Cuties... What am I doing wrong?

[Vaux]

I just recently started playing around with Mk 27 Cuties. On my last patrol, I loaded out with a couple just to give them a try, and I sank a lone Fubuki destroyer with them. It was dusk, the seas were heavy, and the DD was only making 7 knots. I took the shot from periscope depth with engines stopped and the crew at Silent Running while in visual contact with the DD at about 1,800 yards. He started going for the bottom after the first hit, so the second one was an unnecessary hit. So, I'm thinking, these things are pretty cool!

I've read a couple of posts here on the Cuties and also did some Wiki research on them. I've seen several mentions on here of other skippers firing them at depths well in excess of PD.

Well, next patrol, and I'm assigned to do a photo recon of a harbor on the Southern tip of Japan (whose name escapes me right now). I arrive near the mouth of the inlet just as the sun is coming up. The weather is "perfect", meaning it's the worst possible conditions to try to shoot up the inlet during the day... Wind, overcast, and precipitation all zero. So I decide to dive deep, go to All Stop, and wait for sundown.

Fast forward to about 1400 and my sonar man reports a contact, moving slow, closing, at long range.... and then another contact.... and another... then a fast-mover closing... and another fast mover... then a couple more slows.... Well, my curiosity was officially piqued, so I decide to go to Silent Running with screws rotating at below 25 RPM, and go to periscope depth.

I'm looking at a large convoy of 7 merchants in 3 columns - a mix of Akita, Buzyun, and Zinbo Marus - and 5 assorted DDs, moving starboard to port from my perspective. I couldn't be in a more perfect position if I'd planned it. I was planning on staying down for at least another 10 hours anyway, so I decide to go for it.

Dipping my scope, plotting courses, and noting speeds, I predict that the lead ship in the center column, a Zinbu, will pass my bow at about 1,800 yards, the lead ship in the closest column, an Akita, will pass my bow at about 1, 400 yards and slightly behind the Zinbu, and the Mitzuki DD on the convoy's left flank will pass my stern at about 1,000 yards about the same time the Akita passes my bow.

My plan is to shoot 3 mark 14s at the Zinbu then, about 5 seconds later, shoot 3 at the Akita, then down scope and head for 400 feet still at Silent Running and low RPMs. As I approach 150 feet, I'll fire the 2 Cuties I have in the stern tubes at the DD. Well, when I get to the last part of my plan and try to fire the Cuties, I get a message stating "Unable to compute firing solution" and the Cutie wouldn't fire.

What gives? Is it because I'm using Auto Targeting? If so, is there a way to over ride that on the fly?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Vaux

What gives? Is it because I'm using Auto Targeting? If so, is there a way to over ride that on the fly?

It cold be that you lost your firing solution due to time elapsed.

It could also be that the tube doors will simply close at a certain depth.

[Vaux]

I know the tube doors were open, because I heard them close after I passed 150 feet. I attempted to fire them before reaching 150. Should I have locked onto the DD with the Cuties selected to get a firing solution? I never locked on the DD, so maybe that's what I did wrong? Since they're homing, I just kind of assumed that I could just let them swim out and lock onto the first sound contact and didn't necessarily have to have a firing solution like with a Mark 14. Bad assumption?

[merc4ulfate]

The fish still need a setting to fire.

If your scope is forward and you try to fire aft it wont work.

If you had never used the lock at all you would have been fine. All you would have needed was to put the scope to your firing bearing and let it rip. From my experience, once you touched the lock it messes this up. If you use the lock at all then you need to lock onto that DD. Once you do it will hold but the DD will move.

Now if you have submerged you should be able to go to the scope and turn it slightly or adjust an offset angle on the fish. If it is not to far away the cuties should hear him anyway and I try to set mine at the shallowest depth and if I feel that the target is even shallower I will use the magnetic detonator so even if it passes below the hull it will go off.

[Vaux]

Merc,

My scope was near 0 degrees when I submerged, so that sounds feasible. I'm going to smack myself in the forehead if all I had to do was turn my scope towards my stern.

ETA: I'm also not sure I ever had the Cuties selected when I swept my scope over the DD. That may have contributed to the "no solution" issue.

[merc4ulfate]

What I do is even with the scope down if you have your attack map you turn the scope to a bearing and check the attack map. The map will show where the fish will run towards. Then I either turn the scope some more or simply turn the boat to put the tract where I want it. Sometimes I have hit crash dive and I will already be in a turn so I have the doors open already and as soon as I get close to the bearing I am firing at I will let lose.

I will even do this for other torpedoes knowing if the escorts see them they will turn to avoid and give me a few more seconds to escape for myself. Sometimes I get a few kills over that.

[Vaux]

Well, Merc, you nailed it. I found a lone Nippon Maru, went to PD and lined up for a shot at about 1,200 yards. When the pip went green, I noted the bearing, lowered my scope, turned my scope about 180 degrees, and hit the fire button. I got the error message again, and no joy on the Cutie firing. I then turned the scope back to the original bearing and the Cutie fired just fine.

