Info/help asked: Corrupted sunrise/-set times in saves

Rosencrantz · 08-14-16, 02:46 PM

Now a helping hand could no a lot. Question is, how the game treats sunrise and sunset (also moonphases)? Are they hardcoded or what? I'm asking because once again the sun got off it's track in SHIV save file.

Short description about what happened:

Departed Naval Submarine Base Cavite, Manila, Philippines on 2 Dec 1941 at 1305 local time. Because of real life businesses used TC 1 the following 13.5 hours during which proceeded to open sea, made a test dive and then left the coastline on northwesterly courses. No saves until in the end of the period. Saved the game 3 Dec 0331 local time while running on surface, TC 1, 13.5 knt.

Loaded the game again in the next day, continued transint on northerly courses, TC 1. Waited sunrise about 0612 local time, but running in darkness still at 1100 am.

Don't believe this is mod releated, but a SHIV fail. Mods used TMO 2.5 OH, RSRDC patched, OTC realistic scopes patched, RSRDC_TMO pre Pearl Harbour start, and Captain Midnight Radio. No other problems with those.

Used normal SH save procedures as told before. Seen this happening every now and then both in SHIII and SHIV but not a clue what causes solar system fail.

Any info, ways to fix and so on much appreciated!

Greetings,
Rosie

propbeanie · 08-14-16, 03:15 PM

I'd always put that to latitude and longitude, versus Honolulu time, but if not, it would be interesting to hear others take on this...

Rosencrantz · 08-14-16, 03:23 PM

Sorry, propbeanie, but I did not undestood what you mean by "put that to latitude and longitude, versus Honolulu time".

RC

Rockin Robbins · 08-14-16, 03:23 PM

Your boat is always on the time zone if its home port. If you leave from Pearl and proceed to Japan the sun sets many hours later than your clock thinks it should. You're on Pearl time so you can coordinate communications to timeframes that make sense to them What makes sense to you isn't important. Who's the Admiral and who's the lowly sub commander there?

propbeanie · 08-14-16, 04:08 PM

Or, "scientifically" speaking (I haven't even been to a Holiday Inn Express lately), you're 5300 miles west of Pearl Harbor, which is like six time zones, AND the international date line, so yesterday in Manila is today at Pearl (I think...). Pearl is about 1600 miles north of the equator, manila is about 1100. Days are longer in the Phillipines by a bit, but that time zone change, especially the different day thing, can really mess with you... Or are you noticing something different? Like the Aleutian Islands effect?...

Rosencrantz · 08-15-16, 03:52 AM

Rockin and propbeanie, now you are both wrong.

1. I'm not in Pearl Harbour time because my homeport is Manila. I'm in Manila time.
2. I clearly stated I used 13.5 hours time compression 1 => I was not some 5500 nm west of my home port when I saved but less than 3 degrees! I left Manila, in Manila time, and was only some 30 - 60 miles west of Lingayen Gulf. Practically moved none during those 13.5 hours.

Sorry, but got a bit irritated when read your replies.

RC

propbeanie · 08-15-16, 06:21 AM

Sorry you feel that way. It'd be nice if you tone your rebuttal down. I may or may not be correct in my "assumption", and I stated it as such. They do not state, in the game's documentation, how they handle time. However, Pearl Harbor was the headquarters of the fleet. If it's 5pm Sunday in Honolulu, it's 11am Monday in Manila is all I'm saying I put it to... Where I worked, New York was the headquarters, and everybody was on New York time... The first question you ask: It seems to be hard-coded. You might be able to mod it, I don't know. I wonder what the ATO fellers have? But I have no clue as to what you're seeing in your game. I'll be sure and steer clear of any of your questions in the future, even if you invite any and all... I'm irritated, and I've been trying very nicely to word this reply...

Rosencrantz · 08-20-16, 11:15 AM

Hello, propbeanie!

Nope, if you start your career or your new patrol in Manila for example, then you'll be in Manila time. Starting from Midway you'll be in Midway time... just like starting in Pearl you'll be in Pearl time. That's the way the game works.

