Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by jean74

Hi Mr H.sie,
Many thanks for your reply. I was hoping that you had included it in your "todo-list" because SH3 COMMANDER randomizes the value at each game launch (but not during the game). That's why I don't use SH3 COMMANDER.

You do know there is more to SH3 Commander than just thermal layers, and I'm pretty sure you can edit them out.

[urfisch]

Originally Posted by h.sie

I have no access to it ATM, but I remember that it is overcrowded.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by rudewarrior

You do know there is more to SH3 Commander than just thermal layers, and I'm pretty sure you can edit them out.

Much, much more. So much that I consider it to be every bit as important as any supermod.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Much, much more. So much that I consider it to be every bit as important as any supermod.

+1

[Olamagato]

1. Realistic Repair Times

"Repair times of all U-boat equipment [...] take 60 times longer than before." Can I change (how?) or you can prepare revised version of this fix for 600 times longer than before? IMHO 3 gameplay hours is not enough to give real time required to perform some repairs (even for 1 device). After 1943 (especially 1944), many ships returned to the base of damaged equipment due to lack of time to fix them while still constantly attacked. 3 hours repair of one unit is IMO not enough to make them appear realistic because the time to fix any device you had to turn off the other and thereby reduce further the possibility of the ship. Also many repairs forced the ship's ascent to the surface. Maybe 15-30 hours of gameplay (without your fix 3 minutes) would be more appropriate.

2. Inaccurate range-estimations

Would this possible, such refinement of this fix depends on the crew status (experience?) weapon and watch officer? And whether it is possible to inaccuracy could also apply to AOB for weapon officer? Perhaps it is not important for full realism gamers, but many beginners install supermods on SH3 as first action has choice of only two options: Manual targeting (initially 0% hits), or use always perfect weapon officer (100% hits). Non-perfect WO would give a better reason to learn manual targeting and also would give better play to those who believe that the role of captain of the ship is not setting torpedoes (what else does WO beyond making sure e-torpedoes recharged?), but to make sure that the crew was getting better (or best) and he undertook the best strategic decisions.

3. Internal torpedo reload fix

Erich Topp (R.I.P.) being a technical consultant for Silent Hunter 1, said in an interview that storm conditions were completely undetectable after descending one-two meters below the waves level. This means that even in a heavy storm 15-20m depth for reloading the torpedoes should be quite sufficient. The need to dip all the way to 30m would mean that he wave height limit, which would have no impact on the ship because it would be almost 60m wave height is calculated from its base to the apex, and not from the mean sea level. It would not be a storm, but on the open seas incredibly high tsunami wave that could reach the shore of 600-1000m (x10...x20). So I think 30m is too much depth as it is value, rather like a rabbit pulled out of a hat. Additionally, forces the player to switch depth leaving the first depth scale [0-25m] practically unused for this purpose. Therefore, in my opinion would be 20m in this case, is still large, but the best balanced value.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!

Good questions. I would like to point out one tiny detail error:

Originally Posted by Olamagato

Erich Topp (R.I.P.) being a technical consultant for Silent Hunter 1

That would be SH2. SH1 was an American fleet boat game, whose consultant was Bud Gruner.

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

WELCOME ABOARD!
I would like to point out one tiny detail error

Yes, you're right. My mistake.

[reaper7]

Welcome aboard Olamagato

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by reaper7

Welcome aboard Olamagato

Thanks. I see that my Silent Service was effective for two years and swam in this forum completely undetected.

@h.Sie
4. Torpedo Failure Mod
Commanders of both German and American submarine bypassed the problem by using more than enough torpedoes, which increased the chance that at least one torpedo reaches its destination. However, in this fix defective torpedoes are unfortunately drawn series. Fired after a few more torpedoes in 1943-1945 (but not in salvo) proved that all the shot are defective, but this should not happen with probability of 2%. You may be improved random number generator used for this purpose?

[h.sie]

@Olagamato:

1) The next mayor version V16B will include all of the current Alpha Testing Mods and will very likely come with an .ini file containing some adjustable parameters. One of them will surely be the factor that enlarges the repair time - since I also think that the current factor of 60 is too low.

2) The question is not whether a certain mod request is possible, since all is possible in principle. The question is whether there will be someone who programs it. I am not the one, since it is too much effort for me compared to the outcome.

3) The current value was not taken from historical based information since we had none so far. Thus, it was a "forum consensus", from what forum members were thinking to be a realistic value. Could you please point me to a source that approves your declaration. I could also make this value of 30m configuratble via .ini file. Also I have no problem to reduce it to 20m or even periscope depth. In the meantime you should disable this mod, if you don't like it.

