Click here to access the Tanksim website
SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

BUYING GAMES, BOOKS, ELECTRONICS, and STUFF
THROUGH THIS LINK SUPPORTS SUBSIM, THANKS!

The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations!

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > Tanksim.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-12, 03:42 PM   #1
Sledgehammer427
PacWagon
 
Sledgehammer427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,901
Downloads: 280
Uploads: 0
Default Your Tanksim Moderator...

Just took the next step in his tanksimming experience.
Just a few minutes ago, my order went through for the purchase of none other than...

Steel Beasts Pro PE!

SKYBIRD!!!!

Hilfe
What should I know getting in? What should I do first other than die...a lot?
__________________
Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer
Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168)
114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed
V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!
Sledgehammer427 is offline  

Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-12, 05:41 AM   #2
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Congrats. 't was about time, wasn't it?

Check the version you get, but it probably is up to date.

Check the dongle software version as well.

Both info in the stickied resources (unlock them again, please, btw, I cannot update them right now!).

Follow the advice I have given on several occasions. After examining and satisfying your initial curiosity, chose one tank, and stay with that one for a while. The Leopard-2s are easier to shoot and command with than the Abrams. The Leo-2E is the toughest bug of all the playables with 3D interior, followed by the Strv-122 (or maybe the other way around), if you want some additional protection in the beginning. Challenger-2 is even slightly stronger, but weaker gun and ammo, and no virtual interior. Learn the editor/planner interface from early on. Change scenarios so that they feature that tank you have chosen for the beginning. Do the tutorials for that tank. Start with small units first. Start with small scenarios first. Build from basement to roof - not the other way around. "Platoon Recon" is a great thing to start with, it teaches you so many lessons, is randomised, and can easily be edited in the editor, for using other tanks for example, or change light conditions. Play it repeatedly to correct your mistakes. the "Battle for Byto 1-3" series is also nice, it is not difficult, but outs you into a bigger force to give you the taste of batallion sized assault -but beware, the playable tnak for you is a Leopard-1: agile, but thin-skinned, consider to switch that to the Leo-2A4 in the very early stage of your familiarisation with SBP. Use the AAR, the after action report feature. It's here where you learn the lessons afterwards - during mission, you will often die without knowing why, at least in the beginning. Use the gunner'S auxiliary sight for manual aiming, get used to it. Get used to run firing procedures manually. Once laser and thermals, stabilisation and dynmaic lead are gone, you need to trust in your skills handling these emergency procedures. It will happen - soon enough.


Implement tactical behavior the way you would do it as a real tanker: stay low, overwatch, leave psoitions always in reverse, get mkoving within 90 seconds after you gave away your psition so that arty does not catch you, and so on.

Use the gunnery range you will find in the menu. The score you get influences the performance of your side in general. You need to hit ten moving targets. For a 100% (its definitely possible, don'T become nervous). You must lose not one shot, and must shoot within some seconds after sighting, to acchieve that score. yoi can repeat the test in an attempt to improve your score, or to practice after having had a break. When I had a break form SBP, and return, first thing I do is using the gunnery range to get back into the swing of gunning.

Compare aiming by joystick with aiming by mouse. I use both. If you use a HOTAS, give the command layout some thought, its worth it.

Newcomers tend to focus a lot on two exotic specialities: bridging, and minefield breaching. However, many people ignore that in reality the military tends tpo avoid both, if possible, since it is both very risky and time consuming. SBP is a bit tricky in having bridgelayers work autonomously, one need to spend a lot of care to find the right spot b the river, it is not easy to find them. Minefield brwsching techncially works reliably if the enmy does not interfere. I changed one of their scenarios a bit to illustrate how it idealistically works all by itself, the whole orchestra. I could send that one to you via email attachement. Its no masterpiece of a mission, I did it more as an excercise for myself in how to program that kind of stuff correctly in the edtior. The default demonstration for breaching minefields I found to mess up too often.

And in all modesty I take the freedom to refer again to my Tank Museum scenario, which gives you nice and fast overview of the looks and interiors of all included vehicles per season set.

P.S. Keep your distance from small lakes and rivers, the AI is not reliable in tracking these and tends to drown itself, espeically when setting up battle psoitions near water - keep your distance.

When crossing bridges, keep units separated, do not rush it, make clear, lienar aproaches in column, put waypoints at sufficient distances. You will see what I am about once you have had your first stokcpile of own tanks at a bridge. If you cannot fiddle it out, ask again. Bridges can be corssed by AI formations, and very reliably so, but the AI needs to be supported by - well, some competent waypoint placing. Same for passing through minefields.

