc., then I would say SHV shows huge potential. However, that alone is not sufficient reason to buy as long as the DRM remains. And I can wait as modders will take a few month to a year to get the first REALISM supermod ready...

03-02-10, 01:37 PM	#51
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Oh yes and one of the devs said that we can't add new variables, which of course severely limits the scope of what we can do. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

03-03-10, 04:22 AM	#55
ichso Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germany's oldest city alive Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	I wonder whether SH5 will turn out to be a huge U-boat-development-kit in the end. Let the gamers create the game that they like. That would be great on the one hand but I cannot get really warm with that kind of approach compared to just delivering a convincing simulation right out of the box. It would be like a lot of people paying good money to do half the work on the game they really wanted to play in the first place. __________________ My Subskins: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164169

03-02-10, 08:37 PM	#52
ozzietj Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	perhaps this will allow someone to create a tool, conversation maker or something to that effect that achieves a small but critical element of submarine command, relaying orders and having them followed e.g. Captain to XO - I want the boat surfaced every (insert variable) hours/distance - *tick boxes for battle stations manned AA gun manned Deck Gun manned etc When batteries recharged to X amount, set your depth to X on course. that sorta thing. instead of manually having to surface the boat, click the same things over and over for a "routine" transit of the patrol, my god.... we have officers. Im sure we can give them something more complex than "COB Rig ship for dive" (sorry, im not good on submarine terms.. excuse me if its wrong). im sure some of you feel even the lack of control you have now (controlling each engine etc) and dont want to relinquish it.... however i'd find this easier for managing transits. Whilst this is going on you could be walking the sub, talking to your crew... if something happens, it prompts you on action to take like the old ones... "dive/engage/maintain orders" the way i see it, once you have worked out the efficient speed/distance management of your sub over long distances, you could call up a preset e.g. Cruise mode with the parameters you set. or a starlight surface running. E.g. once you have crossed a horizontal/vertical line (latitudes/longitudes?) on the map.... (closer to enemy territory).... the ship will stay submerged during daylight, running slower, only surfacing at night to return batteries to strength/recycle air/give the crew some sanity by way of sea spray on the lookout post away from all the farts downstairs i dont know if any of this makes sense. but i sure like the voice commands. Make your depth 180 feet, heading 295, all ahead one third, rig for slient running, lower periscope as fast as i could rattle them off the crew carried it out. That was by far the best thing i ever downloaded to make me feel in charge of my sub. Now im looking to make my XO/team take on some more orders. Scripting would be the way to go. I dont know how to write stuff..... im just a concept man. I guess it would all start out with a series of drop down boxes, type in a number, tick in the box for something on/off etc.... i dont know i just had the idea when i saw screen shot.... and the speech from the XO was broken up into parts, with the information (variables like speed, type etc) underlined. I'll stop waffling now. and thanks for everyones useful input for the game so far. I've only got a 3G mobile broadband with 500MB per month... hopefully thats enough to play SH5 with!