Anyone working on Atlantic Mod for 1.5?

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Yes I personally know someone is working on SH4UBM but although the Atlantik will be recreated in different and superior manner to SH3, he is not reinventing the wheel and the Atlantik will only be a prelude to the misery to follow.

That is really what you seek in a slavish recreation of Sh3, something already done, right? Truly creative people are never happy merely copying the mistakes of the past. SH3 will not live again in SH4 clothing.

Just know that people with better imaginations and abilities than us are working on something you don't know you want yet. Think "google"

In 95% of cases what you just said is bull****. Only in some exceptional cases you are right. The term "reinventing the wheel" does not exist for nothing, and everyone who worked on software projects knows what I mean.

[CaptainHaplo]

Look - it drives me nuts to see this continually thrown out here - and by a number of folks I respect from my SH3 days. As much as some people are going to hate it - accept the fact that SH3 is not and could not stay the "Premier" submarine simulation for all eternity. Instead of all this "Atlantic" vs "Pacific" nonsense, lets realize that everyone has a "theatre of operations" they like over the other. Just because some may like the Atlantic more, doesn't mean that SH4 is not a superior "game" in technical aspects. SH3 will NOT be "ported" to SH4 - simply because SH3 data, while a FOUNDATION for things in SH4 - is not really compatible with the extra thing that the sh4 engine added.

Ultimately, SH3 (and the GWX 2 mod data) will ultimately help shape the way any SH4 Atlantik mod is done - and that is a credit to both the devs and modders of SH3. And who is to say that Ubi won't decide to develop SH5 (or another SH4 expansion) in the Atlantic. After all - with SH3 - thats how we learned there would be an SH4.

This back and forth on "porting" sh3 into sh4 seems more like a turf war between people than it does about the greatness of both SH3 and SH4. They both aim to simulate WW2 submarine warfare, and they both due an admirable job of it within the technical limitations each has. Can they be improved - of course. Especially SH4, since it has not had the "maturation" time that SH3 has.

Yes, Sh4 is an evolutionary product of SH3 - and a new atlantic campaign via mod or expansion would be an evolutionary product of SH4 - but that doesnt mean that such a campaign would be SH3 in SH4 clothing. SH3 got a lot of things right, but it also had alot of room for improvement. If it didn't, why was GWX created? Anyone who has played GWX vs stock will tell you that its almost 2 seperate games! The same applies for SH3 and SH4 - and thus a SH4 Atlantic mod/expansion will be the same - a different game. In fact, playing the UBM is a different game than it is when playing fleetboats. *Again, if it wasn't, why make it?*

Ultimately, alot of folks are working on an "Atlantic" mod - even if they don't know it. Everything from adding bases, tweaking sensors, ships, and everything else modders can do will contribute to such a mod. It may not be fully defined as a project yet, then again, it might. RR indicates it is and I have no reason to doubt him.

But let's stop the SH3 to SH4 conversion talk - it won't work. Nor would GWX port. And there is no reason to have to ***** out words, take a deep breath and lets not get too sensative - we are all among friends. Its ok to disagree, but be decent about eh, old chap?

[Mikhayl]

I don't think that's such a big deal, the word "conversion" is quite wide.
SH3 and SH4 are different but the Atlantic was is still the same, when people talk about conversion it's (IMO) about porting the truly great and torough work of a few people on the SH3 campaign into the SH4 layers, with as much additions as the new engine permits.
It's not really about "porting SH3" but really about porting as much as the atlantic as possible for those (like me a bit) addicted to that theatre.
Peace

[bigboywooly]

Porting SH3 to SH4 doesnt mean transplanting it lock stock and barrel in SH4
Noone said it was to be that way
Tis ppls perceptions

From my GWX POV it means porting the GWX ideals\features and innovations
Sure, things will not be exactly the same and in most cases new
Who wouldnt want to make the most of the game engine ?