The threat of artilley should always be on your mind. Plan ahead accordingly. ICM can - and often will - kill you.

Ignore air units for the beginning. They are a compromise currently.

SPA vehicles are there, but so far behave like tanks a bit, not like artillery, they are "under constuction".Consider them to be placeholders currently.

Infantry needs to get nannied a bit, too. Which can be a bit os a pain. expect to lose them by the high numbers. I personally hate to rely on infantry, and prefer armour-heavy scenarios.

Be advised that while night is there now, dark phases of the day-night-cycle are dealt a bit different with than one would expect from reality, the current handling is making an effect, but not one that is truly realistic, for realistic night vision is also under construction currently. The system currently bases on reduced frequency of detection checks at night, so it is more statistically handled than basing on realistic visual conditions. Anyhow, stay away from night engagements in the beginning. they make it very difficult - especially if you have no thermals.

The T-72M1 - must I say it? "Crew it at your own risk".

And finally: if you take fire and see that you survive it, do not feel tempted to think "Oh, they cannot hurt me" and continue sitting there like a duck asking to get roasted - if you swallow more and more shots, sooner or later there comes that one Mr. Shot that is gonna hurt you. When you take fire, it's time to break his visual! Better, do not even give him the opportunity. Expose yourself, shoot, shoot twice maybe, and get into cover again. There is no invulnerability in the SBP world. Even the Challenger, it may be hard to crack it - but it can get cracked. Due to this and the threat of artillery, do not consider static defence an option in most cases - especially not against artillery. Plan ahead in the mission plannign pohase, attach evasive routes to battle positions so that the tansk will autonomously rush out when getting caught by arty. They can be told to autonomously return, or change their positions randomly. That planner/editor interfac eis great. I love it. Easy, and flexible.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 02-25-12 at 07:16 PM.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-12, 05:52 AM   #3
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

P.S. You need to wait for the dongle for playing, but you can already download and install the sim and then have access to the pdf with the manual.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 04:22 AM   #4
frinik
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 897
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default SB

Skybird raked in another sale...

In fact I just mentioned your name this morning on the SF Graviteam.com forum.
frinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 08:46 AM   #5
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Why? I never had any business over there!?
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 12:58 PM   #6
Sledgehammer427
PacWagon
 
Sledgehammer427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,901
Downloads: 280
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for the pointers, and, apologies Sky, I don't have a constant internet connection to my pc so I usually browse the forum through my cellphone, unfortunately, some of the drop down moderator menus don't work so I will have to tether into my pc for a second to unlock the resources thread.

I'm thinking about trying to become proficient in the Leo-2s and the T-72, even if I'm crewing the latter at my own risk, if its too much I will probably move into either the Challenger or the Abrams instead.

EDIT: Thread Unlocked. Sky, if you want anything deleted out of there let me know in PM
__________________
Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer
Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168)
114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed
V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!
Sledgehammer427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 02:09 PM   #7
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

The T-72 is the most difficult vehicle to play, imo. I would avoid it in the beginning. The fire control is more according to WWII than to even the Leopard-1.

The Challenger is... well, the FCS is very - British, with a Playstation controller as gunner's grip. . Tough armour, though, but weaker gun/ammo than the L44 or L55. Note that eSim claims to have modelled that correctly according to the publicly available numbers - its just that people expected it to be a tougher gunner. But so far, with the debate on that going on and on, nobody was able to come up with data supporting that expectation.

The two crewable Abrams either have a 105mm, or the L44 but still no periscope for the TC. Gunner must manually confirm ammo loading, a step that is skipped in the Leos. GPS works slightly different with the optics shifting when adding lead - the Leos do not do that, instead confirm lead by a simple red light. Best uran SABOT for Abrams, third generation is rated with 850 mm RAH , versus 840 mm RAH for latest tungsten sabot for the Leo-2s. i think this summarises the major differences in the sim. Of course, the vehicles have different armour layouts as well, with small advantages for the Leopards. The tougher armoured Abrams A2SEP is not yet crewable.

