[REL] Realistic Sinking Physics - Page 11

WernerSobe · 07-16-07, 03:27 PM

tnx guys. Glad to see that people like it

CaptainCox · 07-16-07, 03:31 PM

Ignore previous comment, DL works, my bad. Cheers for a great mod!

peterloo · 07-17-07, 09:08 AM

Great job

Download the mod in the process...

cpt_idaho · 07-17-07, 10:01 AM

This is an absolutely awesome mod... IMHO it changes the whole experience into much more realistic and..well..just fun. I sank my first two merchants I encountered just after installing this mod and 1.3 patch with a deck gun, and it was totally great to see their crews leaving on the lifeboats, while the ships remained on the water sinking very slowly for a few hours afterwards...

And another nice touch: a medium - sized merchant I hit with a torpedo, destroying its engine (?).. so it just floated there with the crew onboard. Then I tried to destroy one of the escorts that kept circling around and was trying to find my - alas, I misfired, but both torpedoes hit the poor merchant. About 5-6 hours later, when the DD's finally left I had to finish it off with another torp. Really tough bastard, that one!

Once again WernerSobe, thanks for an awesome mod!

Xelif · 07-17-07, 11:27 AM

This looks like an incredible mod, solving one of the biggest reality flaws I had with the game!

However, File Front is reporting an error right now when I try and download your file :rotfl:

I'll keep trying, it might just be a problem with the site.

(edit) It works, about a half hour later. Someone else mentioned a similar temporary problem earlier on the thread - must be file front

WernerSobe · 07-17-07, 12:04 PM

hm check your firewall settings. Just tested download works.

Grey_Raven75 · 07-17-07, 10:44 PM

Just installed this and loaded up a mission to find out how well it works. I was surprised and annoyed because I mananged to blow two ships in half, but neither actually sank. Well, actually, one did, but it took 2 1/2 hours for it to go down. The waterline on the other never even went below the water. Now, I'm all for longer and more realistic sinking times, but this is a little crazy.

CaptainKobuk · 07-17-07, 11:46 PM

feedback...

MOD istalled.

Shot a Mitsuki Destroyer 4 times straight into it's bow as it was chasing me. No effect that i could see with MK14 torpedoes. While in stock mode a couple bow hits exactly like that will usually at least slow it down or show some visible damage.

Shot a huge transport. 18,000 tomn ship. 4 hits to it's stern. Sank ass first then soon the crew abandoned ship. But the ship stayed afloat with the bow straight up. 1/4 of the ship out of the water.

Some of this is more realistic than stock, in terms of compartmentalization ratrher than "hitpoints". But the Destroyers should not be able to take 4 bow hits and show no sign of damage.

Give and take i guess. It's a waste of torpedoes anyways to shoot Destroyers in the bow straight on. When one good side shot sinks or cripples them good enough to outrun them or cause them to evade.

I'll keep the MOD intalled.

WernerSobe · 07-18-07, 04:50 AM

use spread angle.

4 torpedoes in one spot is a waste. Remember there is no more hitpoints damage. So hitting same compartment again and again wont speed up the sinking. You must hit different compartments to get more water in.

So basicly 2 torpedoes, one at bow one aft will cause more flooding then 6 torpedoes at same spot. So try to hit different parts of the ship. Use torpedoe spread angle.

Regarding destroyers. From my testings 19 of 20 sank by one hit. You must have been very unlucky or your torpedoes were flawed. Basicly the rule is when there is no visual damage then there is also no flooding. But that is something not touched by the mod. The torpedoes before 43 tend to explode to early. I mean not the prematures but the general problem with influence detonators. They seem to charge to early, only few yards. Thats enough to consume some hitpoints and kill a ship by that, but thats "sometimes" not enough to make a hole and provide flooding.

kv29 · 07-18-07, 05:18 AM

again....
the problem with half ships remain, and those that finally sink, do it the other way (both halves start sinking bow and stern, never by the broken part).

Also some ships remain floating with only a bit of their decks above waterline.... both things are not good.

what can we do to solve all this?

