Expelled student armed with assault rifle slaughters 17 at Florida high school

[Rockstar]

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center I don't see any historical 'close ties' to the NRA. I think the Spiegel article shows a certain level of ignorance of American history.

"In fact, the beginning of the Klan involved nothing so sinister, subversive or ancient as the theories supposed. it was the boredom of small-town life that led six young Confederate veterans to gather around a fireplace one December evening in 1865 and form a social club. the place was Pulaski, Tenn., near the Alabama border. when they reassembled a week later, the six young men were full of ideas for their new society. it would be secret, to heighten the amusement of the thing, and the titles for the various offices were to have names as preposterous-sounding as possible, partly for the fun of it and partly to avoid any military or political implications."

The KKK was never meant to be what it is today. It started out as an eccentric social club by six former confederates. Only later did it re-invented itself into the terrorist organization it is today.

The NRA organization was never that. Behavior of some of its members however may be an entirely different story.

Just because Cruz was a student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. It doesn't mean every one else there is as sick or evil as he is.

[vienna]

The source for the above:

Ku Klux Klan - A History of Racism and Violence (6th Ed., 2011) --

(Website Version)

https://www.splcenter.org/20110228/k...history-racism

(PDF Version)

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/defa...-of-Racism.pdf


The essay has these paragraphs following a bit after the previously quoted passage:

Soon after the founders named the Klan, they decided to do a bit of showing off, and so disguised themselves in sheets and galloped their horses through the quiet streets of tiny Pulaski. their ride created such a stir that the men decided to adopt the sheets as the official regalia of the Ku Klux Klan, and they added to the effect by donning grotesque masks and tall pointed hats. They also performed elaborate initiation ceremonies for new members. Similar to the hazing popular in college fraternities, the ceremony consisted of blindfolding the candidate, subjecting him to a series of silly oaths and rough handling, and finally bringing him before a “royal altar” where he was to be invested with a “royal crown.” the altar turned out to be a mirror and the crown two large donkey’s ears. Ridiculous though it sounds today, that was the high point of the earliest activities of the Ku Klux Klan.

Had that been all there was to the Ku Klux Klan, it probably would have disappeared as quietly as it was born. But at some point in early 1866, the club added new members from nearby towns and began to have a chilling effect on local blacks. The intimidating night rides were soon the centerpiece of the hooded order: bands of white-sheeted ghouls paid late night visits to black homes, admonishing the terrified occupants to behave themselves and threatening more visits if they didn’t. It didn’t take long for the threats to be converted into violence against blacks who insisted on exercising their new rights and freedom. Before its six founders realized what had happened, the Ku Klux Klan had become something they may not have originally intended — something deadly serious.

As with many aspects of life, it isn't what someone or something starts out as that's ultimately important, it what they are or have become that really matters; I'm sure Nazism just started with a bunch of guys bitching over beers; if that was all they did, no one would care...

On the other hand, a bunch of guys in New England bitched over ales and decided to to do something positive about their gripes and, in the end, we have our nation. Don't know about you, but I'm more impressed with the New Englanders than I could ever possibly be with those "silly" ex-Confederates and their sympathizers...










<O>

[mapuc]

I have read and heard several companies in the States have cut their support to NRA and the protesters is growing among the youngsters

If my memory doesn't play tricks with me I seem to remember the same thing happened last time the were this mass shooting(Las Vegas)

Lots of protest and angry voices towards NRA.

As last time- After a couple of month NRA was back on track with companies supporting them.

Markus

[Catfish]

Nothing changes.

[Rockstar]

Nope, it appear things never change. Never a solution, no wisdom, divert the attention and play on the fears of the ignorant, turning tragedy into a political power grab.


People need a boogie man and even though in my opinion they had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting the NRA happens to be it.


As an owner of several firearms and not belonging to any political party or 'gun club'. I have absolutely no problem making behavioral and prescription records available to authorities when purchasing a fire arm. But the problem with that is you then make the government fully responsible for any mass shooting thereafter because they (the government) OK'd the applicants purchase.

[Catfish]

This is the usual twisted right-wing "logic", designed to divert from the real issue, desinformation and dumb. Call scientific methods "politically inspired", and all gun critics "snowflakes".
Proposing to arm teachers as a 'solution'?
You have no idea how this all looks, from here.

[vienna]

Oh, he does; he's just desperately hoping no one else does...











<O>

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

This is the usual twisted right-wing "logic", designed to divert from the real issue, desinformation and dumb. Call scientific methods "politically inspired", and all gun critics "snowflakes".
Proposing to arm teachers as a 'solution'?
You have no idea how this all looks, from here.

I said nothing of snowflakes, YOU DID. I said nothing of Right wing or left wing politics, YOU DID.