But that's not the problem I wrote about. I have checked sunrise times in Manila and compared them with NOAA data - game is pretty accurate.

The problem is that I have expereinced several times serious celestical system fail during a patrol causing serious offset for both sun position (sunrise times) and moon positions. Like I wrote in the first post, 5 - 6 hrs delays in Apparent Sunrise. And to be clear, this is not due to extensive change in submarines position - within a week (RL) that has happened to me on two different patrols just in home waters before I have practically moved to anywhere. Every time sunrise times have been all right in the beginning of the patrol, but after one or two game days sun might rise suddenly at 1200 compared about 0612 which would be the correct time.

In the mean time I have tried to find out what triggers celestical system fail, but so far I haven't got any luck with that. During test runs (3-5 game days) during which I have stayed near my home base but used frequently very high time compression up to 2000+ (don't remeber the exact number), everything has worked very well and the game seems to be very accurate. But right away when I have started a real patrol, things gets messy very quickly.

At the moment my best quess is that either:

a) the game doesn't like TC used in other stations than map view (during patrols I have used TC32 while in crew management view, which I haven't done yet during test runs) or
b) the game doesn't like very long continous sessions up to 8 - 12 hours at TC1 most of the time (test runs have been very fast thanks to high TC used. That's something I rearelly do while in real patrol).

I'll report in if I'll be able to trigger solar system fail during test runs.

RC

Rockin Robbins · 08-20-16, 01:32 PM

Well, I've chronicled solar system craziness since the game was published. One player published a nearly full moon setting beside the sun from Dutch Harbor and remarked how realistic it was. Oh, yeah, the moon was twice the diameter of the sun.

The sun and moon are almost exactly the same diameter in the sky at ALL times. If the sun and moon are only 10º apart, there is no lit portion of the moon to see. All you would see is the sun. In order for the moon to be full, it MUST be opposite the sun in the sky. Therefore the full moon rises exactly at sunset and sets within 50 minutes of sunrise. ALWAYS and FOREVER.

This stuff was common knowledge to farmers 100 years ago, but since we've moved on to more sophisticated and "superior" lifestyles, we've forgotten any astronomy that used to be common knowledge.

Silent Hunter 4 is not an astronomy simulator, it's a submarine simulator and we have to accept shortcomings in nonconsequential areas that have nothing to do with sinking targets or getting our fool selves killed.

Rosencrantz · 08-21-16, 03:28 PM

@ Robbins: yep, the game is not a planetarium but still I find these problems quite irritating. It's also interesting, why I have been able to make clean test runs up to 5 days using quite high time compression and moving much longer distances but the game suddenly fails in 1 - 3 game days with much slower speeds used.

I even made frequent saves and reloads during test runs keeping in mind this could be a save file fault also. Still I don't believe this has originally nothing to do with saving because I have witnessed this "drifting" of the solar system before I have saved even once.

I'd be interested in to hear about similar experiences if someone would like to share them.

RC

Rockin Robbins · 08-22-16, 09:19 AM

You know, just because astronomy is fascinating to me, after we publish FOTRS Ultimate, I'm going to spend time trying to break the Universe in Silent Hunter 4! If I break the space/time continuum and suddenly we all turn into sentient cockroaches, it was all Rosencrantz' fault.

Rosencrantz · 08-26-16, 04:07 PM

Ok, Rocky. Just do not only break the Universum, fix it too.
Things are really weird here again:

Departed Manila 2 Dec 1941 at 1300. Sun position at time of departure (1300) 207T. First couple days were pretty ok what becomes to solar system, then suddenly on 6 Dec 1941 while NW of Lingayen Gulf sun position at 1300 is 170T. Also sunrise was some 1.5 hours late (0754 on 6 Dec compared to 0627 on 3 Dec).

I'm trying to do semi-real navigation in the game so this really sucks. Don't know how the guyes can handle full real navigation in SH4?!? Not to even mention immersion spoiler aspect the frequently failing solar system causes...

RC

Berserker · 08-26-16, 06:01 PM

Simple solution...Dive at dawn surface at sunset...And watch out for planes...

