NSM 4.0 incompatible with newest version of RSRD?

[yyzBegonia]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

To test this, set torpedoes to run on the surface and torpedo the same ship. I'd love to see what happens.

I tried it, however torpedoes can't be set to run 'right' on the surface apparently. I set it into the shallowest running depth, about 1 meter (perhaps about 3 ft? I'm not sure because I'm using metric) and fire. Once again, they penetrated through the hull.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by yyzBegonia

I tried it, however torpedoes can't be set to run 'right' on the surface apparently. I set it into the shallowest running depth, about 1 meter (perhaps about 3 ft? I'm not sure because I'm using metric) and fire. Once again, they penetrated through the hull.

That's really interesting. Guess I'll have to check it out myself and see if I can figure something out.

No collision either means that the torpedo's mathematical position isn't there or the mathematical position of the hull isn't there, so although the eye candy renders the objects where we expect the actual "bookkeeping" of the program is cooked so there is no collision. No collision, no explosion.

So the formula is:
TMO
RSRD v502
RSRD patch
NSM 4.0


This ought to be fun!

Okay, I'm looking at the download page of NSM 4.0 and there is Webster saying:


When Webster says something like that it's probably time to take a step back and survey the lay of the land. So I look inside NSM. First, I see that he's messed with the deck gun and torpedo settings. Delete the Library subdirectory in NSM and they're gone. Now let's check the mod and see if there's any improvement.

[propbeanie]

I was just over in the RSRDC investigating stuff for FotRS Ultimate, and the way they used NSM 3.3 back then was to load it first, then do TMO & RSRDC. I don't know if changing the order would help, or if it'd trash other things...

[Rockin Robbins]

Not being one to heed warnings, I bravely (?) forged forward! Loaded up TMO and patch only. Fire up the mission: boom! boom! boom! boom!

Well, I expected that, now how about with TMO and RSRDC plus RSRDC patch. Boom! boom! etc.

Load up NSM on top of the combo and torpedoes pass through the hull. Which is good. If you really want to have fun surface and man the deck gun. You'll only have HE shells to choose from for some reason. Pop Mogami in the superstructure and the whole computer freezes up. I had to hit the reset button and reboot!

What's happening was discovered by the FOTRS Ultimate team when we started playing with Mission Editor files. Now each scenario in the game, including the torpedo training mission is made with the Mission Editor.

We discovered that the Mission Editor makes missions based on whatever mods are installed into SH4 at the time the missions are made! Suppose you make a mission with a ship in it. You've been playing RSRDC or FOTRSU and are unknowingly using a ship that only appears in that mod, not the stock game when you make the mission. You have no idea that the Mission Editor, an entirely different program than SH4.exe would do such a thing.

But if you load up the mission you created in a stock game, the game will look for a ship which doesn't exist. CRASH! In this case the ship exists, but changes have been made in it that the mission can't accept. just as soon as a shell hits the superstructure the game freezes. And since the ship doesn't exist, torpedoes pass right through it. And they should pass through a ship that doesn't exist.

The Torpedo Training mission within SH4 is not compatible with TMO/RSRDC/NSM because of incompatible changes NSM makes with the ship files. I still don't know if that is also true of the simple TMO/NSM combination. It probably is not because TMO wouldn't have changed the zones of the stock Mogami.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I was just over in the RSRDC investigating stuff for FotRS Ultimate, and the way they used NSM 3.3 back then was to load it first, then do TMO & RSRDC. I don't know if changing the order would help, or if it'd trash other things...

WernerSobe in NSM 4.0 documentation says always load NSM last.

[propbeanie]

Well, that kills that then...

[Rockin Robbins]

I found another clue! Hyperbolicsphere uses TMO/RSRDC/NSM and found that there are two RSRDC ships that don't play well with NSM. They are Mogami and Okinoshima. He says:

I run 1.5 + TMO 2.5 + RSRDC. NSM4 works well with TMO 2.5, but I've never been able to get all three to work together. It's tantalizingly close. The only conflicts between NSM4 and RSRDC are NCA_Mogami.zon and Okinoshima.sim. The obvious solutions haven't worked (substituting or removing files or folders), and the typical error is that torpedoes pass through their targets and continue to run out the other side. I've had some success by enabling mods in the order TMO 2.5, NSM4, RSRDC, RSRDC patch, but this is unpredictable, and the natural sinking effect is lost. I get a fast-kill, slow-sink effect, which is playable, but unsatisfying.

I have never attempted to mod this game, myself. I feel like this should be an easy fix, if only I knew how

So it's not as bad as we might have feared. Hyperbolicsphere confirms that NSM works well with SH4 v1.5, in spite of WernerSobe's warning. I'll have to try NSM with FOTRSU and see if any of our ships are similarly affected. By the way, the soul of FOTRSU was transplanted verbatim from a v 1.4 mod! I would guess that redefined stock warships would be the only candidates. I don't have a clue what could turn the collision detector off.

Prime candidates for figuring out the solution to the problem, and it is likely to be simple, would be Lurker_hlb himself, if he were around, CapnScurvy and Jeff-Groves. Iambecomelife might be your best candidate as he builds ships from scratch, but he's busily creating something greater than a supermod. It's going to have to be somebody as interested as I am but a better modder in that area of the game.