SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics > PC Hardware/Software forum
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-17, 11:01 AM   #1
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default Failing to install Mint 18.2

Robbins, or anyone in the knowledge of Linux Mint, does this make sense to you?

Its the last chapter and current status of Linux worries I am fighting against since two days. Long story short: while wanting to create a bootable Mint Live 18.2 USB stick as emergency backup (my existing one still is 17.2) something - cannot define it any closer, I have no idea - went wrong, and so I did it under Windows then, with another stick. Actually there was more misery involved with that, too, but it plays no role here. After that, and one system (the linux notebook) shutdown, and rebooting it hours later, I got greeted with a message that I should put in a valid boot medium. And thats it.

I cannot boot into my notebook's Mint 18.2 anymore. But its even worse.

Getting engaged on the issue - and having lots of words exchanged with the major German forum on Linux Mint - I found, that I also cannot get into the system via Grub Superdisk, or a Linux Live boot medium (DVD, or USB stick) with Mint 18.2. A book installation DVD with 18.1 (an introductory book on Linux that came with one of these DVDs for starters) also does not get me into the notebook, not to mention the installed 18.2.

However, an old DVD with 17.2 can get the notebook booting in 17.2, so does a stick with 17.2.

I' clueless and now out of advise. The experts in that forum are puzzled and slowly become angry that I cast a cloudy shadow in their sunny Linux land. I am also starting to fell getting lead in circles.

I know little about Grub, nothing, to be more true; the option where you can let Grub analyse what OS options are present, lists Linux Mint 18.2, and that then can only refer to the installation on the HD. Choosing that leads to a long wait, and then the demand for a root password - which i never have heard of before and thus never have set. I tried my account logins, but to no success.

This is queer. The notebook came with 18.1 preinstalled, I wanted preinstallation so that the shop had to demonstrate and give guarantee for comple component compatability with Linux. But I am unable to and totally locked out when wanting to install Mint 18.2. I cannot do it, it is impossible apparently. I can install 17.2, assuming that the installation button on the Linux Live setup desktop does work and is not causing more, new mess.

Any ideas? The major German Linux Mint forum seems to have no advice left. Im getting a little bit desperate.

Currently having reactivated my tower'S second HD with my old testing installation for 17.2. The 18.2 boot media I mentioned, work on this tower PC, flawlessly. The boot it in 18.2 Live.

An Installation DVD for W7 also works in the notebook, gets launched, loads stuff and then ask for permission to proceed (which I of course denied, it was just a test). 17.2 seems to run fine as well. But not 18.2. No way to reinstall it.

Somebody needs to get me out of this, I know no way out anymore. So far I lost many hours, many words, and two USB sticks that got destroyed in the processes in the past 48 hours. I'm already lucky that I did a data backup just in time. Just in time. Many new photos I just had done.

P.S. I assume that the media, the notebook and the tower technically are fine, are not broken. No hints for that at least nmone that I could identify as hints for technical flaws.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 08-15-17 at 03:02 AM.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-17, 07:26 PM   #2
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

A German made me testing booting with Live media for Mint 18.0 and KDE neo, I think he wanted to see whether it is about differences in the Kernels. Both attempts failed, freezed in the middle of nowhere. He said it could be just before the GUI gets loaded, how he comes to that theory I don'T know, the screen does not show whether or not the GUI was about to load or not, it all just freezes. mI just mention it as an additional observations. I have a relatvely new ans strong notebook - but can only load/install a Mint of the past...? It has still support until April 2019, okay, but still... I asked in the biggest German forum for this OS. Nobody has a clue. And I started to feel seriously pissed. Not becasue of the people, but the totally locked situation, no step forward or backwards.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-17, 08:52 PM   #3
propbeanie
CTD - it's not just a job
 
propbeanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: One hour from Music City USA!
Posts: 9,719
Downloads: 439
Uploads: 2


Default

When you load the 17.2, can you "see" the 18.2 hard drive in the same machine OK? Can you navigate through the folders?
__________________

"...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna
propbeanie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 03:02 AM   #4
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Yes, I even saved some photo files of recent date that so far had not been included in regular backups.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 04:09 AM   #5
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Live Ubuntu 16.04.3 medium also freezes during installation attempt. Just tried.