Currently the only Russian MBT with thermals is the Czechs' upgraded T-72M4 - not the T80.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 02:11 PM   #8
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427 View Post
EDIT: Thread Unlocked. Sky, if you want anything deleted out of there let me know in PM
Maybe just separating the first posting with the essential info from the following postings with pics, dialogues, and the angry ending. So that the information resources just become again what they should have been, and once indeed were - information resources.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-12, 10:03 PM   #9
frinik
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 897
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post
Why? I never had any business over there!?
I know.It's just that we started an off topic thread about Steel Beasts as a guy was asking whether it's worth the price and 2 of us finally convinced him to buy it and I made a comment about inviting you over to make a sales pitch for SB!
frinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-12, 06:39 AM   #10
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default


.
.
.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-12, 12:11 PM   #11
Sledgehammer427
PacWagon
 
Sledgehammer427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,901
Downloads: 280
Uploads: 0
Default

so I went through some of the literature after downloading and installing and I'm blown away. I'm going to staples tonight to visit my girlfriend and print the Tacsop manual. seems like something id want on hand. makes good bedtime reading
__________________
Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer
Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168)
114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed
V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!
Sledgehammer427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-12, 07:24 PM   #12
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Last time I checked they had FM field manuals and more tactical documents in their download section. Asking in the forum also can link you to guys being in the knowledge and owning such material. I remember that several of them posted digital copies of this and that.

Edit:
http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/19
18 Army FMs, 8 Marines FMs, 39 Russian manuals. Sleep well.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 02-28-12 at 08:24 PM.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-12, 10:48 AM   #13
Sledgehammer427
PacWagon
 
Sledgehammer427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,901
Downloads: 280
Uploads: 0
Default

I got the dongle in the mail last Thursday , been playing the game every chance I got since then.
Sky, I have a gunnery score of 90, which I got in the Leo 2A5, in the T-72, which I naturally gravitated towards, I score in the mid-high 60s. working on my lead a little bit more. the Challenger and I perform well, but other than that I haven't touched the APC's really.

I have trouble with the M1A1 simply because the way the sight kicks when you lase. I can perform a lase and blaze pretty well because its difficult for me to track with that sight setup. I tend to bump and if you mix a faraway PC with a heat round and that PC is going as fast as it can, I rarely score a first shot hit.
__________________
Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer
Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168)
114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed
V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!
Sledgehammer427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-12, 12:47 PM   #14
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427 View Post
I got the dongle in the mail last Thursday , been playing the game every chance I got since then.
Sky, I have a gunnery score of 90, which I got in the Leo 2A5, in the T-72, which I naturally gravitated towards, I score in the mid-high 60s. working on my lead a little bit more. the Challenger and I perform well, but other than that I haven't touched the APC's really.

I have trouble with the M1A1 simply because the way the sight kicks when you lase. I can perform a lase and blaze pretty well because its difficult for me to track with that sight setup. I tend to bump and if you mix a faraway PC with a heat round and that PC is going as fast as it can, I rarely score a first shot hit.
Yes, the M1's sight behaves a bit weired to indicate that lead is added. I always wondered why they did it this way, it almopst provokes the gunner by reflex to move the gun to compensate although it is not necessary. It is very contra-intuitive.

If I recall correctly, the LAV also has some strangeness attached. When target is lased , the whole sight jumps upward and the crosshairs drop to the very bottom of the monitor, reducing your vision to the target significantly.

I never understood the reasoning behind these designs, both the M1 and LAV. But okay, I prefer the Leos and CVs anyway. There things are nicely straight and linear - point, lase, boom, next. That's how it should be, me thinks. Keep it simple, you egineers!
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-12, 01:39 PM   #15
Lieste
Soundman
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 142
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

You are supposed to laze-n-blaze, track the centre of mass with the stationary reticle and then lase pausing only long enough to confirm good range input and correct indexing of round and then fire. A clean lase is one without the bar over the returned range, and it must also be at a range that reasonably matches your expected combat range from map locations and apparent target size (which is something you get a feel for after a few weeks).

Once you have made the first shot you are supposed to release the palm switch, and then re-apply it to engage the next target, or to re-engage the current one.

Done like this the behaviour is really very close to the Leopard, except the sight background is offset with the gun tube, rather than fixed to the central reticle - problems with chasing the reticle are only an issue while it is floating, which should be rarely/never when scanning.

While firing keep a steady tracking rate and don't flinch - unless the target motion is changing extremely small errors in tracking rate won't hurt the shot, but large changes in rate to correct small errors in position will be problematic at all except very close ranges. The same applies to the Leopard type FCS input.

The main advantage of the M1/M1A1 method is that you have experience of the offset the FCS is actually applying to various situations - this is important to perform well with a failed stabilisation or FCS, and with the 'hidden' solutions of the Leopard or M1A2 this is a task that must be learnt/taught separately.
Lieste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.