4) Did you consider the possibility that the mistake is yours? We (LGN1 and me) tested this fix intensively and in 1943 - 1945 we had very low failure rate PROVIDED we set the torpedo depth deeper than 0.4xWindspeed. Setting the depth too shallow will cause a higher failure rate. See the readme and the graphics in the 1st post.

5) Hello.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Olamagato

3. Internal torpedo reload fix

Erich Topp (R.I.P.) being a technical consultant for Silent Hunter 1, said in an interview that storm conditions were completely undetectable after descending one-two meters below the waves level. This means that even in a heavy storm 15-20m depth for reloading the torpedoes should be quite sufficient. ....

Welcome to Subsim, Olamagato!

The US Navy claims (http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/faq.html, Point 21) that in violent storms 'wave motion can reach 400 feet or more below the surface'.

From a game-play point-of-view I don't think it makes a big difference whether you use periscope depth, 20m, or 30m. The crucial point is that you have to submerge and thus, your speed is reduced.

Cheers, LGN1

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by LGN1

in violent storms 'wave motion can reach 400 feet or more below the surface'.

Hi. 400 feet but during... "extremely violent storms like hurricanes and cyclones". Wind speed of hurricanes and cyclones are more than 200 km/h, or 55 m/s. SH3 does not simulate these storms. The biggest storms in the game, reflect only ~16 m/s. In addition, the text is based on the experience of a nuclear-powered ships, which have a much better sensor than the U-boats of World War II. In the latter case, the best sensors were their own feet. It should also be noted that the quote you provided is more focused on maintaining the perfect depth, and not feel the rocking ship. About this at all because there is no question: "during even moderate storms the submarine stays perfectly level at its submerged depth while the waves crash above".
A simple calculation of the depth of the impact of waves in the wind of 15 m/s for water movement under the water gives only 8.1 m instead of 30 m. Therefore, I think that 30 m is much too large minimum depth for reloading torpedoes. Therefore, I believe that given by you quote perfectly agrees to comments by Erich Topp. The result is 8.1 m + ~10 m (from keel to hidden periscope of U-boot) = 18.1 m = ~20 m.

[Olamagato]

@h.Sie Thank you for your answer.

Originally Posted by h.sie

The question is whether there will be someone who programs it. I am not the one, since it is too much effort for me compared to the outcome.

Perhaps I am one of those who could it be programmed but I lack technical knowledge about SH3.exe that are in your possession.

I could also make this value of 30m configuratble via .ini file.

It is quite enough to me.

Did you consider the possibility that the mistake is yours?

I already know at least three people who met with the same problem. There is a problem these 2%, but that the next few torpedoes belongs to the 2%. My hypothesis is that the torpedo is taken further, the same random value or a random number generator is seeded unnecessarily by the same value such as time-dependent (and this is perhaps a certain time resolution identical).

[h.sie]

@Olamagato: It would be a fatal beginners error to seed the pseudo-random generator with the same value every time a random number is generated, since this leads to identical series of numbers.

The random generator of sh3.exe is seeded only once at game start and then produces its series of pseudo random values. The seed value is dependent on system time (in milli-seconds!!) in order to prevent from reproduction.

The key for the random generator is 32 bit long, that means the series will be repeated after 2^32 = approx. 4.300.000.000 random numbers, what should be sufficient for our purposes.

Conclusio: The random number generator isn't the problem.

Remaining possible causes:

1) Programming error of h.sie
2) Error of some users (wrong depth setting in high windspeeds)

Anyhow, I'll try to reproduce that issue in the next time.

[h.sie]

For those who have problems with the Torpedo Failures Fix V1.1:

I've programmed a special DEBUG version in order to locate the problem:

http://www.mediafire.com/?t1ua7niyzjaeep8

Be careful: This DEBUG fix may not be installed together with my current other 4 JSGME-ready Alpha Testing Mods, thus, disable them while using this DEBUG fix.

In this DEBUG version, every time the fix forces a torpedo to be a dud, the Navigator says "Dud" in the game console BEFORE the normal "Firing tube N, sir!" message.

Example: If you fire a salvo of 4 torpedoes and the fix forces torpedo number 2 to be a dud, you get the following messages on the console:

Firing tube 1
Dud
Firing tube 2
Firing tube 3
Firing tube 4

If you fire a salvo, make sure that every torpedo is set to a depth of 0,4 x Windspeed or deeper.

This should help to locate the error. If you encounter a problem, please tell me

* Torpedo depth (check every torpedo individually in single mode, not in salvo mode).
* date of your mission
* torpedo pistol
* Windspeed
* your GUI
* what you have drunken

By the way: If you don't hit a ship, this does not automatically mean that the torpedo was a dud.