Paris on fire - Page 7

Jimbuna · 12-09-18, 07:05 AM

Quote:

French Prime Minister Édouard Philippe has vowed to "restore national unity" after violence broke out during a fourth consecutive weekend of protests.

Police used tear gas and rubber bullets on Saturday - the latest day of "yellow vest" demonstrations against fuel tax rises and high living costs.

More than 1,700 people were arrested, but the violence was not on the same level as a week earlier.

Discussions with peaceful protesters "must continue", Mr Philippe said.

He added: "No tax should jeopardise our national unity. We must now rebuild that national unity through dialogue, through work, and by coming together."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46496854

This will undoubtedly need a lot of thought and planning.

Skybird · 12-09-18, 08:29 AM

Manfred Haferburg is a German writer living in France, in Paris. This his text is some of the best evaluation and assessment of the events and their reasons I have read about the Paris riots so far. My and Google'S translation (why is it that Google translator's quality is varying so tremendously on a daily basis? Sometimes it works phantastic, sometimes every second sentence is utter drivel):

:

What is driving the French in their yellow safety vests on the road? The policy of the Macron government has deeply disappointed the French. Reforms, yes, but they must make sense. The life concept of many middle-class families is in danger of tipping over. Families with several children are the norm in France. They can not afford the b y German standards horrendous rents in the center and have evaded into the still expensive suburbs. They are just making ends meet. For a house on credit, it is accepted to take twice daily a one-hour drive to work. A Diesel ma yhave been bought with a clear conscience, which was cheaper in consumption and should pollute the environment less with CO2 - that'S how the elites sounded a few years ago. Thus, 70 percent of cars today are Diesel and older than eight years.

Then came the zero interest rate policy and with it the creeping inflation that nibbles ever-increasing holes into the wallets of families. The Diesel is suddenly out and the fuel gets more and more expensive. Even today, a liter on the toll highway costs two euros. And the highly acclaimed Diesel was declared an environmental pest by the same people who had recommended it five years ago without any sense of guilt.

Then Macron got elected to prevent Le Pen. Strategic voting never pays off for voters. Because with Macron came many green and even more left-wing ideas. Macron and his colleagues want to solve problems that nobody has. Macron wants to solve them with the money that the little people do not have. Therefore the road called to the elite: "You speak of the end of the world, but we speak of the end of the month".

Macron "announced" to introduce more eco-taxes. He wants to make electricity and fuel more expensive. He wants to shut down well-functioning power plants and set up wind turbines everywhere. For the French wind turbines are ugly monsters, which they can not stand in their beautiful landscapes. And anyway - why? France is in eighth place in Europe in terms of achieving CO2 targets, while Germany, far behind, ranks number 24. This is due to nuclear energy, which Macron reduces without meaning and without understanding, but does not want to abolish. It is difficult for a Frenchman to interpret a meaning in this.

The lower middle class in France no longer knows how to claim their modest standard of living or where the school fees should come from. The year of preparation for one of the most important elite universities costs significantly more than 10,000 euros for a high school graduate. And of course the children should be allowed to study - all three. Macron has not understood that he has attacked the French families of his performers directly with his policy. He does not understand because he has no money worries - his wife comes from the French money aristocracy with a thick Swiss account. Macron has no children and thus no idea of the living reality of its taxpayers.

In the past three weeks, Macron has made another gigantic mistake. For two weeks he kept quiet about the demands of the citizens, then arrogantly ignored them and even made fun of them in the end. He mockingly said, "We solve the problems of the end of the month and the end of the world."

While Macron flourished with his green ambitions at the Buenos Aires summit last weekend in front of his G20 politician colleagues, the hut burned in Paris. The casseurs had mixed with the demonstrators and caused great damage, even disgraced national symbols. And now, after the orgy of violence, the government began to turn it down. However, cacophon: On Tuesday: tax increases suspended for three months, one day later for six months and then postponed for another year. Thus, the last Frenchman recognized that the government has set a signal with their response AFTER the violence: In order to make oneself heard, the citizens' protest needs violence. Ultimately, the Macron government finally legitimized the Casseurs. This is not just my view, as has been said several times on French television.

