[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I started my career on December 8, 1941 based at Midway

As I said, the issue is in the stock game. Trying to follow a complete Campaign from start to finish is going to cause this game to loose tract of what time it is!!

If you start a "new" Campaign in Fotrs Ultimate, at the offered "Beginning of 1945" start date.....go to any of the offered bases, use any of the offered subs.....you get a working ST Periscope Radar.

When you bring a load of "baggage" from a previous Campaign start date.....the game doesn't know what to do with it when the "new" equipment is supposed to start. It's a flaw in the game due to how it saves itself.

This isn't new, there's dozens and DOZENS of players that have questioned why things happen after a "save" game (like this recent thread)......the simple reason is the game is flawed and we can't do a thing about it except come up with a different way to play......like playing only short Campaign games that start/end during short/specific time periods.

After 10 plus years of this kind of problem, we need to face the facts....the game is flawed in its saved games, and we can't do a thing about it! Within Fotrs Ultimate, we've tried to correct every angle of dates and upgrades, missions and refits. We're the only mod that gives you a working ST Radar! But, the game still needs a hammer taken to it to correct it's inherent flaws.

[KaleunMarco]

i have a request/suggestion: can we update the radio messages to include a message when someone's base is changed? this happens most often with the Asiatic fleet early in the war due to the Japanese string of early territory gains. for example, if one begins in Manila and Manila is abandoned in December or January, can that message be broadcast such like all of the sub captains' sinking reports? i make the request with respect because this is a fine MOD and i have been surprised by base changes too often not to ask...at least once.

[propbeanie]

I haven't checked into those messages yet mark bonamer, but the game is ~supposed~ to transmit a message for you. I know that Stock does it. Part of the problem is similar to what CapnScurvy mentions above with the game and its failure to keep accurate time. Another part of it is the mods and edits to the mods that will mess-up what is displayed in the game. I'll see if I can't trace through what's supposed to happen with that next week, and see if it all needs updating. I don't remember if that goes through the Radio Messages thingie in the Sounds folder, or if it's kicked-in from the Flotillas file (or both)...

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

As I said, the issue is in the stock game. Trying to follow a complete Campaign from start to finish is going to cause this game to loose tract of what time it is!!

If you start a "new" Campaign in Fotrs Ultimate, at the offered "Beginning of 1945" start date.....go to any of the offered bases, use any of the offered subs.....you get a working ST Periscope Radar.

When you bring a load of "baggage" from a previous Campaign start date.....the game doesn't know what to do with it when the "new" equipment is supposed to start. It's a flaw in the game due to how it saves itself.

This isn't new, there's dozens and DOZENS of players that have questioned why things happen after a "save" game (like this recent thread)......the simple reason is the game is flawed and we can't do a thing about it except come up with a different way to play......like playing only short Campaign games that start/end during short/specific time periods.

After 10 plus years of this kind of problem, we need to face the facts....the game is flawed in its saved games, and we can't do a thing about it! Within Fotrs Ultimate, we've tried to correct every angle of dates and upgrades, missions and refits. We're the only mod that gives you a working ST Radar! But, the game still needs a hammer taken to it to correct it's inherent flaws.

Thank you, Captain for the thorough explanation. I accept it, and should I play another complete campaign will be aware and not bitch about it (although it is my understanding that a bitching sailor is a happy sailor!)

I am perfectly content with the SJ-1 Improved Radar when it comes available, but will start a later campaign from time to time to enjoy the later innovations in radar. Much thanks to you, Propbeanie and the mod team. My somewhat quiet (retired) life is enriched by what you have produced. I will go to SH3 from time to time, but always come back to SH4 and FOTARS Ultimate. Great job, guys! Have a beer on me!

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I haven't checked into those messages yet mark bonamer, but the game is ~supposed~ to transmit a message for you. I know that Stock does it. Part of the problem is similar to what CapnScurvy mentions above with the game and its failure to keep accurate time. Another part of it is the mods and edits to the mods that will mess-up what is displayed in the game. I'll see if I can't trace through what's supposed to happen with that next week, and see if it all needs updating. I don't remember if that goes through the Radio Messages thingie in the Sounds folder, or if it's kicked-in from the Flotillas file (or both)...

where are the radio messages stored?

[propbeanie]

There's the Data / Sound / Radio / Washington / Events, and a bunch of INI files beneath. The "Events.ini" controls each of the other INI files in that folder, with the Radio.ini file in the folder 2 levels above controlling the overall behavior of the "radio channel". None of those from my first-looks have anything about a base change for you... and Messages.txt in the Campaign folder doesn't either... nor does UPCLocalization.tsr... My brain is failing me. I know it gets generated when you base is "transferred", but we'll have to wait for an expert to come along and refresh my memory as to where to look...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There's the Data / Sound / Radio / Washington / Events, and a bunch of INI files beneath. The "Events.ini" controls each of the other INI files in that folder, with the Radio.ini file in the folder 2 levels above controlling the overall behavior of the "radio channel". None of those from my first-looks have anything about a base change for you... and Messages.txt in the Campaign folder doesn't either... nor does UPCLocalization.tsr... My brain is failing me. I know it gets generated when you base is "transferred", but we'll have to wait for an expert to come along and refresh my memory as to where to look...

it may not be YOUR brain, pb.
while i do not wish to impugn anyone, i have not received one transfer message while playing FOTR-Ultimate.

i would be happy to contribute some grunt work by entering the message texts into the proper files for the next release but i did not want to insinuate myself into the development team without invitation.

[Larrywb57]

While on patrol with a Balao class submarine out of Midway, I came across a convey that consisted of four merchants and four escorts. Location was Long 166° 00'E and Lat 6° 02'N. Midway base date and time was 30Nov1943 at 12:20 hrs. I ID the ships using the button on the order bar and checking the Recognition Manual. One of the escorts looked a little unusual.



