jamal Khashoggi murdered by Saudi agents

[Mr Quatro]

Y'all are off subject go back to post 116 and start all over again

[Rockstar]

Shiite, Sunni wars. Salafism vs Wahabbism, Saudi Arabia, Erdogan Caliphate, Iranian influence and proxy wars, Syria, Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, tribes competing for regional power.


Amazingly some make it all about Trump as if he just established the boundaries we call the Middle East.

[August]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Shiite, Sunni wars. Salafism vs Wahabbism, Saudi Arabia, Erdogan Caliphate, Iranian influence and proxy wars, Syria, Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, tribes competing for regional power.

"We didn't start the fire, it was always burn..." erm sorry I just channeled a little Billy Joel for a second there!

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

[...] So let's ask the question. What do you have against those Justices? I know what the Democrat Senators had against them. It's not that they aren't qualified. They are all highly qualified. Certainly as qualified as any of the current Justices. No it's all about their conservative and originalist view of the law and the constitution. Is that your objection? [...]

The poor misunderstood right minority. With 'qualified', you mean exactly what? You know it is indeed and directly the right wing views and prejudices, their plans to change society and their coming to biased judgments, like, as you might remember, Mr Bannon from Breitbart, that are imho wrong and dangerous.

You let nuclear plants be controlled by private companies owning said plants, and not by independent commissions? What could probably go wrong lmao. The 'president' coming from the right-wing rich establishment cuts taxes for his good old boys. Tax reduction, yeah, while 20 percent of said reduction address 1 percent of the population.

If the chief judge of a country is right wing and anti-abortion, a climate change denier, his actions and judgments will reflect that. Like Trump's EPA decisions to shut down the national parks, destroy them to make more money. You put a fox in charge of a henhouse.

A democrat-leaning man or judge is indeed more neutral and reasonable than a right-wing one, and usually has a more modern educated mindset. And this is the point.

You cannot expect reason from a Bin Salman, an Erdoghan, a Xi Jinping or any other egomanic right-wing potentate. You cannot expect sanity from an insane.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The poor misunderstood right minority. With 'qualified', you mean exactly what?

What don't you understand about qualified. They went to law school. Yale, Columbia, Harvard. They became lawyers. They clerked for lower court judges and then for Supreme court justices. You know just like all the other Supreme court Justices. They were not washing dishes before their appointments. Do some research.

A democrat-leaning man or judge is indeed more neutral and reasonable than a right-wing one, and usually has a more modern educated mindset. And this is the point.

The very idea that someone who has conservative view points is unqualified for any office shows the authoritarian bent of the left. The constant crowing about having the moral high ground is laughable and hypocritical. Your attempt to demonize people for their political beliefs is the most constant failure of both the left and the right. Proper political discussion isn't accomplished by saying 'Mr Bannon from Breitbart'.

Nothing makes a democratic society work like the diversity of ideas and view points. What the left wants is a uniformly ridged political and social thought pattern.Their obsession with political correctness, identity politics and equality of outcome are far more troubling to me than having a conservative Judge on the Supreme court. The current war against free speech at liberal universities threatens to bleed out into the world at large along with all the disturbing and violent tendencies that go with it. When these indoctrinated 'democrat-leaning' people control all aspects of political and bureaucratic life I guess you will be happy.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

What don't you understand about qualified. They went to law school. Yale, Columbia, Harvard. They became lawyers. [...]

You can become a lawyer as a stalinist or a Nazi, no problem. 'Technical or juristical knowledge' alone tells nothing about your state of mind. It is also about social skills and empathy, and common sense.

[...] The very idea that someone who has conservative view points is unqualified for any office shows the authoritarian bent of the left.

And the very idea that someone who has liberal or progressive view points is unqualified for any office shows the authoritarian bent of the right.

When i once said that someone should think twice before making a right-winger a moderator in a certain forum, i was not thinking of his technical abilities, or that he was dumb (he was definitely not). It was just that there was a certain tendency to ban people who did not fit in his right-wing world view, which imho made him unsuited for the job. Bias. No, not here in this forum. And yes, i think right-wingers are more authoritarian.

And I do not demonize them, i think Trump is doing a pretty good job in making himself unbearable without needing help by me, or anyone. And yes i indeed think there are people better suited and with a better moral base (your term, not mine) than Trump.

Proper political discussion isn't accomplished by saying 'Mr Bannon from Breitbart'.