A disturbing experience I had today in the rue Courcelles, about two kilometers away from the demo focus Etoile. A group of marauding North Africans from the banlieues roamed the streets and demolished bus stops and cars, leaving mirrors and slicing disks. When they tried to knock down a smart, the car owner cursed them from a safe distance from his balcony. A few Gilets Jaunes wanted to stand in their way and shouted, "Gilet's jaunts do not do that." They were instantly attacked by the rioters with kicks and punches and were able to flee like that. I realized that without police protection ordinary citizens have little power to counter violent criminals. The ceiling of our civilization is too thin, and violence has been trained out of us.

The law enforcement officers this weekend were completely different than last Saturday. There were officially 8,000 demonstrators and 9,500 police and gendarmerie in Paris today. One must know that the gendarmerie is an army unit. The gendarmes were equipped with armored vehicles. There were also mounted squadrons in use; Riders are very effective, the rioters fled in bright panic in front of the horses. The action of the CRS forces was much more offensive today than it has been in recent weeks. Spacious, sensitive areas were closed off. Flickering skirmishes were stifled by rapid advance in the bud, the fire brigade was able to quickly extinguish things set under fire under police protection. There were over 1,000 arrests and several hundred arrests. Thirty people were injured. All in all, it was a lot more peaceful this Saturday than last week.

On the Champs-Elysées, protesters and police were standing opposite each other again, peacefully and conversing at the shortest distance. There was even flirting violently. Both sides have great sympathy for each other. The Gilets Jaunes, because the police protects them from the rioters and the police, because the protesters also represent their concerns. A police union has already joined the movement. Likewise pupils and students as well as the farmers. The government is in a dilemma. The demonstrators want "Macron should resign". The police want to categorically suppress any further riot.

Should it succeed that the demonstrations peacefully continue to grow, it becomes very uncomfortable for the remote French established and their unworldly projects. The credibility of Macron's government is gone, he has been recognized for what he is - a handsome Blender. Then maybe it really will soon be called "Macron Demission".

.

Macronman lost his cape, cant fly anymore. I saw him as a reality-disconnected, clueless blender from all beginning on, nothing but high flying megalomania on his mind. Thats why I always mocked on him.

You do not stumble over mountains, but over tiny stones only.

Rockstar · 12-09-18, 10:12 AM

He's a banker, and he appears to be very good at being one too. However as a banker he is more interested in numbers than people. I sure in his eyes the spreadsheet was perfect.

Skybird · 12-09-18, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He's a banker, and he appears to be very good at being one too. However as a banker he is more interested in numbers than people. I sure in his eyes the spreadsheet was perfect.

A banker? Nonsens. He is a nuclear physicist, worked in Greifswald nuclear powerplant, was GDR citizen and was moved onto the black list of the SED regime when refusing to join the SED or to work for the Stasi. He later was violently kicked out of the GDR and was deprived of his GDR citizenship. He wrote several books, amongst them "Staatsversagen".

Skybird · 12-09-18, 11:44 AM

Oh. It appears I assumed you meant Haferburg.

Macronman'S fault is not that he may have been a good banker who knew his numbers. Knowing the numbers, knowing that stuff costs and that nothing is for free, is essential. His mistake was that he assumed his living conditions were representative, and so he took them as granted for everbody, assumed that everybody can afford the drastic changes he wants since himself he would not feel them much. And so he became quite disconnected from material realities of life on the everyday ground. See his European ambitions as well: mostly, they go not so much to the costs of France, who indeed would benefit, but at the costs of Germany: again he talks loud and glorious about spending other people's money.