Farinhir · 07-18-07, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpt_idaho

And another nice touch: a medium - sized merchant I hit with a torpedo, destroying its engine (?).. so it just floated there with the crew onboard. Then I tried to destroy one of the escorts that kept circling around and was trying to find my - alas, I misfired, but both torpedoes hit the poor merchant. About 5-6 hours later, when the DD's finally left I had to finish it off with another torp. Really tough bastard, that one!

I did something like this tonight. I spashed a torp into a large composite merch's prop and it was dead in the water. I took another shot when I got to a better angle to put a hole in the side. I only hurt 1 compartment I think because the ship was able to remain floating just fine for many more ingame hours. During that time I was playing hide and seek with the fubuki class destroyer that wanted me. I knew this because I could see it's searchlight on the surface of the water and hear the pinging off my hull. I am not sure if he knew where I was because I placed myself suicidally close to the crippled merch and about 150' below it while I waited for the destroyer to leave. Well, he decided to stop dead in the water with an nice little 180 bearing for me to work with. I rose to about 80' and shot a torp that way without a range check or anything (he was not moving so why worry about it). Well, the torp hit and he hit the gas and ran like a bat out of hell. I surfaced and finished the merch with a few deck gun shots then went after the destroyer. Instead of the destroyer I caught up to the rest of the convoy 1st and decided that I could take out the next big target and catch the destroyer later. Well, sometime while I was setting up for my attack (but after I had hit my target once) I see a nice message about an enemy boat being destroyed. I sat there eyeballing my target wondering if it was dead already. Nope. I see the nose of a destroyer bobbing in the water like a bottle in the distance.

Long story short, I love this mod.

By the way, I have hit the keel of one ship so far and it sunk as it should have. I will have to try for that more though and get back to you on it.

Later, and thanks for the great mod Werner.
~F~

switch.dota · 07-18-07, 06:26 AM

I really like the idea of sinking ships by flooding, but splitting a ship in half and not being credited for destroying it is slightly annoying. I'm wondering if it would be best to actually try and balance HP sinking and flooding sinking - with a heavy emphasis on the latter. I mean it should be possible to sink a ship through sheer damage, no?

Farinhir · 07-18-07, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch.dota

I really like the idea of sinking ships by flooding, but splitting a ship in half and not being credited for destroying it is slightly annoying. I'm wondering if it would be best to actually try and balance HP sinking and flooding sinking - with a heavy emphasis on the latter. I mean it should be possible to sink a ship through sheer damage, no?

When I was able to hit the keel I was credited for the kill. I think it is when a critical amount of the ship is underwater and the crew abandons it that you get credit. When you split a ship I think you get the credit immediately.

~F~

Xelif · 07-18-07, 11:01 AM

I love this mod!

Been testing it out and have seen some fun things already - a large cargo ship took 2 torpedo hits and numerous deck gun hits, I got the unit destroyed message, but the cargo ship 'looked' alright. Crew abandoned ship and I waited around, curious. It took over 3 hours for the ship to settle into the water, a slow process that felt much more realistic than the instant-sink of normal SH4. I had evenly spaced the damage all along her water line and it was quite satisfying to watch the cargo ship simply slip beneath the waves while upright, without tipping to one side, breaking in half, having massive explosions, or other unrealistic interpretations of her damage. She just flooded from all damaged sides and compartments evenly

This was, by the way, the LONGEST ship sink time I observed in my first patrol.

About firing at destroyers: I've done the same thing using the mod, and I watched the explosion on external camera - the torpedo exploded just before it contacted the hull and didn't seem to do any real hull damage. Just a huge splash with no sinking destroyer. I remember this was an actual problem with the contact/influence detonators during WWII, and, I think, the default game itself sometimes shows this behavior. The second torpedo hit and set the DD on fire, with a few deck gun shells holing the other compartments enough to sink.

Werner: It seems pretty easy to sink things with the deck gun - I just sprinkle shells all along the water line. Part of it is the high default rate of fire, but I'm still sinking ships using 1 torpedo and about 20 shells, or no torpedoes and about 40. Maybe look into reducing the flooding each deck gun hit can cause?