So then you think what Trump does, or Bannon did, or a lot of Trump's minions do or say, or what was purported about Hillary Clinton, or this idiotic boasting about Winning and being The Greatest and a Stable Genius in those tweets is "political discussion"?
This is exactly bedeveling the enemy, propaganda at a very low level. And now the far right gets butthurt because people being insulted unexpectedly strike back?

You want to discuss Bannon's or Trump's moral background?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You can become a lawyer as a stalinist or a Nazi, no problem. 'Technical or juristical knowledge' alone tells nothing about your state of mind. It is also about social skills and empathy, and common sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are saying here in a round about way is that only people who agree with your political philosophy have social skills, empathy and common sense. Those who don't are Stalinists or Nazis? If you are not saying that what are you saying?

The two gentlemen we are talking about(I think), Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh have long careers in the American justice system. Yes their decisions are based on a conservative interpretation the United States Constitution. Ruth Bader Ginsberg's interpretations are based on a progressive/liberal view point. Again it's that authoritarian/moral high ground that comes out which decides that one is good and the other is not. What do you base that on?

So then you think what Trump does, or Bannon did, or a lot of Trump's minions do or say, or what was purported about Hillary Clinton, or this idiotic boasting about Winning and being The Greatest and a Stable Genius in those tweets is "political discussion"?

No I don't. I prefer a rational discussion. I don't have to defend Trump, Bannon or anyone else. Why do you think I do? And who are you defending?

You want to discuss Bannon's or Trump's moral background?

Not really. Nor do I want to discuss Bill or Hillary Clinton's either. Or anyone of a ever growing list of corrupt politicians on either side of the political divide. It depresses me.

And yes, i think right-wingers are more authoritarian.

If you think that then I don't think you have been paying attention.

[Catfish]

Yes, i indeed think that a neutral, libertarian(?) or at least slightly "left" leaning person is indeed better suited to be a "statesman". As long as we seem to need the latter.

Stone, W. F., & Smith, L. D. (1993). Authoritarianism: Left and right. In W. F. Stone, G. Lederer, & R. Christie (Eds.). Strengths and weaknesses: The authoritarian personality today. New York: Springer-Verlag

also here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-...thoritarianism

The phrase "right-wing" in right-wing authoritarianism does not necessarily refer to someone's politics, but to psychological preferences and personality.

"There have been a number of other attempts to identify "left-wing authoritarians" in the United States and Canada.
These would be people who submit to leftist authorities, are highly conventional to liberal viewpoints and are aggressive to people who oppose left-wing ideology. These attempts have failed because measures of authoritarianism always correlate at least slightly with the right.

However, left-wing authoritarians were found in Eastern Europe.
There are certainly extremists across the political spectrum, but most psychologists now believe that authoritarianism is a predominantly right-wing phenomenon."

Which correlates with my personal experience. But it is only an opinion, and your mileage may vary.

[Rockstar]

Ummm, I think you just validated several points u-crank made.


From the links you provided.


Concerning the book "Strengths and weaknesses: The authoritarian personality today". Bob Altemeyer has been a source of encouragement and a ready adviser on any question we have asked. Also, concerning Bob Altemeyer's work. "Theoretical problems involved the psychoanalytic interpretation of personality, and methodological problems focused on the inadequacies of the F-Scale. Another criticism is that the theory of the Berkeley group insinuates that authoritarianism exists only on the right of the political spectrum".


So far zero book sales through Amazon.


I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So far zero book sales through Amazon.

Odd, but when I checked on Amazon (I was curious to see a book with zero sales, I mean not even self or relatives?), there were 26 reviews, which indicate some sales, and, going by the usual way sales and reviews work, there are probably not a few who bought the book or audio CD who didn't bother to write a review. Wherever you got your "no sales" info was, most likely, fake news...








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[Catfish]

Certain books are not mainly sold via Amazon, not even today
Rockstar, thanks for that picture of you

What about the original theme of this thread. "Great allies", Realpolitik.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by vienna

Odd, but when I checked on Amazon (I was curious to see a book with zero sales, I mean not even self or relatives?), there were 26 reviews, which indicate some sales, and, going by the usual way sales and reviews work, there are probably not a few who bought the book or audio CD who didn't bother to write a review. Wherever you got your "no sales" info was, most likely, fake news...