He has that in common with Marx, who also talked a lot about money - while he wa smostly free from needing to care for his living, but was held out by others. So are amyn socialist and career potlicians, who know they have made the system such that their payments and privilieges are and get protected and that they can eyxlcude themselves form the consequences their super-smart masterminding for society create.

The French political elite is very elitist indeed and very disconnected from reality, much more than in most other Western countries. This is owed to the strong centralisation of power and administration in France throughout history. Monopolization leads to centralization, centralization leads to elitism.

Compared to the obedient and submissive Germans, the French are also quite militant and eager toi strike. I diod not expct this whole thing to last this long and grow this strong. Maybe I should, at least could have expected it, but I was surprised while standing on the wrong foot, like many others.

Rockstar · 12-09-18, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh. It appears I assumed you meant Haferburg.

it appears so.

Rockstar · 12-09-18, 02:15 PM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...vests-protests

Quote:

“You can’t make speeches about defending the international order when your popularity is at 20 percent and there are protesters in the street,” said Nicholas Dungan, a Paris-based senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. “It’s very difficult to get your credibility back.”
It’s a stark contrast to the weekend of Nov. 11 as leaders marked a century since the end of World War I. Macron championed the need for global cooperation while Trump cut an isolated figure. Europe’s divisions were laid bare that day as Polish government officials marched through Warsaw with far-right groups to mark the country’s Independence Day. Macron, though, stood firm as Europe’s statesman.
The images televised around the world last weekend were of burning cars in the French capital. The retreat by the 40-year-old French leader was mocked by Trump. Macron admitted, via his prime minister, that he’s not been able to connect with the French people. “No tax merits putting our nation’s unity in danger,” Edouard Philippe said in a televised address.

Ya think?

Especially when that tax is imposed to persuade someone to 'exchange' a tangible item for something which doesn't exist.

Rockstar · 12-12-18, 09:47 AM

https://www.france24.com/en/20181211...arket-shooting

Live: Strasbourg shooting suspect 'has been convicted 27 times', says Paris Prosecutor

At least two people were killed and 14 injured in a shooting at a Christmas market in central Strasbourg, France, on Tuesday, police and officials said, adding that the suspected gunman has a criminal record and is on the run.

Two were killed and 14 injured in the shooting in central Strasbourg, according to the French interior ministry.
The gunman, who has been named at the moment as 'Cherif C', was intercepted by security forces twice with exchanges of fire, but remains at large. The Paris Prosecutor has said that the suspect has been convicted 27 times in France, Germany and Switzerland.
France has increased its terror alert level and will send extra security forces to Strasbourg as well as increase security at borders and Christmas markets.
The shooting started near Place Kléber and advanced toward the Grand'Rue, one of the city's main shopping streets, said FRANCE 24's Catherine Bennett reporting from Strasbourg.
Several areas went into lockdown with members of the public taking shelter inside bars and restaurants.
The European parliament, which was holding its plenary session before the winter holidays, also went on lockdown, with MEPs told to stay inside.

Rockstar · 12-12-18, 10:44 AM

https://www.france24.com/en/20181211...-france-crumbs

‘All smoke and mirrors’: Yellow Vest protesters reject 'crumbs' offered by Macron

I got a kick out of this comment. So typical of governments where their answer lies in someone else's money.

Quote:

In a plea that was widely mocked as wishful thinking, he asked profit-making businesses to grant workers year-end bonuses, adding that they would be tax-free

“president of the rich”.