On my first patrol I've been impressed with the ship sinking times. Very rarely does a ship plummet to the bottom within 10 seconds of being 'killed'. Also, I've seen some remarkably damaged ships still struggling along, just as would happen in real life. Sometimes a large ship can take a lot of bow damage, have a lot of flooding, maybe even be shipping water over the bow, but she won't sink as she is still is displacing enough water from the non-damaged compartments and still has engine power, etc

Very refreshing!

WernerSobe · 07-18-07, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelif

I love this mod!
Werner: It seems pretty easy to sink things with the deck gun - I just sprinkle shells all along the water line. Part of it is the high default rate of fire, but I'm still sinking ships using 1 torpedo and about 20 shells, or no torpedoes and about 40. Maybe look into reducing the flooding each deck gun hit can cause?

Yes this is due to unrealistic deckgun.

It fires way to fast and way to accurate. The real deckgun on Us subs were only firing a round every 20-30 seconds. And it was not gyro stabilized so placing a hit below the water line was a gamble. If you take this aspects into account, and say you can sink a ship with 40 shells. Lets say you miss 10 so you need 50 rounds. 50 rounds 30 seconds each is about 25 minutes.

Thats beeing better but still far from real things. Making the holes from deckguns smaller would cause less flooding and you would need more shells of course. But i didnt wanted to change anything to the deckgun files because so many use their own deckgun mod of their liking and i didnt want to have compability problems.

I highly recomend however using realism deckgun mods with that mod.

07-16-07, 03:31 PM	#152
CaptainCox Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: A Swede in Frankfurt am Main Posts: 1,897 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Ignore previous comment, DL works, my bad. Cheers for a great mod! __________________ DOWNLOAD MY MODS HERE

07-17-07, 09:08 AM	#153
peterloo Commander Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 462 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Great job Download the mod in the process... __________________ Romeo is here, but where is Juliet? The 中国水兵 (Chinese Sailor) in subsim

07-17-07, 11:27 AM	#155
Xelif Seaman Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This looks like an incredible mod, solving one of the biggest reality flaws I had with the game! However, File Front is reporting an error right now when I try and download your file :rotfl: I'll keep trying, it might just be a problem with the site. (edit) It works, about a half hour later. Someone else mentioned a similar temporary problem earlier on the thread - must be file front Last edited by Xelif; 07-17-07 at 12:08 PM.

07-17-07, 10:44 PM	#157
Grey_Raven75 Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Just installed this and loaded up a mission to find out how well it works. I was surprised and annoyed because I mananged to blow two ships in half, but neither actually sank. Well, actually, one did, but it took 2 1/2 hours for it to go down. The waterline on the other never even went below the water. Now, I'm all for longer and more realistic sinking times, but this is a little crazy. __________________ "If you don't know history, you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree." --Edward Johnston

07-16-07, 03:27 PM	#151
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	tnx guys. Glad to see that people like it

07-17-07, 10:01 AM	#154
cpt_idaho Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This is an absolutely awesome mod... IMHO it changes the whole experience into much more realistic and..well..just fun. I sank my first two merchants I encountered just after installing this mod and 1.3 patch with a deck gun, and it was totally great to see their crews leaving on the lifeboats, while the ships remained on the water sinking very slowly for a few hours afterwards... And another nice touch: a medium - sized merchant I hit with a torpedo, destroying its engine (?).. so it just floated there with the crew onboard. Then I tried to destroy one of the escorts that kept circling around and was trying to find my - alas, I misfired, but both torpedoes hit the poor merchant. About 5-6 hours later, when the DD's finally left I had to finish it off with another torp. Really tough bastard, that one! Once again WernerSobe, thanks for an awesome mod!

07-17-07, 12:04 PM	#156
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	hm check your firewall settings. Just tested download works.