So, using the free camera, I 'flew' to the escort and this is the screenshot that I took.
The convey consisted of two Big Modern Transports, two Large Passenger Carriers, two Destroyer Momill escorts, a Destroyer Yugomu and the suspect Destroyer Hatsuharu which was the leader of the 'pack'.

While evading the escorts after my torpedo attack, I kept sonar track of the other merchant ship. After evading the escorts, I started pursing the convey. The sonar lines on the navigation map disappear. After reaching the last known area, nothing could be found. Thinking the convey despawn.

No other mods used other than listed below.

[propbeanie]

Your screenshot doesn't show on my computer Larrywb57, but that sounds like a similar Troop Transport issue to what we were having a few weeks ago. I'll look into that one and try to get to where you're saying you were. I'm guessing that the "skinning" of the vessel either wasn't complete, or it was all-white? Getting ready for Halloween? As for the vessels "disappearing", if you didn't stay within visual range, and were going just by the sonar lines, those will sometimes seem to come from 50nm and further, so they might have been that far away. Another thing that can happen is when you shot your torpedoes, a couple of the vessels may have run into each other, in their attempts to avoid the torpedoes, and that one received damage, or perhaps was close by an explosion from another vessel and received damage, or maybe even a US airplane attacked and bombed it, and the ship eventually sank. Maybe the weather kicked-up while you were submerged.

Most (not all) of the military groups in the FotRSU mod do have a "proper" termination, like they'll sail from Singapore to Tokyo, and go on in to the harbors before they "de-spawn". Not all of the merchants or fishing vessels are like that though, and there are a few military groups, especially submarines, that will "disappear" in the middle of nowhere, especially the Philippine Sea area. But I don't think that's what happened here. All of the Task Force groups have complete routes... I hope to get back to you by this evening with more.

[Larrywb57]

Propbeanie, I placed my screenshots in my album folder, larrywb57 profile/ album/ screenshots. If you not able to see them, the destroyer was black but, the guns were white.

Larry

[propbeanie]

Does it look like I've got the approximate area here:




In the Mission Editor, with the 43aTaskForce file, it looks like this, with the "dot" being about the same spot as on the Google Map:




If that's correct, you're about 1/2 between the Marshall Islands and the Solomon Islands, correct? The "scale" between the two maps is not the same. That's the Solomon's down in the lower left of both pix.


Edit: It took a bit to figure this web site stuff out, but I finally got to your "Screenshots" album, but it shows as empty also. I don't really need to see the shot anyway. We have discovered though that a bad skinning job can occur from a bad spawn, and you're in an area that doesn't have any TroopTransport groups, if I'm reasonably close to your location (I am about 5 degrees too far South though)... so we'll look through all of the files and see if I can find anything that might generate the combo that you had there.

[Larrywb57]

Oops, sorry I was off one number on longitude, it is 126° 00'E. Latitude is correct, 06° 02'N. I was only off approximately two thousand nautical miles. It was in the Davao Gulf. I first encountered the convey in the Vineyard patrol area where I sunk one of the transports. The third one to go down was at the coordinates above before firing my last torpedoes.

Larry

[propbeanie]

RAM trouble, eh?... I hate it when that happens to my "computer"... mine is a Grey Deviant model...

I'll do me a slightly revised search in that case and be back in a bit.

================================================== ===

Edit: OK, here we go:






LOTS of traffic to choose from. Was it a Southeast bound group, or Northwest bound? I'm going to guess "Inbound", on a Northwest course, since the two Outbounds are both just troop transports... OK, confirmed as a suspect is 43a_Jap_TroopConvoys_006 RGG, departs Ise Bay near Matsusaka, bound for Davao Gulf. Note the very specific contents of the group:



All of the "Properties" settings that I can find of the groups in the area are fine. Here's our primary suspect:




Now, where your sub was is just beyond what would be the spawn range for where this group makes its last turn to come to North-Northwest for the bay, the last leg of its journey. The angle is less than 90 degrees, which we have already discovered in other settings, is NOT a good thing to do for a single ship, much less a mixed group. That ~might~ be the cause, in that the group was in the middle of the turn, running into each other in the mathematical calculations that the computer does, at the same time as it (the computer) was trying to "draw" the group's images... maybe. I will change the "routing" though, and while I'm in here, do a few others that have similar turns. I can see no other clues as to what may have happened near the spawn site. Now, if you were up closer to Japan, this poor group runs through so many other TroopTransport routes, all doing the zig-zag, that it wouldn't surprise me to see about 2 dozen of the groups with issues, if they go to spawn near a spot where they cross each others' paths...

Does it look like I've covered the correct area though?

2nd Edit:

OK, I neglected to look closely at the Hatsuharu. It uses two different Main guns. I'll hand-off to s7rikeback, ~IF~ he's got his computer system going again. Him, Rockin Robbins and myself are all 3 having issues of one form or another, with computers. I don't know about the other two fellers, but I'm a klutz at the keyboard... Anyway, here's a grab of the DAT file for the guns:



It uses that Single for M02, that Double for M01 and M03, and that Torpedo pod... We'll check them thangs too.

[Larrywb57]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

LOTS of traffic to choose from. Was it a Southeast bound group, or Northwest bound?

Yes sir! Your guess is correct. The convey was Northbound into the bay.

Does it look like I've covered the correct area?
Yes sir! That looks like the area.

Larry

[propbeanie]

s7rikeback has responded via PM, and has checked all the ships' files, and all looks good there to him. Only other issue could have been from after-mod plug-ins, and all you've got is Bigger Better Protractors, which does not influence things here, so we'll call it solved unless something else comes up. Working on the Campaign files for better routing at turns...