Live Mint 17.2 still works.

Mail from the shop, they are clueless.

Throwing the whole thing out of the window sounds like a reasonable alternative now.

I quit in the German Mint forum, they have started to become angry that I throw a shadow in sunny Linux land. Will try an international forum, but with no real hope left anymore.

So langsam geht mir die ganze Computerei einfach nur noch auf die Nerven.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 04:26 AM   #6
ExFishermanBob
Difficulties Numbing
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: AN19
Posts: 470
Downloads: 43
Uploads: 0


Default

Can I understand more clearly:

You create a bootable USB stick, boot to 18.2, but there is a failure during 18.2 installation.

I have had a similar problem, when I downloaded the installation ISO, but the download was corrupted (damaged). It appeared to install correctly, but booting produced an 'insert bootable disc' error message.

Re-downloading the ISO and verifying the checksum allowed me to proceed and install successfully (on 4 machines and a virtual box image so far), including on machines that previously ran 17.3 or 18.1.

Note: the above were Cinnamon installs, not KDE, but that should not matter.

https://linuxmint.com/verify.php

Last edited by ExFishermanBob; 08-15-17 at 04:27 AM. Reason: Added verify link
ExFishermanBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 05:28 AM   #7
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFishermanBob View Post
Can I understand more clearly:

You create a bootable USB stick, boot to 18.2, but there is a failure during 18.2 installation.

I have had a similar problem, when I downloaded the installation ISO, but the download was corrupted (damaged). It appeared to install correctly, but booting produced an 'insert bootable disc' error message.

Re-downloading the ISO and verifying the checksum allowed me to proceed and install successfully (on 4 machines and a virtual box image so far), including on machines that previously ran 17.3 or 18.1.

Note: the above were Cinnamon installs, not KDE, but that should not matter.

https://linuxmint.com/verify.php

The boot media described that fail on the notebook, all work on my tower PC flawlessly.

I now have tested:

- with Mint 18.2 (stick and DVD) ,

- and only DVD: 18.1, 18.0, Ubuntu 16.04.3, KDE neon 5.10.4 (I think this version it was). They all fail. However, on the tower system they work. Flaw is with the notebook. Only tested by DVD, because I ran out of sticks meanwhile. One even ended up by getting drowned in boiling tea water I threw it into in frustration.

I tested with Mint 17.2,. both stick and DVD: works both on notebook and tower PC.

I want Mint Cinnamon 18.2, that also is what is installed on the notebook.

Super-Grub option to check for existing OS, finds Miunt 18.2, can only be the one on the notebook SSD. Choosing thios option leads to some activity, racing command lines, and then a demand to enter a root password that I never met before, never have defined, never have set up. Entering nothing, space, "linux"/"linux" or my Mint account name and password, do not work.

How it came to this?
On the notebook I wanted to create a bootable Mint Live 18.2 as backup. Something, cannot say what, a tehcnical mishap, went wrong, ended up with the stick non-formattable (since it was turned bootable), but the ISO file was not correctly written on it apparently (I later find on testing), sinc eI could not proceed with it from here on (making it unbootable and formattable under linux was beyond my knowledge and by Google search results apparently was more difficult to do under Linux than under windows), I started my Windows 7 tower PC (dual boot) to do that there, I know how to do it under Windows. The Mint Notebook was shut down regularly.

When later wanting to reboot the notebook, it failed, as described.

The Mint 17.2 stick and DVD that I used for testing, are old copies that I created over a year ago and had stored away. All other media are newly made in the past two days, via W7 on tower PC.

P.S. Can a live system be started in safe mode, and then trying some options for Kernels, graphics drivers, or somethign like that? If so, I would need help there, too, its beyond my knowledge, but somebody mentioned these things.