12-09-18, 08:29 AM	#92
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,456 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Manfred Haferburg is a German writer living in France, in Paris. This his text is some of the best evaluation and assessment of the events and their reasons I have read about the Paris riots so far. My and Google'S translation (why is it that Google translator's quality is varying so tremendously on a daily basis? Sometimes it works phantastic, sometimes every second sentence is utter drivel): : What is driving the French in their yellow safety vests on the road? The policy of the Macron government has deeply disappointed the French. Reforms, yes, but they must make sense. The life concept of many middle-class families is in danger of tipping over. Families with several children are the norm in France. They can not afford the b y German standards horrendous rents in the center and have evaded into the still expensive suburbs. They are just making ends meet. For a house on credit, it is accepted to take twice daily a one-hour drive to work. A Diesel ma yhave been bought with a clear conscience, which was cheaper in consumption and should pollute the environment less with CO2 - that'S how the elites sounded a few years ago. Thus, 70 percent of cars today are Diesel and older than eight years. Then came the zero interest rate policy and with it the creeping inflation that nibbles ever-increasing holes into the wallets of families. The Diesel is suddenly out and the fuel gets more and more expensive. Even today, a liter on the toll highway costs two euros. And the highly acclaimed Diesel was declared an environmental pest by the same people who had recommended it five years ago without any sense of guilt. Then Macron got elected to prevent Le Pen. Strategic voting never pays off for voters. Because with Macron came many green and even more left-wing ideas. Macron and his colleagues want to solve problems that nobody has. Macron wants to solve them with the money that the little people do not have. Therefore the road called to the elite: "You speak of the end of the world, but we speak of the end of the month". Macron "announced" to introduce more eco-taxes. He wants to make electricity and fuel more expensive. He wants to shut down well-functioning power plants and set up wind turbines everywhere. For the French wind turbines are ugly monsters, which they can not stand in their beautiful landscapes. And anyway - why? France is in eighth place in Europe in terms of achieving CO2 targets, while Germany, far behind, ranks number 24. This is due to nuclear energy, which Macron reduces without meaning and without understanding, but does not want to abolish. It is difficult for a Frenchman to interpret a meaning in this. The lower middle class in France no longer knows how to claim their modest standard of living or where the school fees should come from. The year of preparation for one of the most important elite universities costs significantly more than 10,000 euros for a high school graduate. And of course the children should be allowed to study - all three. Macron has not understood that he has attacked the French families of his performers directly with his policy. He does not understand because he has no money worries - his wife comes from the French money aristocracy with a thick Swiss account. Macron has no children and thus no idea of the living reality of its taxpayers. In the past three weeks, Macron has made another gigantic mistake. For two weeks he kept quiet about the demands of the citizens, then arrogantly ignored them and even made fun of them in the end. He mockingly said, "We solve the problems of the end of the month and the end of the world." While Macron flourished with his green ambitions at the Buenos Aires summit last weekend in front of his G20 politician colleagues, the hut burned in Paris. The casseurs had mixed with the demonstrators and caused great damage, even disgraced national symbols. And now, after the orgy of violence, the government began to turn it down. However, cacophon: On Tuesday: tax increases suspended for three months, one day later for six months and then postponed for another year. Thus, the last Frenchman recognized that the government has set a signal with their response AFTER the violence: In order to make oneself heard, the citizens' protest needs violence. Ultimately, the Macron government finally legitimized the Casseurs. This is not just my view, as has been said several times on French television. A disturbing experience I had today in the rue Courcelles, about two kilometers away from the demo focus Etoile. A group of marauding North Africans from the banlieues roamed the streets and demolished bus stops and cars, leaving mirrors and slicing disks. When they tried to knock down a smart, the car owner cursed them from a safe distance from his balcony. A few Gilets Jaunes wanted to stand in their way and shouted, "Gilet's jaunts do not do that." They were instantly attacked by the rioters with kicks and punches and were able to flee like that. I realized that without police protection ordinary citizens have little power to counter violent criminals. The ceiling of our civilization is too thin, and violence has been trained out of us. The law enforcement officers this weekend were completely different than last Saturday. There were officially 8,000 demonstrators and 9,500 police and gendarmerie in Paris today. One must know that the gendarmerie is an army unit. The gendarmes were equipped with armored vehicles. There were also mounted squadrons in use; Riders are very effective, the rioters fled in bright panic in front of the horses. The action of the CRS forces was much more offensive today than it has been in recent weeks. Spacious, sensitive areas were closed off. Flickering skirmishes were stifled by rapid advance in the bud, the fire brigade was able to quickly extinguish things set under fire under police protection. There were over 1,000 arrests and several hundred arrests. Thirty people were injured. All in all, it was a lot more peaceful this Saturday than last week. On the Champs-Elysées, protesters and police were standing opposite each other again, peacefully and conversing at the shortest distance. There was even flirting violently. Both sides have great sympathy for each other. The Gilets Jaunes, because the police protects them from the rioters and the police, because the protesters also represent their concerns. A police union has already joined the movement. Likewise pupils and students as well as the farmers. The government is in a dilemma. The demonstrators want "Macron should resign". The police want to categorically suppress any further riot. Should it succeed that the demonstrations peacefully continue to grow, it becomes very uncomfortable for the remote French established and their unworldly projects. The credibility of Macron's government is gone, he has been recognized for what he is - a handsome Blender. Then maybe it really will soon be called "Macron Demission". . Macronman lost his cape, cant fly anymore. I saw him as a reality-disconnected, clueless blender from all beginning on, nothing but high flying megalomania on his mind. Thats why I always mocked on him. You do not stumble over mountains, but over tiny stones only. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-09-18 at 08:40 AM.

