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Old 11-19-2018, 11:43 AM   #1
Front Runner
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Default Base Time 2018

Base Time is as drifty as a Seaman Recruit on their first day at Great Lakes Naval Training Center!
Many of us have difficulty in making our Base Time adjustments from Zone to Zone when traveling east-west. Sometimes, the Sun or Moon Rise/Set times are so out of whack with our observations, even when making careful adjustments to our Base Time, that we just give up on it all. The following may explain why and what is happening.

I've made many observations while remaining in the Brisbane Base Time Zone. My subs Base Time clock indicates what the local time is in the Brisbane Time Zone, 10 hours east of Zulu time. For my observations I did not transit east-west, outside the Brisbane Zone. I transited only from Brisbane north to the Bismarck Sea. I used the US Navy Sun or Moon Rise/Set Table for One Year as my Almanac times. (1944)

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php

I'm releasing my findings and observations about 1x play and how it affects the synchronization of the celestial sphere when using 2018 computer hardware.
It takes a long time to make observations at 1x, but I have nearly completed a series of observations which reveal some interesting side effects which absolutely affects gameplay, even when using typical time compression. After all, we have to go to 1x when making or avoiding attacks, sometimes for hours at a time. Typically though, players will constantly use a combination of 1x and time compression during these times.

Simply put....
When playing at 1x to 1024x time compression, the game is REMARKABLY accurate when rendering sunset and sunrise! (Compared to Almanac times.) A bit less accurate when rendering moonset and moonrise. However, when playing ONLY at 1x, a cumulative error occurs which offsets the synchronization of the celestial sphere so that the sunrise, sunset, moonset, moonrise times are out of sync with the Base Time clock, even when not traveling outside (east-west) of the Base Time zone.

OK, now here is the interesting part. The error seems to be directly related to the Vertical Sync setting in the Graphics Options. When Vertical Sync is selected on, there is a cumulative and noticeable error of the offset of sunrise, sunset, etc. (when played at 1x speed. I'm observing 60 fps with Vertical Sync clicked on.)
When Vertical Sync is un-selected, (I'm averaging 240 fps), the error offset is very much greater (when played at 1x speed). The difference is in many hours over a period of a few days.
That is why I posted my original message in the FOTRSU thread inquiring why my sunset, sunrise was off by many, many hours even though I was still in my Base Time meridian range. It was dark, but should have been daylight.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=6716

I'm arriving at the conclusion that with our modern computing hardware running balls out fps, a celestial sphere synchronization error is introduced (and cumulative) that affects the timing of certain events and may answer questions about strange behaviors. When it is visually midnight, but the Base Time clock says it should be daylight, you may think you are making a night attack, but, from the enemy's perspective, it is broad daylight and they can actually see you. (Even aircraft.)

I have repeated my series of tests and my observations are repeatable.

Try this, select Vertical Sync on (requires game restart), start at Brisbane, Jan. 3, 1944, outside the harbor. Steam (15 knots) directly to the 154 deg. 0 min meridian at 1x and thence directly north on the meridian until sunset (remain at 1x the entire transit). You start at about 1300 hours and sunset will occur approximately at the predicted almanac time of 1840 at 154 deg. 0 min E, 26 deg. 0 min. S.

I've observed sunset at 1824 (middle of sunset) 1827 (upper limb set). So, slightly early. (The next morning sunrise is 30 min. late, and the following sunset is 37 min. late at 1x (15 knots, proceeding north along the meridian.))

Now do the same thing, only with Vertical Sync off (requires game restart). I'm observing sunset on 01/03/44 at the same lat. long. quite a bit later (37 minutes) at 1904 (upper limb set). This is after only about 5 hours of 1x play! After 24 hours at 1x play the error becomes significantly greater!

Now do the same thing, Vertical Sync on (requires game restart), using typical time compression (1x-1024x) and you will see that the sunset occurs within a few minutes of the predicted Almanac time. After several cycles of testing this observation, day after day, sunrise and sunset, as I proceed to my Patrol Area (Bismarck Sea), I have to offer kudos to the Original SH4 devs. Essentially, they got this right! Sunset, sunrise, moonset and moonrise are within minutes of the Almanac predictions for each different lat. long.

When I play at 1x to 1024x with Vertical Sync on, the sunset/sunrise times are remarkably accurate, sometimes exactly at almanac predicted times! I've made these observations over a period of days from Jan. 3, 1944 to Jan. 10, 1944. I have yet to run a test with Vertical Sync off and 1x to 1024x play for comparison.