08-14-16, 02:46 PM	#1
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Info/help asked: Corrupted sunrise/-set times in saves Now a helping hand could no a lot. Question is, how the game treats sunrise and sunset (also moonphases)? Are they hardcoded or what? I'm asking because once again the sun got off it's track in SHIV save file. Short description about what happened: Departed Naval Submarine Base Cavite, Manila, Philippines on 2 Dec 1941 at 1305 local time. Because of real life businesses used TC 1 the following 13.5 hours during which proceeded to open sea, made a test dive and then left the coastline on northwesterly courses. No saves until in the end of the period. Saved the game 3 Dec 0331 local time while running on surface, TC 1, 13.5 knt. Loaded the game again in the next day, continued transint on northerly courses, TC 1. Waited sunrise about 0612 local time, but running in darkness still at 1100 am. Don't believe this is mod releated, but a SHIV fail. Mods used TMO 2.5 OH, RSRDC patched, OTC realistic scopes patched, RSRDC_TMO pre Pearl Harbour start, and Captain Midnight Radio. No other problems with those. Used normal SH save procedures as told before. Seen this happening every now and then both in SHIII and SHIV but not a clue what causes solar system fail. Any info, ways to fix and so on much appreciated! Greetings, Rosie Last edited by Rosencrantz; 08-14-16 at 03:02 PM.

08-14-16, 03:15 PM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,742 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	I'd always put that to latitude and longitude, versus Honolulu time, but if not, it would be interesting to hear others take on this... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

08-14-16, 03:23 PM	#4
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Your boat is always on the time zone if its home port. If you leave from Pearl and proceed to Japan the sun sets many hours later than your clock thinks it should. You're on Pearl time so you can coordinate communications to timeframes that make sense to them What makes sense to you isn't important. Who's the Admiral and who's the lowly sub commander there? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-14-16, 04:08 PM	#5
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,742 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Or, "scientifically" speaking (I haven't even been to a Holiday Inn Express lately), you're 5300 miles west of Pearl Harbor, which is like six time zones, AND the international date line, so yesterday in Manila is today at Pearl (I think...). Pearl is about 1600 miles north of the equator, manila is about 1100. Days are longer in the Phillipines by a bit, but that time zone change, especially the different day thing, can really mess with you... Or are you noticing something different? Like the Aleutian Islands effect?... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

08-15-16, 06:21 AM	#7
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,742 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Sorry you feel that way. It'd be nice if you tone your rebuttal down. I may or may not be correct in my "assumption", and I stated it as such. They do not state, in the game's documentation, how they handle time. However, Pearl Harbor was the headquarters of the fleet. If it's 5pm Sunday in Honolulu, it's 11am Monday in Manila is all I'm saying I put it to... Where I worked, New York was the headquarters, and everybody was on New York time... The first question you ask: It seems to be hard-coded. You might be able to mod it, I don't know. I wonder what the ATO fellers have? But I have no clue as to what you're seeing in your game. I'll be sure and steer clear of any of your questions in the future, even if you invite any and all... I'm irritated, and I've been trying very nicely to word this reply... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna Last edited by propbeanie; 08-15-16 at 07:05 AM. Reason: re-do...

08-15-16, 03:52 AM	#6
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Rockin and propbeanie, now you are both wrong. 1. I'm not in Pearl Harbour time because my homeport is Manila. I'm in Manila time. 2. I clearly stated I used 13.5 hours time compression 1 => I was not some 5500 nm west of my home port when I saved but less than 3 degrees! I left Manila, in Manila time, and was only some 30 - 60 miles west of Lingayen Gulf. Practically moved none during those 13.5 hours. Sorry, but got a bit irritated when read your replies. RC