Yes work has already begun in a couple of places as RR said and no doubt more will spring up
From my own limited delve into the campaign side of things there are more opportunities than SH3 could have given us and most people will take advantage of that

Having said all that SH3 remains top of my playlist - newer game engine or not
Has a certain feel to it that SH4 doesnt replace
Even with being able to start in the Atlantic ports

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

In 95% of cases what you just said is bull****. Only in some exceptional cases you are right. The term "reinventing the wheel" does not exist for nothing, and everyone who worked on software projects knows what I mean.

Watch and learn. Wonderful things are happening.

[JScones]

Frankly, I don't care who develops such as mod as long as it's historical, immersive and enjoyable...and doesn't come with a truckload of baggage.

I think only the very literal or imaginative will take terms like "conversion" or "porting" to mean "cut and paste" or "SH3 is better than SH4 and we will turn SH4 into SH3 and make you all suffer".

But who cares? Won't any conversion of SH3, or for that matter GWX, WAC, NYGM, LSH3 etc be just another option for players to try? Sure, if the dev teams converted verbatim with only the edges filed to make it fit, I'd be disappointed. But that just means that I, and anyone else who feels that way, would try one of the other mods and then settle on the one we like best. Certainly a mod that takes advantage of SH4, is fresh and utilises SH4 to its maximum potential would appeal to me more than a flat transfer, which TBH I'd just see as lazy.

But somehow, at least as far as GWX is concerned, I don't think the modders would just do this - just look at the occasional posts on this forum from GWX developers that show that they're investigating the SH4 structure behind the scenes. BUT, history hasn't changed since SH3 was released, so why wouldn't they use what they've already researched as a basis? And why wouldn't they use their SH3 modding experience? I know I certainly would. Just because it was applied to SH3 does not make it irrelevant.

At the end of the day players will determine how popular any "conversion", or perceived "conversion" from SH3 is. So I don't understand why people here, ironically SH4 loyalists, get so protective about it. I'm aware of at least three "teams" doing Atlantic work for SH4 and a few individuals working on components that will undoubtably connect up to something larger at some point. In the end, I'll choose the mod I like best, regardless of who created it. Viva la choice.

[Skyhawk]

For the record, the only reason I wrote my reply the way I did was to hopefully prompt some straightforward answers. Which I did, so in that regard "mission accomplished".

Definitely WAS NOT my intention to stir up any of that Atlantic/Pacific "whatever you want to call it" b.s.

I knew the answer to the question before I replied. Just thought it might have more meaning if some of those who had previously responded came back and answered the original question in a more straightforward way.

So, to all those who are submersing themselves in their bathtub and holding their breath while the SH3 to SH4 graphics engine conversion is released, time to surface! It's not going to happen!

And also for the record:

If I want to play a simulation of commanding a Uboat in the Atlantic, I play SH3 w/GWX.

If I want to play a simulation of commanding a Fleetboat in the Pacific, I play SH4 w/TMO.

The two things above are enough for me. I appreciate both of them for what they are and for the work that went into creating them.

Fantasy, "what if" scenarios, or over glorified mods of minor aspects of WWII submarine warfare, well I leave those to others. They are not my cup of tea and it doesn't bother me in the least if there are those who enjoy them. To each their own.

Whatever sim/mods you choose to use, have fun. And fun isn't had by sitting on your hands waiting for something better to come along when something of quality is right in front of you waiting for you to double-click that desktop icon!

As you were . . .

Back to silent running . . .

[FloydRoses]

In shortly......
nobody can't build sh3 mod for sh4.....false
nobody does not WANT build sh3 mod for sh4....its TRUE!

Sorry for my English.

[Rockin Robbins]

Shows that the acrimony comes from Skyhawk and Global explorer, not the SH4 "loyalists." Having some ties both to SH4 and SH3 modders, let me lay it out in neutral terms:

1. Anyone who thinks the GWX team is just going to build the evil cross-compiler that ports everything they've done over to SH4 doesn't know the GWX team. They would never contemplate that at all! They are creative people. Creative people create new things, not duplicate old things. I am not saying that they won't use what they have already learned. I'm saying they will build on the past, not copy it. Anybody have a problem with that? Too bad. The GWX team is what it is.