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I was commenting on Strength and Weakness: The Authoritarian Personality Today https://www.amazon.com/Strength-Weak...qid=1542829531


And just so you know there buck 'o' I get my news from very reliable sources.

[vienna]

Well, as long as you use the same reliable sources as Trump...

Excuse me, now; I've got to buy some cereal and I need to find my voter ID so I can go to the store...







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[Rockstar]

These days anyone can get a voter registration card. I hear in California you're automatically enrolled when you turn 18


I had to show my U.S. Passport to the DMV before they would issue a drivers license.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

These days anyone can get a voter registration card. I hear in California you're automatically enrolled when you turn 18


I had to show my U.S. Passport to the DMV before they would issue a drivers license.

It is true here in CA there is automatic enrollment, but there is a vast difference between being registered to vote and actually voting; in 2016, the last year for which statewide voter participation stats are available, the voter turnout was only 56% of the total registered. Some people try to confuse/conflate the idea of registration with actual participation in order to make a situation seem far worse than it actually is; here in LA County, a local TV 'hard hitting investigative reporter' ran a segment about how over 540 name of dead voter were still on the rolls; however, there were only 17 votes cast under those names and it was not said if those votes were actually counted, just that votes in those many had been cast. So, those 17 votes represent only 0.031% of the dead voters on the rolls, and, there being over 5,000,000 registered voters in LA County, those 17 represent only 0.0000034% of the total registered voters. Let's face it: those 17 votes, if they weren't caught by the verification process, would have about as much affect on the vote tallies as adding a grain of sand to a beach. Trump started all this hoo-haw about voter fraud, neither he nor his minions have been ever able to come forward with a single, solid instance of wide voter fraud and, when you look at the actual stats regarding the true extent of alleged fraud, the results are there is no evidence of election-affecting fraud...

As far as the automatic registration goes, the program here in CA is part of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, a Federal Law:


About The National Voter Registration Act --

https://www.justice.gov/crt/about-na...gistration-act


CA's system is provided through the Department Of Motor Vehicles (DMW):

California Motor Voter --

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/cal...a-motor-voter/

Since 1993, the National Voter Registration Act, often known as the Motor Voter law, has helped millions of people register to vote or update their voter information during a driver license or ID card transaction at the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).

The California Motor Voter program applies to Californians who are 18 or older and meet the following criteria:

• A United States citizen and a resident of California.
• Not currently in state or federal prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony
• Not currently found mentally incompetent to vote by a court.

Voter pre-registration is available for Californians who are 16 or 17 years old. They will automatically be registered to vote when they turn 18. Before visiting a DMV field office, we recommend making an appointment. You can also use DMV online services to renew your driver license or ID card or change your address.

If you indicate that you are eligible to vote, once you complete your DMV transaction online, by mail, or in person, your voter information is transmitted securely and electronically to the California Secretary of State. Once your eligibility to vote is determined, you will be registered to vote.

Individuals with AB 60 driver's licenses are not eligible to participate in the California Motor Voter program and are not eligible to vote.

So, in spite of your allusion to a 'global' automatic registration at age 18, it only applies a person applies for a Driver's License; no DL application, no automatic registration. Everybody else, 18 or over have to register, if they wish, the old fashioned way and fill out the form in their county. Note, also, the National Voter Registration Act is nationwide, has been in effect abut 25 years, and I would suspect there are similar programs in the other states, so basically noting new and nothing sinister...


Your state must make it pretty easy if all you needed was a passport to Id yourself for a license; here in CA, this is what you need to get apply for a license (from the CA DMV website):

Provide proof of your Social Security number*, such as your:

Social Security card.
Military ID card.

Provide proof of your full and true name. The CA DMV provides a list of documents, including documents that show:

Marriage or verification of domestic partnership formation.
Dissolution of marriage or domestic partnership.
Name change. (Must include original and new names.)

Provide 1 document (original or certified) that proves your birth date and legal presence from the state's list of documents, which includes:

U.S. birth certificate.
U.S. passport.

Present 1 document proving your California residency from the DMV's list of approved documentation, which includes:

Mortgage bill.
Utility bills.
Rental or lease agreement signed by your landlord.

Have your thumbprint taken.

Have your photo taken.

...and, under the new Federal Real ID Act of 2005, the CA DMV will require a certified copy of a birth certificate, something you have to get from whoever holds the records of your birth...


That's the problem with the country nowadays: lenient states that allow people to get thing like licenses with just a passport...











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