Good advice on your last post as well!

[merc4ulfate]

I was using radar bearing alone one day in a storm and had come across a Task Force.

Using the radar and Task Force formations I knew the lead ship was an escort and so were the port and starboard ones. There were three ships after the lead escort in a straight line so these must be capital ships.

I was within 1500 yards but could not see a thing. Adjusting for the cycle of the radar going around I fired all six forward tubes at the lead capital ship while I was running a parallel course. Two were cuties so as soon as I fired I went all stop but stayed on the surface. Four torpedo hits were heard and the cuties were still on there way.

Using the radar and measuring out the course, speed and direction they were doing about 18 knots. It was my hope the other fish would slow down what ever was out there as a lead vessel.

It did slow down not only for the hits but also when she turned north. The cuties hit and I think the ship dropped to 10 knots. Escorts were noticed coming closer on the radar so I moved off and stayed far enough away where the escorts could not see me in the storm.

Even at 1500 yards during the day the target could not see me so it was easy to avoid the escorts. I maneuvered around until I had more fish in the tubes and got myself into a position to fire forward and aft. I got four more hits out of the ten fired. I was hoping this was a carrier and she would sink soon.

The ship slowed way down after that and soon came to a stop. I circled around and manged to get three more fish into it.

I got credit for sinking a Yamato Battleship.

[Spraug]

Nice one with the Yamato. I hope I'll get a chance at one of those eventually - already had once, but I was out of ammo, except for 20mm AA and I really didn't think that would do the trick.

My experience with cuties is not so great so far - I only used them once: when I came at a Liner task force - three liners (two modern, one old big one) guarded by two destroyers up front plus one each at 4 and 8 o'clock. It was perfect submarine weather: overcast skies and choppy, but not stormy seas. At low speed they would never see me.

Approaching the task force at their 2 o' clock so I had a perfect angle. The tubes were loaded in a Noah's Ark outfit (two each of cuties, electric and classic - what is that Mk 27, 18 and 14?) and I decided to launch one cutie at each of the lead destroyers and then the Mk 18s at the first liner, then the steam ones at the second. By that time it wouldn't matter if the DDs heard me, because they would be burning. I launched the first four quickly and then wanted to check the attack map for an update when I noticed that the cuties were just "strolling around" like they were window shopping, neither going for the DDs nor in the original fire direction. Plan quickly changed, since by now we were pretty close anyway, the escorts got the classic steam treatment (Mk 14), which worked beautifully and then a nice cat-and-mouse game ensued which ended with me sinking the whole Task Force (four DDs and three liners) and I guess all is well that ends well, but … how exactly do you use cuties? Only in calm weather?

Thanks

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Spraug

… how exactly do you use cuties? Only in calm weather?

Thanks

I think the secret of using cuties is not to expect too much. This torpedo was a wartime improvisation derived from the antisubmarine FIDO torpedo. Somebody just got the bright idea to shove it out a torpedo tube instead of dropping it from a plane. It only does 10 knots max, which was fine for catching submerged U-Boats but not so hot for catching escorts.

[Armistead]

Cuties were designed to damage the props of small escorts, not really to sink. You need the right angle, often if they have to turn hard, they'll lose contact and head off.. Heck, if you're not careful, they'll chase you, but you can cut engines.
They seem way overpowered in stock, most supermods they don't do much damage except to smaller escorts and never seen one get sunk by one cutie. I stopped using them long ago.....want something with punch.

[Spraug]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

I was using radar bearing alone one day in a storm and had come across a Task Force.
…
Adjusting for the cycle of the radar going around I fired all six forward tubes at the lead capital ship while I was running a parallel course. Two were cuties so as soon as I fired I went all stop but stayed on the surface.
...
I got credit for sinking a Yamato Battleship.

Really, I have to learn that RADAR method.

Just imagine that in real life you would not have know. Then, years later, after the war, some commission tells you: "Bye the way, don't know if you still remember that one big bucket you sank in the storm? That was the biggest and meanest battleship of the whole war!"

And with your information, I have made my peace with cuties. I now only use them in aft tubes to persuade pursuers to look for easier prey. And I've also had some sinkings with it, at least one of which is even realistic:

When attacking a convoy, I managed to penetrate the screen and sank several ships, when a DD saw me. He had to circle around a tanker wreck so I knew how he would have to approach me and that I still had time for a shot. Normally it's a bit tricky when they come at you like that because they still turn and it's always a guessing game how fast they do that. But I had a cutie ready so while moving away from the DD I aimed and launched it. I could see that it corrected its course straight for the enemy's propellers, but, set at 1.5m depth it hit the hull slightly ahead right next to the magazine of X- and Y-turrets and the DD immediately blew sky-high. That felt good!