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Old 04-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #91
BL!TZKR!EG
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Hi Pisces,

many thanks for your substantial contributions with good screenshots.

I will go into detail here now, because you have invested so much time. Appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Ok, I've downloaded the Frontend and tried to use it, but it keeps crashing during the "U-boot scan". This is the data that Windows gives and intends to send to Microsoft...
This is news to me. I have tested S3F under
- Windows XP
- Windows 7
and there were no such errors.

What system are you running?
Any software that could keep S3F from accessing the harddrive for reading access?
Could you please try to run S3F as Admin?
Does the issue persist in that case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
During the entire time the same music as in GWX3 plays, but with annoying high pitch distortion.
I have no such disortion both on win XP and 7 - please check your sound settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Pressing "scan your u-boot now" button
"[S3F] SCAN" sub-window pops op (screenshots shown below)
After a while the program crashes with above report.
Any software that could keep S3F from accessing the harddrive for reading access?
Could you please try to run S3F as Admin?
Does the issue persist in that case?

Thanks also for the screenshots. The first screendump is of course not handled (125%), but I keep a note for further versions.

What you then describe "rendered 'fuzzy'" is the already known bug as you can find it on page#1 of this thread - I am collecting all known bugs there as well as keep those which I have already found and/or fixed.

A note on Windows7+ in general. "Frequently clicking inside the window (or using mouse scrollwheel)" usually results in Windows7+ reporting that a running task does not respond. There is not much to change that occurence other than just not doing that. This is about the same as if you copy for instance 20 GB of data from one partition to the other and keep impatiently clicking on that copy-bar - then windows does the very same. This is a native Windows7+ (means Win7 and higher)-behaviour.

But thank you for keeping your eyes open!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
At 1 time in between attempts I noticed just before the crash the text color changed to yellow/orange and did mention it found my D-drive. All other times it only showed my C-drive. No idea what happened differently and I do not know how to reproduce it.
Well the code is designed to find all your FIXED harddrive partitions and go through them from C, D, E, F..... to whatever your last FIXED harddrive is.

Apparently you have something running which SOMETIMES prevents S3F from continuing from C: to the next drive, i.e. E:

There is not much that can happen differently, but I will keep a note of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
In contrast to what the history and credits file says, no .ini file was created (upto this point) in the folder where the executable was stored.
Nowhere in the history and credits file is said that the .ini is created in the same folder as the .exe resides.

Where did you read that? Maybe a misunderstanding.

Momentarily and for the beta-phase, the SH3-Front-End.ini is generated in c:\

Is any security-software on your system blocking access to that location (I would not know why and if any) ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Tips:

Do allow the disabling of the background music by the user, or easy volume slider. (Windows 7 audio mixer already provides this per-application solution) Even without the high pitch noise it annoys after a while. Fade-outs could be made a little quicker. (it seems odd that music still plays even though the windows is already shut down)
Thanks for this idea. At this point a slider is not planned and none of the alpha-testers have reported a "too loud music" or any "distorsion" at all. This is what I take by reading what you describe. Please check your sound-settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
I see no usual maximize/minimize buttons in the window header. While the program isn't completely fullscreen or even fixed maximized, shifting it out of view during the scan isn't as user friendly.
That is intentional. The program runs at fixed resolution. And as said, the dissplay-fuzzy-during-scan-bug is already on my list. You can btw see the list on page 1 of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
In regards to the History and Credits file, I too think this could have been written less as a personal attack. (but I realise that you may not be interested in what I have to say) While the frustration caused and experienced may be true (I do not know the people involved), it is better to not ventilate this in front of your users. It serves no purpose to them in relation to using the application. Most may not even know about it. No need to wake up sleeping dogs. Keep the moral high ground and do not respond in kind enflaming the dispute. The comparison between the 2 applications is probably useful, but does seem a bit technical for the regular SH3 player.
It is not a personal attack at all, it is rather a personal defense and if you have followed the posts during the last we you know what I mean. It has become pretty obvious that I did not start the flaming.

But at the same view the story behind it all must be told. This is what I have tried. And be sure, I did not wake up any sleeping dogs. If you look at this thread and what has happened in the last week you know that these dogs were constantly barking and biteing.

The comparison between all the tools around was a demand by Blueduck before Urmel ceased his activities for LSH. Even Blueduck was under the first impression that there were similarities.