2. SH4 modding teams are more familiar with the toyz in the SH4 game engine, but the new stuff in SH4UBM is new to everybody. Hint: you don't see any SH4 modders posting in this thread. Could it be that they are very busy? They also are creative people. I can't see them copying any GWX work. Neither can I see the GWX team copying anybody else's work.

So regardless of the source, what we will get is new. SH3 will not be reborn in SH4. Gee! I think I said that before and somebody said that what I said was mostly bulletin. I still don't know what a bulletin has to do with anything.

Please, folks, don't mistake the blatherings of GWX and SH4 modder cheerleaders for statements from the modders themselves. They are too busy to talk. And wonderful things are happening.

[Dowly]

EDIT: Nevermind, I cant read.

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Shows that the acrimony comes from Skyhawk and Global explorer, not the SH4 "loyalists." Having some ties both to SH4 and SH3 modders, let me lay it out in neutral terms:

1. Anyone who thinks the GWX team is just going to build the evil cross-compiler that ports everything they've done over to SH4 doesn't know the GWX team. They would never contemplate that at all! They are creative people. Creative people create new things, not duplicate old things. I am not saying that they won't use what they have already learned.

Unexperienced people start things they cannot finish. I bet 90% of all mods in the works at this moment will either not be finished, obsolete when they are released, unuseable or incomplete. Because people don't listen to advice, start with the easy things, start making things that have been done better before, dont team up, etc.

We are reaching a point where it sucks to find the mods that we will play in between the ones that we will never play (think of other games modded to death such as Morrowind or the TW series). I guess you need not look further if you want to know the reason for the success of GWX - it is a finished product, not just a young mans dream.

Before you interpret more into my owrds than necessary: I was only suggesting that it might be a good idea to write a program that ports over the campaign data from GWX to SHIV (and in my weak moments I have even considered doing that myself). Why not use the quality we have from SHIII as a base and start the real work on top of it? No, of course, creative people are so awesome they know it's better to always start everything from scratch! Believe me dude, I've seen this enough in software projects, and it's one of the main reasons for lack of quality and direction in software products.

And before I get accused of acrimony again, I am looking forward to play any Atlantic mod for SHIV, no matter how it was created or by who.

[Rockin Robbins]

I just don't think the GWX team will be satisfied with that. I predict we hear very little from GWXers. When we do it will be upon release of a new product. Then we will be very surprised what we get. They would quit before they rested on their laurels.

And SH3 is not a dinosaur. It is a great game that doesn't need to be ashamed because of SH4. It's not like they're abandoning a sinking ship. Just check out the traffic on the SH3 forums and tell me if that's a dead duck!

And I think we are hearing very little from the SH4 modders for the same reason. They will let their work do the talking while we argue about it all. Then we will find all our arguments were irrelevent and we were worried about things that were never going to happen.

Isn't that the way life usually works out?

[Elder-Pirate]

If only this Lady were here maybe we could have our cake and eat it to.

[CaptainHaplo]

My post was also not meant to be inflamitory - both SH3 and SH4 are great. Straight "porting" - moving data over and running with it won't work, but as I said - the lessons learned and data uncovered in things like GWX WILL make whatever is the final product that much better! There are those that proclaim GWX the end all be all - but I can tell you its not the makers of it! Nor is SH4 - now will it ever be. As time progresses things will simply get better - and we will have all the modders from both sides of the equation - to thank for it.

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

And I think we are hearing very little from the SH4 modders for the same reason. They will let their work do the talking while we argue about it all. Then we will find all our arguments were irrelevent and we were worried about things that were never going to happen.

That would really surprise me, because it would mean SHIV modders are a special breed. Usually modders have a nasty habit of announcing their project the very day they started with it, no matter if they can finish it.

Personally I believe the silence means that SHIV modding has not really taken off yet. The old faces from SHIII are tired and returning to rl, the new ones are still playing (maybe that is the best thing, that people still enjoy the game). I do however expect that we will see great mods, as the mod friendliness of the SH engine is still there.