Is Germany's Navy Dead?

[Onkel Neal]

Is Germany's Navy Dead?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...avy-dead-26566

Press reports state the problem is “lack of spares,” and that “Germany can no longer afford to stock spares for these expensive submarines.” Really? It boggles the mind that the wealthiest country in the EU cannot even afford to support a U Boat fleet of six vessels. These vessels are designed for the Baltic and due to their hydrogen fuel-cell propulsion system can stay underwater for as long as two weeks. While this sounds rather benign, operations in the Baltic are difficult due to shallow water, and even more difficult since their peacetime mission requirements involve dangerous stealthy operations to gain intelligence on Russian ports. The Type 212 U Boats are the optimal submarines for these missions, so it is a particular pity that they sit in dry dock waiting for spares that should be readily available. Today, other countries’ submarines take up this slack and perform this mission since Germany spends too little on its military to fund an adequate support infrastructure for these vessels. One shudders to think how long it would take Germany to up the readiness of its tiny U Boat fleet should the Russians become more aggressive against the NATO Baltic countries.

[Catfish]

Good article, but this is old news, and it is not only about the german navy. We were already joking in october, 2017, that there was no navy, and a common joke was "what has the german Luftwaffe of today in common with that of may 5th, 1945: Four combat-ready jet fighters!"

This all comes at a time where there is a lot of change everywhere, in the german army. The transition to smart weapons and special equipment has taken more time than planned, another example being the sub-par engine gearboxes for the Airbus 400m that has stalled an, in every other respect, brilliant transport aircraft. My guess is that the description of its planned flight envelope is too demanding, it really is an aircraft at current technology's edge. This is pioneering work, maybe they should have looked at the C17's problems back then to get a glimpse what awaits them.

But it is true, industry seems to be incapable to provide enough of the stuff in time, and since this one is an international project, a nation alone cannot easily sue a company of another nation.. This is currently being sorted out and companies will be made responsible and liable by all the countries involved.

Regarding the U-boats this is a new technology, and a real store for spare parts does not exist yet. There is also a planned change from lead to Lithium batteries. They try to implement as much as possible, when the boats are being maintained anyway.

But the US can be happy, if we are too dumb to build transporters, helicopters and fighters we may as well buy them from you.
I would not, but i have no say in this

[Jimbuna]

It's quite worrying actually and despite Trumps recent remarks (which I tended to agree with) there doesn't appear to be much sign of any improvement which means NATO would be harder pressed than previously to resist a Russian military incursion (doubtful that would happen imho).

Germany's current priority is to rule the EU in industrial terms so good luck to her with that.

Unfortunately, this is true...
In recent decades, enormous cost cuts have been made everywhere in Germany, deliberately driving society into an impossible situation.

If this continues - there will be revolution... then heads like Anno 1789 roll again.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Bleiente

[...] In recent decades, enormous cost cuts have been made everywhere in Germany, deliberately driving society into an impossible situation.!:

Not really: German military spending since 2001:

https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...n-deutschland/

I laugh myself dead - the Bundeswehr could not have withstood the NVA even one day.

[XenonSurf]

Germany perhaps has now only paper planes and paper ships, except for those metal ships that patrol against Pirates in Somalia, but isn't it so that the country still exports a good number of submarines to other countries? Last one to Israel if I'm well informed...


The technology is still there, don't dismiss the old warmonger...
And to increase the country's military budget, what about buying an old CVN from Uncle Donald...

[Skybird]

Indeed cannibalising units to keep other units afloat is a standard in the navy these days. Guttenberg found some new formula to hide it, calling it I think alternative (or advanced) resource management (I call it "Mängelverwaltung"). That sounds wwell and tells nobody what really is being done.


The Uboats of the German navy since months and months have not been out to sea. One reason is they got new lithium batteries (lithium batteries in a submarine - well...), the other reason is that they indeed cannot be repaired due to lacking money and spare parts.

Originally Posted by Bleiente

I laugh myself dead - the Bundeswehr could not have withstood the NVA even one day.

That is indeed what I have read once by a Eastergerman former NVA colonel who after the Wende (=reunificaiton) visited former Bundeswehr station and the army itself. He was shocked by the lack of preparation and the low discipline (he was about the tone in general). This was not the militant major threat that the SED tell them it were. I remember that Martin van Crefeld wrote the same about some NVA officer that he knew. Maybe its even the same.


The defenc budget in germany traditionally gets obscured by manipulating its numbers with varying contributions and substractions. The numbers Catfish gives must be taken with a grain of salt, therefore. It will be even worse from now on, since now major shares of the budget for foreign aid and development aid get counted - by SPD pressure - as part of the military budget, to make it look bigger. Former foreign clown, i mean minster Gabriel said that developing other countries was a militarily relevant contribution to collective defence of the west. Serious, no joke, he said that and he meant it. And nobody objected.



The german military is an impotent paper tiger, plain and simple. A corps of for self-defence armed development aid workers. The self-understanding of the ordinary soldier seems to lack basic key features needed for a warrior, eh, I mean: Bürgerin und Bürger in Uniform.



Too tame. And a bureaucratic mionster now also plagued by gender politics and PC language.

[em2nought]

When Islam is eventually in control of all of Western Europe we'll be thankful they haven't acquired working hardware.

[Reece]

. . . and on a positive note. . .