To finally show that the approaches are entirely different (as are the resulting programs themselves) it appeared obviously necessary to compare them - given the fact that I have twice explained the facts before in this very thread and the described dogs did not stop barking and biteing until warnings from Jimbuna and Sailor Steve were expressed.

Pisces, I thank you for your valuable input and will take a look as soon as I know what system-environment you have running.

Thanks so far! You are welcome with this kind of contributions!

Let's fix it!

Last edited by BL!TZKR!EG; 04-21-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:29 PM   #92
BL!TZKR!EG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulebaer1979 View Post
OT: Because it´s a big difference in being impolite in forums or private messages and write something impolite in readmes or even apps.

I guess, your app needs some time to fix those crashes. Nobody wrote well about working of the app. So i kindly ask you to spend your time for the app and not for impolite writing somewhere.
Paulebaer,

thanks for this input. I will consider it.

And: Would you ask this elsewhere, too?
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:31 PM   #93
BL!TZKR!EG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulebaer1979 View Post
Easy:
I have LSH and GWX on drive C:

C:\LSH5.1 with h.sie (OLC and basic GUI) and without (but then with 4GBpatch) ---> sh3.exe exists 4 times in this folder (2 h.sie, 1 4GB and the stock).
C:\GWX3 with h.sie ---> sh3.exe exists 2 times in this folder (h.sie and stock)

I did execute your tools from D:\Downloads\... the first time and then direct from C:\ ---> all tests gave the same results.
Ah! Okay, then I understand you now:

We must then ignore your backup-files!

Please provide me with your SH3-Front-End.ini so I can see what files are part of an installation and which ones are not.

Thanks ahead! And thanks for your helpful input.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:37 PM   #94
Paulebaer1979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG View Post
We must then ignore your backup-files.
Yes. So you have to write code for ignoring any sh3.exe-files inside the folder "MODS" inside a installation. Then your tool will find the two installations with h.sie in my case.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:56 PM   #95
BL!TZKR!EG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulebaer1979 View Post
Yes. So you have to write code for ignoring any sh3.exe-files inside the folder "MODS" inside a installation. Then your tool will find the two installations with h.sie in my case.
THANK YOU PAULEBAER!!!

You have just helped me find out that I have already included that code-portion (It is really there!!!), but I mistakenly deactivated it.

ERROR FOUND!
- Scan-routine finds H.sie-backups - FIXED 20140421 (Thanks to Paulebaer for reporting!)
Issue resolved.
Code will be included(and activated!!) in the next version.

Last edited by BL!TZKR!EG; 04-21-2014 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #96
BL!TZKR!EG
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One last important remark to the willing testers for today:

LEAVE THE SCAN RUNNING NO MATTER WHAT !

DO NOT CLICK ANYTHING ! JUST LET IT RUN !

The scan goes through all your fixed hard-drive-partitions. THIS TAKES A WHILE!

Do NOT play around with mouse-wheel or your mouse at all - let's see what happens then!
(I have had only patient alpha-testers so far who were patient enough to wait, that's why I have never seen this error happen in vitro...)

Last edited by BL!TZKR!EG; 04-21-2014 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:10 PM   #97
BL!TZKR!EG
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BETA-STATUS-UPDATE:

We have tested on:
Microsoft Windows [Version 5.1.2600] - i.e. WinXP 32bit - Result: NO CTD, works fine
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601] - i.e. Win7 64bit - Result: NO CTD, works fine


The above "CTD" is no crash, it is Win7-behaviour which has been provoked by impatient clicking with the mouse (unnecessary).

Will investigate further. MORE TESTS PLEASE :=)
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #98
Pisces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG View Post
Hi Pisces,

many thanks for your substantial contributions with good screenshots.

I will go into detail here now, because you have invested so much time. Appreciated!
You're welcome.

Quote:
What system are you running?
Windows 7 Ultimate, English, SP1 64 bit. Acer Aspire 8930 laptop.

Quote:
Any software that could keep S3F from accessing the harddrive for reading access?
Not really. I have a virtual disk (vhd) stored in the C-drive that gets mounted during boot if I want to dual boot to Windows 8. But inside Windows 7 this is not available until I manually mount it into the filesystem. Could be related, but is not apparently. See the following.

Quote:
Could you please try to run S3F as Admin?
Does the issue persist in that case?
Quote:
Is any security-software on your system blocking access to that location (I would not know why and if any) ?
As it turns out, default Windows NTFS security settings!