So, my conclusion, so far, is that it is best to play with Vertical Sync on, which minimizes the celestial sphere synchronization error when the game is played using 1x to 1024x (I have not tested anything more than 1024x because I saw no difference between 512x and 1024x observations. I'm assuming there is very little difference when using time compression above 1024x.) The error is very apparent when the game is played only at 1x speed. The error is greater when Vertical Sync is off.

This may explain why, after a long patrol, in and out of 1x play, we see such great discrepancies from what time we observe it should be, to what time the Base Time clock aboard our boat indicates it is, especially when playing with Vertical Sync selected off.


I have a few more observations to make and then I will post my results in a somewhat orderly sequence.



I am making four discrete observational tests.
(1) Playing at 1x with Vertical Sync on making observations at 1/3/44 Sunset, 1/4/44 Moonset, 1/4/44 Sunrise and 1/4/44 Sunset.


(2) Playing at 1x with Vertical Sync off making the same observations as in (1) above.


(3) Playing at 1x-1024x with Vertical Sync on making the same observations as in (1) above.


(4)Playing at 1x-1024x with Vertical Sync off making the same observations as in (1) above.


I would appreciate any others who wish to duplicate this series of tests in order to see if my observations can be duplicated.

Thanks!
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:58 PM   #2
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Just for kicks, through a Game Save in there... When you restore from the save, you may or may not be on "local" time still. This effect is more pronounced when traveling East / West, instead of North / South. You start on base time, but after a save, we assumed you were on local time. Now you make me wonder
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Old 11-20-2018, 07:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
Just for kicks, through a Game Save in there... When you restore from the save, you may or may not be on "local" time still. This effect is more pronounced when traveling East / West, instead of North / South. You start on base time, but after a save, we assumed you were on local time. Now you make me wonder
I save my test points frequently and I haven’t noticed any difference in Base Time when going from a test play-through that has been running for over 24 hours, then reloading that play-through.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:41 AM   #4
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I do know that you can get "different" results when traveling East / West across the "time zones" and Saving the game. Thanks for that Front Runner - and you also passed the "typo test" with "Through" thrown in there for "Throw"... sorry 'bout that... It makes one wonder how the computer's clock and maybe multi-cores affects the game's "time" routines.

Edit: Now, I know this is easier to accomplish on a Win 8 or 10 machine, but on my Win7-64, you have to jump through hoops to run the Window Program Compatibility applet. You can get to it easiest from a "Search" on "Program Compatibility" or by right-clicking on the SH4.exe file, and choosing "Troubleshoot compatibility" about the middle of the top section of the context menu. Or you can go the long way and choose Properties, then the Compatibility tab, then the "Help me choose the settings" link, which brings up a dialog that then won't find SH4.exe, so you then have to "Browse" and choose it. Windows will then come up with a "solution" with settings for "Windows XP (Service Pack 2)". Since I've got multiple installs of Fall of the Rising Sun on my computer, I'll try and let my sub run North all night, beginning tonight, and see what I get with a WinXP SP2 setting on my computer, and get back with you Front Runner...
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Last edited by propbeanie; 11-20-2018 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
......It makes one wonder how the computer's clock and maybe multi-cores affects the game's "time" routines.
......I'll try and let my sub run North all night, beginning tonight, and see what I get with a WinXP SP2 setting on my computer, and get back with you Front Runner...
Sounds good. I’m trying the same thing. I had not thought of “compatibility mode” for WinXP SP2.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:21 PM   #6
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Some how or other, I forgot about my surgery tomorrow morning, so it would be Friday evening before I try that... It's a bear gettin' old...

DiectX v9 has been around since 2002, and Silent Hunter III since 2005. SH4 has a lot of 3 in it, and I wonder about the differences in the DirectX versions that over-write the game's v9...
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
Some how or other, I forgot about my surgery tomorrow morning, so it would be Friday evening before I try that... It's a bear gettin' old...

DiectX v9 has been around since 2002, and Silent Hunter III since 2005. SH4 has a lot of 3 in it, and I wonder about the differences in the DirectX versions that over-write the game's v9...
Good points. OK. I think we may be tilting at windmills. I'm intrigued though.
By the way, I am using the time that the upper limb of the sun, or moon, is on the horizon as my sunset/moonset, Base Time. The object is completely gone over the horizon.