12-09-18, 10:12 AM	#93
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,811 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	He's a banker, and he appears to be very good at being one too. However as a banker he is more interested in numbers than people. I sure in his eyes the spreadsheet was perfect. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

12-09-18, 11:44 AM	#95
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,456 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Oh. It appears I assumed you meant Haferburg. Macronman'S fault is not that he may have been a good banker who knew his numbers. Knowing the numbers, knowing that stuff costs and that nothing is for free, is essential. His mistake was that he assumed his living conditions were representative, and so he took them as granted for everbody, assumed that everybody can afford the drastic changes he wants since himself he would not feel them much. And so he became quite disconnected from material realities of life on the everyday ground. See his European ambitions as well: mostly, they go not so much to the costs of France, who indeed would benefit, but at the costs of Germany: again he talks loud and glorious about spending other people's money. He has that in common with Marx, who also talked a lot about money - while he wa smostly free from needing to care for his living, but was held out by others. So are amyn socialist and career potlicians, who know they have made the system such that their payments and privilieges are and get protected and that they can eyxlcude themselves form the consequences their super-smart masterminding for society create. The French political elite is very elitist indeed and very disconnected from reality, much more than in most other Western countries. This is owed to the strong centralisation of power and administration in France throughout history. Monopolization leads to centralization, centralization leads to elitism. Compared to the obedient and submissive Germans, the French are also quite militant and eager toi strike. I diod not expct this whole thing to last this long and grow this strong. Maybe I should, at least could have expected it, but I was surprised while standing on the wrong foot, like many others. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-09-18 at 12:03 PM.

12-12-18, 09:47 AM	#98
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,811 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	https://www.france24.com/en/20181211...arket-shooting Live: Strasbourg shooting suspect 'has been convicted 27 times', says Paris Prosecutor At least two people were killed and 14 injured in a shooting at a Christmas market in central Strasbourg, France, on Tuesday, police and officials said, adding that the suspected gunman has a criminal record and is on the run. Two were killed and 14 injured in the shooting in central Strasbourg, according to the French interior ministry. The gunman, who has been named at the moment as 'Cherif C', was intercepted by security forces twice with exchanges of fire, but remains at large. The Paris Prosecutor has said that the suspect has been convicted 27 times in France, Germany and Switzerland. France has increased its terror alert level and will send extra security forces to Strasbourg as well as increase security at borders and Christmas markets. The shooting started near Place Kléber and advanced toward the Grand'Rue, one of the city's main shopping streets, said FRANCE 24's Catherine Bennett reporting from Strasbourg. Several areas went into lockdown with members of the public taking shelter inside bars and restaurants. The European parliament, which was holding its plenary session before the winter holidays, also went on lockdown, with MEPs told to stay inside. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

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