Regular user accounts have only read permissions on files in the root of a partition. But read and write permissions on files and folders in higher directory levels. They may also create folders in the root, but that is beside the issue. Since I (deliberately for general security reasons) do not have my regular account as an administrator role, the program was denied to create the .ini file in the root of c:\. When run as an administrator this is allowed (administrator group has full control by default), and the .ini file does get created. And the program did continue as expected.

Since this is default behaviour of Windows, I (seriously) suggest you change the saving of the .ini file from the root to another folder. To avoid more unsuccessful reports. You could add the requirement to "Run As..." but that doesn't seem right. The features that the Frontend has does not seem to require elevation to administrator level. (basically searching... but what do I know!?) So I am not comfortable in providing administrator elevation to unknown software. This time was an exception, as I knew the root was off-limits for users trying to create files there. "for the beta phase" does not seem to be a valid excuse imho. You might as well get it right the first time.

In regards to the mentioning of this in the history and credits file. It wasn't said with those exact words that it was in the same folder. That was a presumption on my part, but it seemed reasonable to think it will be saved into the same folder location. Let's keep the system clean and organised.

Quote:
I have no such disortion both on win XP and 7 - please check your sound settings.
I am not happy with the way my sound drivers behave at all!(Realtek chipset, Acer Aspire 8930) So this could very well be only on my side. I am curious if others noticed the same. Some games or applications (Skype is one of them and SH3 too I noticed recently) only output the sound to my earplug connection, but not to the built-in surround speakers (in my laptop). Even if Windows sounds work normally. And trust me, I've tried all settings I could think of. But this distortion I have not heard before. Also, this may be filtered out by the analog output section of the hardware of other people, and or attached speakers/headset. It didn't notice the noise in the GWX music, not now with headset, nor in previous years when it did come out of the internal speakers of my laptop. Odd!

Please allow a simple mute option by clicking in the big image or something.

Quote:
Thanks also for the screenshots. The first screendump is of course not handled (125%), but I keep a note for further versions.
I figured that, but I am not the only one that has this setting. And I am not willing to change this only for your Frontend. Changing it requires login out.

Quote:
What you then describe "rendered 'fuzzy'" is the already known bug as you can find it on page#1 of this thread - I am collecting all known bugs there as well as keep those which I have already found and/or fixed.
At a closer look, the fuzzyness seems to be 2 renderings on top of eachother displaced by a few pixels, and a few lines. I did notice you wrote "1b-scrn" among the bug reports, but I have no idea what that could mean or imply. And thus not if it was related. It might make sense for developers, but not for users.

Quote:
A note on Windows in general. "Frequently clicking inside the window (or using mouse scrollwheel)" usually results in Windows reporting that a running task does not respond. There is not much to change that occurence other than just not doing that. This is about the same as if you copy for instance 20 GB of data from one partition to the other and keep impatiently clicking on that copy-bar - then windows does the very same. This is a native Windows-behaviour.

But thank you for keeping your eyes open!
Yes, I am aware of that. (but a disturbance in the way windows messages are handled internally, could have been important. But I have only old and modest knowledge of how Windows does this programmatically. And definitely not in your program.)

Quote:
That is intentional. The program runs at fixed resolution. And as said, the dissplay-fuzzy-during-scan-bug is already on my list. You can btw see the list on page 1 of this thread.
Fixed resolution is fine, ... for the moment. But an easy 'get out of my view'-button is better.

Quote:
It is not a personal attack at all, it is rather a personal defense and if you have followed the posts during the last we you know what I mean. It has become pretty obvious that I did not start the flaming.

But at the same view the story behind it all must be told. This is what I have tried. And be sure, I did not wake up any sleeping dogs. If you look at this thread and what has happened in the last week you know that these dogs were constantly barking and biteing.
Yes, but you did put fuel on the fire with this. Or if I am allowed to maintain the figure of speech, gave them another bone to fight about. Not so smart if you want to avoid disruption. I would have left this aside until someone really asked about it. And at the most describe that you felt unhappy with the way that former group was run and had other thoughts about how developing should be done. Save your energy for bug-hunts.

Quote:
The comparison between all the tools around was a demand by Blueduck before Urmel ceased his activities for LSH. Even Blueduck was under the first impression that there were similarities.

To finally show that the approaches are entirely different (as are the resulting programs themselves) it appeared obviously necessary to compare them - given the fact that I have twice explained the facts before in this very thread and the described dogs did not stop barking and biteing until warnings from Jimbuna and Sailor Steve were expressed.
Fair enough.