Are there any mandatory settings for the UEFI? I just have manually switched off fast boot, safe boot, legacy boot (CSM) enabled , just to be sure. Should not be necessary from Mint 18 on, but as I said: just to be sure.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 08-15-17 at 05:53 AM.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 07:06 AM   #8
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

From worse to worst:

in a bid to be sure about the BIOS, I mean UEFI, and the settings, I did what i have done in BIOS on my PCs of the past 20 years occasionally to start from scratch: I send the settings all to factory default.

On PC/BIOS, this did just this.

On this damn UEFI thing, it has cleaned all harddrive devices form the booting list except one (before, it listed 4), and now boots right into UEFI every time I switch on the device. I can save and exit, and then it boots - into UEFI.

I have no clue how to add back the existing drives into the list. I never had this mess in BIOS.

In the Boot menu, I have these menu items:

Boot Conmfiguration:
Fast Boot - Enabled
Launch CSM - Disabled

Boot Option Priorities
Boot Option#1 : ubuntu (P0: Micron_M600_MTFDDAV256MBF

> Add New Boot Option
> Delete Boot Option


Add New Boot Option gives me this:

Add Boot Option (no entry there)
Path For Boot Option (PCI(17/0)\DevicePath(Type 3, SubType 12)HD(Part1),Sig8801e355-67b7-45c7-8021-d6c37fa1893c)
Boot Option File Path (greyed out)
Create (Please set Boot Option Name and File Path)

And now? Where is all the hardware gone? One SSD, one HD, one disk drive?

Things were much easier under BIOS, such a mess I never have had there.

Same with Windows 98, XP, 7.

This thing was expensive. I am completely frustrated and clueless now, and now I cannot even get a Live Medium to load - entering a medium and booting the machine, boots into the UEFI.

Why could Microsoft not just have done a solid successor to Windows 7.

Scheiße.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 08:04 AM   #9
Moonlight
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fookhall Copse
Posts: 2,108
Downloads: 184
Uploads: 0


Default

When I was looking into this Cinnamon OS to use on my second PC I came across these 2 useful pieces of information regarding UEFI, they were from some Linux user group who as far as I could tell were a very knowledgeable forum in the Linux world, use the information I received from it or not, its up to you.

Fast Boot function in BIOS?
Before you setup the Fast Boot function in the BIOS, please check the Partition Style of the primary hard drive. The Fast Boot function can only work when the partition style is GPT.

UEFI Secure Boot - should it be used or not?
Do not use UEFI Secure Boot, when they created the UEFI BIOS we were informed that it was solely for the sake of our security, in reality that is complete hogwash, it was created to make it harder to install Linux or any other OS apart from a Microsoft Windows one onto a new PC.
__________________
Moonlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 08:09 AM   #10
Rockin Robbins
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 8,899
Downloads: 135
Uploads: 52


Default

This all sounds hardware related to me. If it were not others on your forums would have had the same problems and you would already have found the solution. They are frustrated and mad because their experience base doesn't include your hardware.

I think this is a situation for the computer manufacturer to work on. After all, if your machine is malfunctioning it's under warranty. If it's not malfunctioning they have to clean up their act not to have many customers as upset as you are about not being able to install late versions of Ubuntu based operating systems--the most popular Linux distributions there are!
Rockin Robbins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 09:33 AM   #11
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Thats the thing. I just do not believe the hardware. UEFI or Linux installation settings may have misconfigured data about the hardware configuration, but I still think the hardware has no hardware damage.

Whenever I asked the people in the forum in the past two years about problems I had, one of the first replieswhen they had no answer was "Its your hardware broken", and later on I managed to pull myself out of the swamp or had others pulling me out of the swamp, I got along again - obviously the hardware worked very well, but what those guys could not stand was that something was not easy, breezy, self-explanatory, perfect in Linux land - the mistake could not be with Linux, so it must be the hardware. I have become very sceptical about that claim. The hardware looks like being good one to me. The UEFI, maybe, first time I dealt with it today, and BOOOM. Something underlying with Linux on root level. Or part of the booting stuff got moved around or went amiss during that broken stick operaiton whcih seems to have started this nightmare.