So, here is what I am currently going to try. I have downloaded and installed the DX9 2010 Runtimes from Microsoft.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down...s.aspx?id=8109

This is a two step process. First download the file to any folder you wish and then run the installer (as administrator). Some say that this is unnecessary as Windows 10 (probably other older versions of Windows, after XP) install all variations of Direct X for backward compatibility. None the less, I installed it. You can probably check by searching for "d3d9.dll". I use the App "EVERYTHING" as my computer file search engine.

https://www.voidtools.com/downloads/

Next step is to create a shortcut to desktop from the executable you are using to start SH4 (in my case I renamed SH4.exe to FOTRSUv71.exe)
Right click on the shortcut and in the target field add "-force-d3d9" (without the quotes) For example my installation is on Drive D in the Subsims subfolder, so mine reads
"D:\Subsims\SH4FOTRSU\FOTRSUv71.exe -force-d3d9"

Run SH4 from the shortcut. I don't know how you can tell if it works or not but I believe the research I did to get there. (see EDIT 1) Follow the instructions for GOG on the following link.

[EDIT 1] Yes, I have found the way to check to see what version of DirectX that SH4 is currently using. Download Process Explorer from Microsoft. I put it in my Utilities folder. Run it as administrator. In the "View" tab, select "Show Lower Pane" and then "Lower Pane Views", select "DLLs". I can verify that my FOTRSUv71.exe is using d3d9.dll.

[EDIT 2] This track appears to be a red herring. Even with compatibility settings off, SH4 will (automatically?) use the d3d9.dll. I found this out by removing compatibility settings, running the game directly from the executable, (no shortcut) and checking Process Explorer.
I'm still proceeding with my 1x test, as described, just in case I'm missing something. #TiltingAtWindmills

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...ocess-explorer

https://inxile.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/...ctX-9-Windows-

Test the game to make sure it still works. In my current test I am going with 1x play with Vertical Sync on to see if there is a difference in my previous test points, 01/03/1944 Sunset (1840 Almanac time, 1827 Base Time) and the 01/04/1944 Moonset (0016 Almanac time, 0029 Base Time).
I am also using the WinXP SP2 compatibility mode and running as Administrator and forcing DX9.

In addition, I have found the extension for the nVidia control panel, "nVidia Inspector", which allows you to create a profile using your SH4.exe and then limiting the frame rate to whatever you choose.

I'm not sure if this will actually have any effect on SH4 at all, even with frame rate limited. I tested it to make sure it actually limits the frame rate, it does, but I have yet to do a 1x test with it activated in order to observe whether or not it has any effect at all.

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details...-download.html

I'm going to try the 1x with Vertical Sync on plus the XP SP2 compatibility and forcing DX9 before I introduce frame rate limiting.

[EDIT 3] I ran the test (1x, VS on, XP SP2 compatibility, forced DX9, admin) and got a slightly different result. Hmmm. Gained 2 to 3 minutes of accuracy in favor of the Almanac time. Base time on earlier runs for the 1/3/1944 sunset were consistently 1827. On this run, Base time indicated 1/3/1944 sunset 1830. Almanac sunset is 1840. I'll need to run this test again to be sure.

I'm trying frame rate limiting next to either rule it out or verify the error is directly related to fps.


[EDIT 4] OK. I ran the test (1x, VS on, XP SP2 compatibility, forced DX9, admin and frame rate limited to ~54-55 fps. There is definitely a difference in my arrival at the 1/3/44 sunset point (154 deg. 0 min. east, 25 deg. 52 min S) Base time for sunset (upper limb setting below horizon) was 1847 which is 7 minutes later than the Almanac prediction (1840). My first test runs had sunset occurring consistently at 1827, 13 minutes early with VS on and 60 fps. My next test run with XP SP2 compat. and forced DX9 was 1830, ten minutes early. It looks like fps definitely has an effect on the celestial sphere synchronization issue. Wow, I was not expecting that because the frame rate limiter is external to the game. This is now beyond my pay grade. I don't understand the timing issues in game from way back in 2007 when SH4 was being developed. All I can do now is tweak my nVidia Inspector settings until I've minimized the sync issue. Time to just PLAY THE GAME which, BTW, is still great after all these years! FOTRSU makes it even greater! My solution may vary widely with your solution if you even dare take this long road to perdition.

Simply put, set VS on and play at 1x to 2048x time compression and ignore the errors.

I've got coffee!!! And, the next few days off.

Oh, one thing that gets me through the 1x play is listening to Fred's Radio Stations, I have many, while interacting with the game. I love vintage radio.

Propbeanie, Good luck with your surgery. Getting old is, well, challenging. I just turned 70 myself. Egad!
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Last edited by Front Runner; 11-22-2018 at 09:21 AM.
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