Sorry if this response is not in total chronological and topical order. I find it confusing to reply to parts of yours, that are related to other parts.

Last edited by Pisces; 04-21-2014 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:31 PM   #99
kaleun Peter Gipp
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I have Windows 7 / 64 - bit and it is running without a hiccup .
If I am not mistaken it is in the process of a sea trial .
I feel confident that this application will greatly increase my enjoyment of SH 3

Last edited by kaleun Peter Gipp; 04-21-2014 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:05 PM   #100
Pisces
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A reason not to make the Frontend be run as a different account (run as administrator):

Before getting this message I ran the frontend as the user admin (self created for obvious purpose). Went through the scan succesfully. Then I clicked the SH3 Commander icon in the bottom of the front end.



Running the Frontend as a different account makes Windows choose the documents folder of that account, instead of one's own Documents folder. (which is perfectly logical)
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:14 PM   #101
BL!TZKR!EG
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YES!

I advise to RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR

but NOT to run under a separate account called admin or administrator

The idea to create such an account AFTER installing SH3 1.4b makes no sense
because obviously you have not installed SH3 under that account and thus
the directory paths get messed up as you describe there, Pisces.

This (="RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR") will however NOT be needed in the
next version, because the location of SH3-Front-End.ini will no longer be in c:\
(that was only for testing anyway).

Last edited by BL!TZKR!EG; 04-21-2014 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:20 PM   #102
BL!TZKR!EG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaleun Peter Gipp View Post
I have Windows 7 / 64 - bit and it is running without a hiccup .
If I am not mistaken it is in the process of a sea trial .
I feel confident that this application will greatly increase my enjoyment of SH 3

Prima! Que padre! Yippieh!

Of course I also like to see such comments
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG View Post
A note on Windows7+ in general. "Frequently clicking inside the window (or using mouse scrollwheel)" usually results in Windows7+ reporting that a running task does not respond. There is not much to change that occurence other than just not doing that. This is about the same as if you copy for instance 20 GB of data from one partition to the other and keep impatiently clicking on that copy-bar - then windows does the very same. This is a native Windows7+ (means Win7 and higher)-behaviour.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you but this is a total bs statement . As a Windows programmer I know this is not a true statement and is definitely not caused by the Windows OS. It is caused by a poorly programmed UI - i.e. the software app was not coded correctly. What you failed to do was spawn off other threads to do the 'heavy lifting'. Instead you are using the main thread (UI) to do the 'heavy lifting' and thus locking it up because it's unable to process the messages Windows is sending to it
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #104
Pisces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG View Post
YES!

I advise to RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR

but NOT to run under a separate account called admin or administrator
I did. I logged on with my usual account in Windows that has no administrator priveleges. Then right-click on the frontend executable and selected "Run as administrator". Then the UAC window came. And then the screenshot message appeared as I tried to start SH3 Commander with it. My point is, this is not a solution to make the frontend work around administrator priveledge issues. In practice, there is no difference between these two ways. The wrong document folder is referenced. But from the OS point of view, this is done for a perfect reason.

Quote:
The idea to create such an account AFTER installing SH3 1.4b makes no sense
because obviously you have not installed SH3 under that account and thus
the directory paths get messed up as you describe there, Pisces.
The user admin was not created specifically for this purpose today (or after SH3 for that matter). It was the very first user with which I installed Windows 7 years ago (the built-in "administrator" accountname is reserved because it already exists but is disabled). I just do not want to use those for general usage to avoid malware vulnerability. I very much would like to run the frontend with an un-priveleged account if the .ini location issue didn't ruin it. This is considered a recommended practise in the entire ICT community which I am perfectly contend with. God knows what malware can do if it is allowed.

I'm not saying your program is malware! But I want to keep my doors closed as much as possible.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:34 AM   #105
BL!TZKR!EG
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2 quick notes before I go to work.

Thanks for your input TDW, I will consider it.

As much as you may be right with your diagnosis, it appears to have slipped your view that does not happen on Windows XP (or not to that extent).

How would you explain that?

So far, I'd rate it 80%-OS-dependent and 20% for the app, that has just taken the step from alpha to beta.


Also thanks Pisces for your response.

In fact I do not want to run S3F with admin-rights at all. I am against that for the same reasons that you bring on there. I agree.

As I said, the .ini has now been relocated, so that admin-rights-issue is solved, too.

I have therefore updated the posts on page#1 of this thread again, so that we have an overview on what's to be changed and/or new in the next version.
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