07-17-07, 11:46 PM	#158
CaptainKobuk Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 107 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	feedback... MOD istalled. Shot a Mitsuki Destroyer 4 times straight into it's bow as it was chasing me. No effect that i could see with MK14 torpedoes. While in stock mode a couple bow hits exactly like that will usually at least slow it down or show some visible damage. Shot a huge transport. 18,000 tomn ship. 4 hits to it's stern. Sank ass first then soon the crew abandoned ship. But the ship stayed afloat with the bow straight up. 1/4 of the ship out of the water. Some of this is more realistic than stock, in terms of compartmentalization ratrher than "hitpoints". But the Destroyers should not be able to take 4 bow hits and show no sign of damage. Give and take i guess. It's a waste of torpedoes anyways to shoot Destroyers in the bow straight on. When one good side shot sinks or cripples them good enough to outrun them or cause them to evade. I'll keep the MOD intalled.

07-18-07, 04:50 AM	#159
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	use spread angle. 4 torpedoes in one spot is a waste. Remember there is no more hitpoints damage. So hitting same compartment again and again wont speed up the sinking. You must hit different compartments to get more water in. So basicly 2 torpedoes, one at bow one aft will cause more flooding then 6 torpedoes at same spot. So try to hit different parts of the ship. Use torpedoe spread angle. Regarding destroyers. From my testings 19 of 20 sank by one hit. You must have been very unlucky or your torpedoes were flawed. Basicly the rule is when there is no visual damage then there is also no flooding. But that is something not touched by the mod. The torpedoes before 43 tend to explode to early. I mean not the prematures but the general problem with influence detonators. They seem to charge to early, only few yards. Thats enough to consume some hitpoints and kill a ship by that, but thats "sometimes" not enough to make a hole and provide flooding.

07-18-07, 05:18 AM	#160
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	again.... the problem with half ships remain, and those that finally sink, do it the other way (both halves start sinking bow and stern, never by the broken part). Also some ships remain floating with only a bit of their decks above waterline.... both things are not good. what can we do to solve all this?

07-18-07, 06:26 AM	#162
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I really like the idea of sinking ships by flooding, but splitting a ship in half and not being credited for destroying it is slightly annoying. I'm wondering if it would be best to actually try and balance HP sinking and flooding sinking - with a heavy emphasis on the latter. I mean it should be possible to sink a ship through sheer damage, no?

07-18-07, 11:01 AM	#164
Xelif Seaman Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I love this mod! Been testing it out and have seen some fun things already - a large cargo ship took 2 torpedo hits and numerous deck gun hits, I got the unit destroyed message, but the cargo ship 'looked' alright. Crew abandoned ship and I waited around, curious. It took over 3 hours for the ship to settle into the water, a slow process that felt much more realistic than the instant-sink of normal SH4. I had evenly spaced the damage all along her water line and it was quite satisfying to watch the cargo ship simply slip beneath the waves while upright, without tipping to one side, breaking in half, having massive explosions, or other unrealistic interpretations of her damage. She just flooded from all damaged sides and compartments evenly This was, by the way, the LONGEST ship sink time I observed in my first patrol. About firing at destroyers: I've done the same thing using the mod, and I watched the explosion on external camera - the torpedo exploded just before it contacted the hull and didn't seem to do any real hull damage. Just a huge splash with no sinking destroyer. I remember this was an actual problem with the contact/influence detonators during WWII, and, I think, the default game itself sometimes shows this behavior. The second torpedo hit and set the DD on fire, with a few deck gun shells holing the other compartments enough to sink. Werner: It seems pretty easy to sink things with the deck gun - I just sprinkle shells all along the water line. Part of it is the high default rate of fire, but I'm still sinking ships using 1 torpedo and about 20 shells, or no torpedoes and about 40. Maybe look into reducing the flooding each deck gun hit can cause? On my first patrol I've been impressed with the ship sinking times. Very rarely does a ship plummet to the bottom within 10 seconds of being 'killed'. Also, I've seen some remarkably damaged ships still struggling along, just as would happen in real life. Sometimes a large ship can take a lot of bow damage, have a lot of flooding, maybe even be shipping water over the bow, but she won't sink as she is still is displacing enough water from the non-damaged compartments and still has engine power, etc Very refreshing!