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Old 10-11-2007, 04:57 AM   #61
danlisa
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@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:01 AM   #62
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Farewell, Abraham
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:17 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danlisa
@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:31 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlisa
@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.
I agree.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:58 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlisa
@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.

I agree.
What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:08 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikimcbee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlisa
@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.
I agree.
What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.
I never knew him but i also think it would be goood to put him in the subsim almanac.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:45 AM   #67
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I didn't know him but from what I've heard he must have been a great chap!
I don't know if there's a special song in the Netherlands that is sung at such occasions, but I do know a song that is sung at Irish-American funerals:


Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.

And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.

And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:53 AM   #68
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Bram Zeegers …. Better know to us all as simply Abraham.

By an accident of fate I probably spent a lot of time with Bram on the Holland Subsim meet in 2005. It wasn’t planned and neither of us particularly sought out the other. I shared his car on the day we visited the Dykes. He asked me to create a new avatar for him and he posed for some shots on a ferry one day. My last lunch in Monnikendam was also spent with him, before he drove me to the airport. You could say I got to know him fairly well. But then again, how much can you really learn about someone in a short snapshot like that. You meet, you discus, you move on. Certainly nothing at the time hinted at the kind of ugly scenario we now see in the Dutch newspapers. Reflecting on that trip there were some clues that Bram might have moved at a high level. He was clearly a remarkably articulate and intelligent man. When asked what he did for a living he made reference to training as a solicitor and spoke of being an “estate agent”. How significant those words seem now.

We shared an interest in history and I took great pleasure in being able to throw a question at him and then just listen to the answer unfold . You learnt to choose your own words carefully because he clearly had the knowledge base to quickly peel away your arguments, albeit in a most respectful and good humoured way.
Its eerie seeing that photograph now.. Aren’t we just a bunch of ordinary folk who share a common interest in naval warfare ? Then you wake up and there is that playful photograph in the context of a world I will never experience or would never want to. Within it all there is a story we can only guess at. Did Bram pay the price for an act of bravery? The pressures he must have been under ? Was it suicide, murder accident ?

What price now to be able to ask Bram some questions ?

Rest in Peace, Bram. I only wish I’d taken more time.

Last edited by horsa; 10-11-2007 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:58 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsa
But then again, how much can you really learn about someone in a short snapshot like that.
What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:54 AM   #70
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Quote:
What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.
Indeed. His personality came over clearly in his posts.

One of my favourite shots.

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Old 10-11-2007, 10:47 AM   #71
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Seeing I'm new I didn't know him, but it's good to see he was a well thought of man. Tragic, very tragic. Go with God, Abraham
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:00 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsa
Quote:
What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.
Indeed. His personality came over clearly in his posts.

One of my favourite shots.


I remember the last day of my visit in the Netherland. we met at a resturang in Monnickendam and he tried to learn me, how to eat clam. Later on Horsa came.

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Old 10-11-2007, 11:21 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth8530
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikimcbee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlisa
@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.
I agree.
What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.
I never knew him but i also think it would be goood to put him in the subsim almanac.
reading the events on the first page and the link of The Avon Lady on the 2nd one i agree with these guy's, i never actualy knew him, but its a tragical thing to loose a fellow subsimmer

fair winds Abraham, and may that POS mob boss feel the concequences
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:26 AM   #74
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Well if I was a protected witness in such a trial I sure would like to see the authorities organizing my *death*, so that everybody forgets about me soon :hmm: Even if a remote chance, I hope such thing could have happened and Abraham is OK and still with us. If he really isn't any longer, then my prayers are with him and his family. You will be missed as a honest and courageous man!
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:18 PM   #75
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Terrible and sad news! Being a witness in that kind of trial is, in my opinion, one of the strongest signs of personal integrity, and today it is rare that people have the courage too acctually follow through your sense of moral duty in practice. Whatever happened to you Abraham, I hope many people will remeber you and be inspired, not discouraged.

we will miss you here
R.I.P. Abraham.


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