I had the machine off for half an hour, and then desperately tried again. The UEFI still lists no drive options, but I tried again the 17.2 nevertheless. And it started. I did a base installation to SSD, automatically, no manual partitioning, and just have booted the thing first time since this mess began without a boot medium. The old installation is gone, I hope, it should be.

Now I test the retuning of options (forgot it all in the past 1.5 years since I last did it), and see how to mount drives again (forgot that as well), and see whether I can partition things like I want (home on HD, the rest on SSD).

Finally things saw some improvement. Whether I could install 18 now, remains to be seen.

Don'T ask me what happens here and why. I have no clue, I just hope the trend of the last hour continues.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 09:43 AM   #12
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Somebody knowing this UEFI stuff?

Wanting to boot via stick with 18.2 on it, it instead all launched in the fresh 17.2 installation. Rebooting again and hitting F2 to enter UEFI, I then navigated to Path for boot option and there get a window:

"Select a file to boot
<.disk>
<boot>
<casper>
<dists>
<EFI>
<isolinux>
<pool>
<preseed>

Which one? What are these?

The HD is still amiss so far, btw, only the SSD with the bi89nstallationj of 17.2 is obviously there.

Its beyond me in how far this UEFI should be an improvement over BIOS. BIOS recognised changed or new drives all by itself.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 09:48 AM   #13
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Dear God, hitting any of those options result in more and more incidices, filenames and file poaths popping up.

What Microsoft retard dared to figure this oen out and imposing it on the industry, saying it is an "improvement"? Ĺast tiem I did #### like this was on an XT or AT, many years before Windows even got born.

The UEFI setup obviously is completely messed up. I now need help to clear up the UEFI.

Factory default settings...? None. Defaulting only kills everything, it seems. No hardware recognition at all. Must this all be entered manually...?
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 10:56 AM   #14
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,342
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Game over.

In the past half an hour it has all come together. I had to note that the nVidia drivers could not be chnaged, leaving me with software rendering. I managed to shoot down what had remained of the UEFI, it seems, so that I cannot use the disk drive and the USB ports anymore. The UEFI can be entered, but nothign what I knew about BIOS helps me there to get things back on track. Running a Linux Mint update to get from 17.2 to 17.3, ended in a reboot at the end of the inmstallation - but booting into a Linux fallback procedure, or so they called it: in other words, the Linux installation does not work anymore, too. Wowh, Linux, UEFI, and this box have brought me down - I give up. Three days and two nights is enough.

The strange thing is - I still have the strong feelign that the hardware is okay. Its UEFI and Linux who did the bad, and worstened it.

I am now so much pissed that I think it is not even worth it for me to call for the warranty, I just want to get rid of it, so I will probably declare it as broken and sell it as such as fast as possible. I currently use my dual boot tower PC, and I stick with this one now as long as it lives. After that, another dual boot tower PC again. If any PC at all.

The alternative is - a cheap Chromebook, if that exists. Privacy can be forgotten of course, you are a naked star on the traffic crossroad with this thing, but security holes they use to close faster than anyone else. Then having all private files (texts, photos) only on USB sticks or external drives, not on the machine, handling them only offline and separated from the web, and online not doing anything of personal/privacy relevance, so that it does not matter how much they snoop into the machine to learn about the user. Maybe I then can even print photos again without needing to port them on a stick from Linux to Windows before getting acceptable results.

The most unwelcomed conclusion: I am left behind by the changes in computer technology, I do not understand enough of it anymore, and my old knowledge plays no role any longer. I just do not know this new stuff any more, and I find it extremely difficult to get into it, once you need to face a level below the shiny surface. And I start to wonder whether it really is worth it anyway. I read three books on Linux over the past 18 months - and it helped me nothing.

A tech crisis like this one I have never experienced in my Windows years, I must admit.

End of lament.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-17, 11:16 AM   #15
Rockin Robbins
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 8,899
Downloads: 135
Uploads: 52


Default

Regardless of the exact nature of the problem the computer manufacturer is most likely to be able to help you.
Rockin Robbins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.