What I said was nothing ever changes in fact you just proved my feking point. Whether its you turning tragedy it into some political farce about us and them. Or someone making a call to arm teachers. There is never any wisdom, or solutions. Nothing ever changes. This will soon be forgotten and one day it will happen again like a bad dream because nothing ever changes. No wisdom, no solutions just political drama and power grabs, a boogie man, and media circus.


And frankly I don't give a ratzarse what it looks like to you. That's not the problem.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center I don't see any historical 'close ties' to the NRA. I think the Spiegel article shows a certain level of ignorance of American history. [...]

Whether the 'Spiegel' shows ignorance about american history.. i think you do. The relatively short history of the USA shows close ties to weapons and malevolent behaviour, it is even called gun culture by its very inhabitants. Maybe the NRA has absolutely nothing to do with the shootings (what i seriously doubt regarding propagating public access, allowances and financing "ego shooters" (what a perfectly fitting name b.t.w.) for "gamers"), but whatever: the very beginnings and existence of something like the NRA is exactly one example of the problem and the general mindset. This alone has not much to do with the KKK, i agree. But "you" do not even want to see the problem that lies behind, but instead arm all teachers and pupils? How sick is this?

[Skybird]

Meine Fresse.

Just to make sure everybody understood what the article indeed has said:

KKK and NRA

The founding of the NRA in 1871 is closely linked to the end of the Civil War in 1865. For the first time, blacks also got access to weapons - and promptly there were first efforts to restrict this again. It was about "taking away the ability of the blacks to defend themselves," later NRA President David Keene said in retrospect. It was not by chance that the NRA formed at the same time as America's first Ku Klux Klan movement was under pressure to re-invent itself as "rifle groups."


Later, as the US civil rights movement began to dismantle the white power in the 1950s and 1960s, the NRA transformed itself from a rather harmless sports hunter and gun control organization to a radical lobby in the arms industry with one goal: more weapons but preferably only for whites. That was well received by the Conservatives in Washington, who were fighting Malcolm X, the Black Panthers, and other black rebels. Weapons control became an ideological dispute between Democrats and Republicans, left and right.

And further:

Indigenous people and slaves

Weapons created America. The US fought for independence from the British crown by force of arms and since then distrust the idea of ​​a powerful central state. Thus, in 1791, the "Second Amendment" came into being, which, of course, tied the ownership of weapons to a "well-regulated militia", a vigilante that could oppose state assaults - a condition that many US gunners today happily ignore.


Also often forgotten: the gun law, already codified separately in many US colonies, served not only to protect against oppression from above, but also to suppress revolts from below. Forcibly, the new Americans first expelled the indigenous peoples - then forcibly consolidate their power and control their slaves.

[Delgard]

The problem with articles is that they have a focus based upon someone's well-intended research and intent. The intent is where the biasness usually becomes noticeable. Good or bad, accurate or not.

One article, is not history represented in a complete way...Definitely not something to only post of the bad.

What is needed are the fixes and their good points and bad points. Someone mentioned physical security and I thought that some schools are rather large with multiple entrances. I school is a place for exposure; sports, arts, academics, even rehabilitation. All running at different times and needing accesses and exits.

Just that one consideration exposes the school and those in it, but what to do...?

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Have those inactive guardians already given their reasons why they decided not to aggressively go in? Maybe they indeed only have weaseling excuses, but we should want to be sure that there was nothing that appeared to them as a good reasons not to do right that what they did: keeping in their place. Total confusion about what was going on, and where, and how many.

Just for the sense of complete overview. I mean, blindly running around like a beheaded chicken, or flipping a coin for the right direction to shoot at, everybody can. Doing somethign that indeed makes sense - that might be something different.

Do we know for sure that it was stupidity or cowardice or shock or whatever that has frozen them in place? Ifso, if they were incomoetent, then yes, spank them. If they had some valid reasons, however, well, then it are valid reasons.

I do not want to excuse anyone for anything. Just asking, for I would like to know.

Let's see.
They are Sworn to serve and protect. Failed on both those points no matter the reasoning.

I'm pretty sure you'd not need to flip a coin on which direction to shoot!
Hear and follow the gun shots. If the perp at the source is not dressed like you? KILL the SOB!! They are supposedly trained LEO's after all.

Perhaps they wanted someone kneeling on a floor begging not to be shot before they wanted to shoot him dead. That has happened in the U.S.A.
Even that LEO was not convicted of a crime so what did they have to fear?
Oh! I might get hurt!!!

[Jeff-Groves]

Since September 2001 LEO's have been called Heroes just for doing their jobs.

Broward County just crushed that seeing that they couldn't or wouldn't do their job when needed in a drastic way.

Sorry LEO's. None of you are Heroes any longer until you prove it on an individual basis. Suck it up Butter Cups! Your just another Guy doing a job.

[Platapus]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...gress-money-no

An interesting article on the political power of the NRA and how it is not about the small percentage of donations.

[Jeff-Groves]