heavy seas always sink enemy ships......

[suitednate]

Whenever I come across enemy ships in heavy seas (13+ wind), it never fails, they WILL sink even if they haven't been hit yet. I came across an enemy convoy once of about 12-14 ships in these types of heavy seas and I think about 7 of them sunk by themselves. No hits on those ships at all. Anyone else experiencing this?


Running mods:
RFB
RSRD
Improved ship physics

[vfrflyer]

Happened to me too last night after I added ISP. Seas were so bad I could almost always never get my boat fully surfaced and it went on for 2 weeks straight. I seriously hope this is not a bug with ISP. ToprX would be the guy to ask.

[merc4ulfate]

Use ISP 2.15

[suitednate]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

Use ISP 2.15

I am using that. Do the "divine wind" seas mostly sink the enemy ships in your game too?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by suitednate

Whenever I come across enemy ships in heavy seas (13+ wind), it never fails, they WILL sink even if they haven't been hit yet.

I consider this to be a feature, not a bug.

That is not a flippant answer. A prime objective of ISP was to have realistic sea-keeping. This means having heavy seas that really do cause operational problems for the player. With stock or RFB alone, they do not. To accomplish this, I had to crank up waves pretty high. I wanted them as high as I could have them without them being entirely ridiculous, or making the game unplayable. If the waves are not high, you won't get any significant speed reduction.

I made a final proof test of the weather by having a couple convoys plow through the weather with 13 m/s force waves, for 24 hrs. and evaluating them at that level. Note that these were ocean-going ships, not small coasters, fishing boats, or luggers. Of the ones I checked, only the minesweeper (I forget if it was the No. 13 class or another one, but they are not much different) had difficulty. All the more sea-worthy vessels tested did very well.

So, that leaves the question of small ships, and ships in weather, with winds above 13 m/s. Certainly, some ships will sink as winds climb above 13 m/s. I structured the Scene.dat so that wave effects should increase steeply above 13 m/s. I did not do extensive testing of ships at higher levels, but can say that at 15 m/s levels, the Hog Island, Clemson, and Flower corvette, will sink fairly quick. This is not caused by changes to the ships, nor will all ships suffer the same difficulties. Any ship with low freeboard will be more vulnerable.

As long as most ships can survive in weather at 13 m/s levels, I consider this to be an acceptable model. In very severe weather, you would not be able to make a successful torpedo attack, and you certainly couldn't use your deck gun, so it isn't unrealistic to have operational limitations in this way. You can consider these sunk ships to be victims of the weather, other subs, or just consider that the weather has forced shipping to stay in port. The way I see it, if ISP doesn't cut down tonnages bagged, it isn't doing it's job.

As far as weather getting stuck, there is nothing I changed that is related to intervals between changes. AFAIK, the only thing we can mod related to change intervals, is in the mission/campaign files, and I didn't touch those. I agree, having never-changing weather is a drag, especially when it is bad weather, but that isn't related to ISP.

I had a short career, where I was stuck for a week or so with 14 m/s winds, and yes, it was a drag. I couldn't make a torpedo attack. And yes, I had ships sink before I could get to them, but such is life. I believe this was due to the mission file having "no changes" for the wind, in the file. I'm not sure how the bulk of the mission/campaign files are written in this regard. Beyond changing the mission files, I'm not sure what could be done. In spite of being inconvenienced at times, I still like ISP and the waves. I would rather have it this way, than go back to vanilla weather, where it is basically a non-factor.

Perhaps, I should have warned people of this, but thought it would be better for people to discover some of these things themselves.

[vfrflyer]

That works for me. Thank's for the explanation of how it works too. Was easy for me to understand. I thought it may have been a glitch but it's definitely going back on because it makes total sense. Thanks.

[suitednate]

All very valid points torpX. I guess I'll just bypass any ships I encounter in 14-15m/s weather. I guess I have also noticed when the wind is that strong is that an enemy plane can fly right over me in clear broad daylight and not see me? At least that is what I have experienced so far.

I guess my gripe is with the weather engine itself. These crazy heavy seas seem a little too common in the game. I thought the South Pacific was supposed to be pretty calm notwithstanding the occasional seasonal tropical storm/typhoon. The game makes it seem more like the North Atlantic. I know the North Pacific can be rougher more frequently than the South Pacific. Am I correct on these observations? Input anyone ?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by suitednate

I guess my gripe is with the weather engine itself. These crazy heavy seas seem a little too common in the game. ..... Am I correct on these observations? Input anyone ?

You are probably correct. I consider the weather engine to be one of the major areas where Ubisoft dropped the ball.

It is significant that in this game, there are many factors related to visual/graphical elements, but many fewer related to mechanical elements. In SH1, the graphics were primitive (by current standards), but they got the basics right. If you were in heavy seas, you struggled to go a few knots. If you wanted to go faster, you had to submerge to 100 ft. Even at p/d, water turbulence slowed you down. It seems Ubi didn't really think much about the weather.

[merc4ulfate]

Actually I have had less weather related sinking's since using the newer version of ISP.

How long would it take your boat to go from New York to Dallas, Texas if it was sailing a straight path in water? That is 1,380 miles.



The largest storm was just that size in the Pacific Ocean. If you had been caught in it the weather would have lasted a good week being that you would be doing about 10 knots until the weather slowed you down to 5.


On Oct. 12, 1979, Super Typhoon Tip's central pressure dropped to 870 mb (25.69 inches Hg), the lowest sea-level pressure ever observed on Earth, according to NOAA. Peak wind gusts reached 190 mph (306 kph) while the storm churned over the western Pacific.

Besides having unsurpassed intensity, Super Typhoon Tip is also remembered for its massive size. Tip's diameter of circulation spanned approximately 1,380 miles (2,220 km), setting a record for the largest storm on Earth. The storm's huge diameter was exactly the same as the distance from New York City to Dallas

[TorpX]

Actually I have had less weather related sinking's since using the newer version of ISP.

I forgot to add that I did tweak the scene.dat file for v2.15 to moderate the waves at lower levels. The stock game defines waves at 0, 5, 10, and 15 m/s points. I tried adding a couple more points, but the game ignored them. I finally changed them to 1, 5, 13, and 15. The idea here is to keep severe waves near 15 m/s, make them a little less so at < 13, and have things pretty calm at < 5 m/s. The bottom line is that most ships can survive waves at 13 m/s, without problems, but they become rapidly more severe above this level.

[Crannogman]

Do AI ships turn into the wind during big storms like this? It would make a big difference to survivability IRL, but I haven't seen the AI respond much to weather

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Crannogman

Do AI ships turn into the wind during big storms like this? It would make a big difference to survivability IRL, but I haven't seen the AI respond much to weather

No. The AI is clueless about the weather, and the waves orientation doesn't follow the direction of the wind. There are a lot of limitations in the game, in this regard.

[Crannogman]

In 25 years there will be a game that accurately depicts the historical weather & tides, with a dynamic campaign and near-human AI (they'll have to dumb it down). But everyone will be too busy playing Dopaminecraft to notice

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Crannogman

In 25 years there will be a game that accurately depicts the historical weather & tides, with a dynamic campaign and near-human AI (they'll have to dumb it down). But ...

I'd bet it will be for U-boats.

[Captain Dave]

Are the seas supposed to be this crazy?
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