08-20-16, 11:15 AM	#8
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Hello, propbeanie! Nope, if you start your career or your new patrol in Manila for example, then you'll be in Manila time. Starting from Midway you'll be in Midway time... just like starting in Pearl you'll be in Pearl time. That's the way the game works. But that's not the problem I wrote about. I have checked sunrise times in Manila and compared them with NOAA data - game is pretty accurate. The problem is that I have expereinced several times serious celestical system fail during a patrol causing serious offset for both sun position (sunrise times) and moon positions. Like I wrote in the first post, 5 - 6 hrs delays in Apparent Sunrise. And to be clear, this is not due to extensive change in submarines position - within a week (RL) that has happened to me on two different patrols just in home waters before I have practically moved to anywhere. Every time sunrise times have been all right in the beginning of the patrol, but after one or two game days sun might rise suddenly at 1200 compared about 0612 which would be the correct time. In the mean time I have tried to find out what triggers celestical system fail, but so far I haven't got any luck with that. During test runs (3-5 game days) during which I have stayed near my home base but used frequently very high time compression up to 2000+ (don't remeber the exact number), everything has worked very well and the game seems to be very accurate. But right away when I have started a real patrol, things gets messy very quickly. At the moment my best quess is that either: a) the game doesn't like TC used in other stations than map view (during patrols I have used TC32 while in crew management view, which I haven't done yet during test runs) or b) the game doesn't like very long continous sessions up to 8 - 12 hours at TC1 most of the time (test runs have been very fast thanks to high TC used. That's something I rearelly do while in real patrol). I'll report in if I'll be able to trigger solar system fail during test runs. RC

08-20-16, 01:32 PM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, I've chronicled solar system craziness since the game was published. One player published a nearly full moon setting beside the sun from Dutch Harbor and remarked how realistic it was. Oh, yeah, the moon was twice the diameter of the sun. The sun and moon are almost exactly the same diameter in the sky at ALL times. If the sun and moon are only 10º apart, there is no lit portion of the moon to see. All you would see is the sun. In order for the moon to be full, it MUST be opposite the sun in the sky. Therefore the full moon rises exactly at sunset and sets within 50 minutes of sunrise. ALWAYS and FOREVER. This stuff was common knowledge to farmers 100 years ago, but since we've moved on to more sophisticated and "superior" lifestyles, we've forgotten any astronomy that used to be common knowledge. Silent Hunter 4 is not an astronomy simulator, it's a submarine simulator and we have to accept shortcomings in nonconsequential areas that have nothing to do with sinking targets or getting our fool selves killed. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-21-16, 03:28 PM	#10
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	@ Robbins: yep, the game is not a planetarium but still I find these problems quite irritating. It's also interesting, why I have been able to make clean test runs up to 5 days using quite high time compression and moving much longer distances but the game suddenly fails in 1 - 3 game days with much slower speeds used. I even made frequent saves and reloads during test runs keeping in mind this could be a save file fault also. Still I don't believe this has originally nothing to do with saving because I have witnessed this "drifting" of the solar system before I have saved even once. I'd be interested in to hear about similar experiences if someone would like to share them. RC

08-22-16, 09:19 AM	#11
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	You know, just because astronomy is fascinating to me, after we publish FOTRS Ultimate, I'm going to spend time trying to break the Universe in Silent Hunter 4! If I break the space/time continuum and suddenly we all turn into sentient cockroaches, it was all Rosencrantz' fault. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-26-16, 04:07 PM	#12
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Ok, Rocky. Just do not only break the Universum, fix it too. Things are really weird here again: Departed Manila 2 Dec 1941 at 1300. Sun position at time of departure (1300) 207T. First couple days were pretty ok what becomes to solar system, then suddenly on 6 Dec 1941 while NW of Lingayen Gulf sun position at 1300 is 170T. Also sunrise was some 1.5 hours late (0754 on 6 Dec compared to 0627 on 3 Dec). I'm trying to do semi-real navigation in the game so this really sucks. Don't know how the guyes can handle full real navigation in SH4?!? Not to even mention immersion spoiler aspect the frequently failing solar system causes... RC

08-26-16, 06:01 PM	#13
Berserker Aggressive skipper Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 328 Downloads: 2166 Uploads: 0	Simple solution...Dive at dawn surface at sunset...And watch out for planes... __________________ Shoot,Move,Communicate..Kill,Destroy,Eradicate...