The return of the Nazis and fascists

[CDR DPH]

Perhaps the slogan for democracy needs to be changed.

From: "For the people by the people."

To: "The people get what they deserve for being acquiescent sheep."

If you think I'm a sheep.
That's nice.

[Buddahaid]

So where is the middle ground? Why do all these arguments just boil down to you're either with me, or against me? A little is always too much? You compromise at all now and you're either a Nazi or a snowflake and that's an old tired song that sadly keeps cycling into popularity to the deaths of millions of voices.

[CDR DPH]

I don't know you Bleiente so I can't say one way or the other. My comments are intended to be taken in a general sense. Please refrain from making "it" personal.

- there are lots of people who do not vote
- lots of people vote along party lines and not for those with new/innovative/the best ideas.
- lots of people can't find Brussels on a map
- lots of people are haters by nature
- lots of people fail to employ logic in their decision making
- the truth hurts so is avoided by many

Not everyone is a sheep/lamb but many are. Most millennials are. That being said, "the people" will be judged by what they do or do not do. Your politicians represent and speak for you. If everyone looks in the mirror and sees a person who has done everything they can to make their country better, to keep democracy responsive and accountable, then there is obviously something in the water contributing to a mass delusion. Is the EU exactly what everyone thought it would be, I don't think so.

There is work to be done but few seem intent on getting to work. More of the same is easier apparently.

[CDR DPH]

For me the middle ground is that place where sanity, logic and clearly defined results converge.

Not all immigrants are needed or even wanted. Some will assimilate and enjoy a life that makes society better for us all. Others, not so much. We should not be saying anyone whose house was bombed on the other side of the world is welcome to live on our streets. Logic dictates that not all of those who find themselves dispossessed are desirable.

We as a society have to stop telling everyone what to do all the time. We attempt to codify everything that happens in our daily lives. Then we attempt to prod others in other countries to do the same. We tend to focus on the results and lose sight of the path to get there. We are so politically correct these days that we cannot laugh at ourselves and it is now a mortal sin to laugh at anyone else.

We can't identify criminals by their ethnicity so that others of that group are not unfairly assumed to be criminals themselves. The fact that in some cases, the majority of criminals are in fact of a specific ethnicity and thus other members of that community are also probably criminals, is just too difficult for people to process so we just avoid stating the obvious and label anyone who does as a racist.

Speak badly of women and your a misogynist. Speak badly of immigrants who make our societies worse and you are a xenophobe. About the only segment of society that is not a distinct and protected class these days is the white male. That is clearly a different discussion.

The middle ground is where reason, sanity and sober reflection can exist, can be discussed, can be openly contemplated without resulting in cries from rabid fanatics denouncing anything and everything that is the least bit interpretive. The middle ground is where politicians consult and heed the advice they are given. Where a political agenda does not trump reason and logic just for the sake of obtaining an arbitrary or politically advantageous goal at the expense of in and in complete disregard of the electorate. The middle ground is devoid of fanaticism, radicalism and just about every other "ism". The middle ground is the recognition that people are individuals, are what comprises our notion of humanity and are capable of being good to one another. The middle ground is not the left or the right or even those who consider themselves centrist. The middle ground is where everything is possible and from that place comes rules, goals, associations that are reasonable, fair and just, favoring no one in particular but everyone in general.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by CDR DPH

The middle ground is where reason, sanity and sober reflection can exist, can be discussed, can be openly contemplated without resulting in cries from rabid fanatics denouncing anything and everything that is the least bit interpretive. The middle ground is where politicians consult and heed the advice they are given. Where a political agenda does not trump reason and logic just for the sake of obtaining an arbitrary or politically advantageous goal at the expense of in and in complete disregard of the electorate. The middle ground is devoid of fanaticism, radicalism and just about every other "ism". The middle ground is the recognition that people are individuals, are what comprises our notion of humanity and are capable of being good to one another. The middle ground is not the left or the right or even those who consider themselves centrist. The middle ground is where everything is possible and from that place comes rules, goals, associations that are reasonable, fair and just, favoring no one in particular but everyone in general.

Well said. Very well said.

[Buddahaid]

Thank you. It still takes seeing and that's all perception.

[Catfish]

This sounds a bit different, yes. And i am all for logic, and calling a spade a spade regardless of political wants or bias.

So, for me, when somone's life is threatend due to a war
a) in case of the middle east perpetrated by nations that are far away and want to enforce their strategical/economical/political interest in that region, with consequences for the population that the latter has no control of
or
b) in case someones's life is directly threatened for political reasons, or being a minority, or just unwanted (like the Kurdish), or because they dared to criticize their government like with Mr Kashoggi, who was tortured and dismembered alive if someone already forgot that.

Those people should be helped. Just because their dear life is being threatened, while for us helping them means a relatively(!)small nuisance to us, if we feel it at all.
To call a spade a spade I am glad Skybird was able to buy his 3000 Euro or whatever VR gaming rig, it seems all those immigrants were not able to hinder him, and sure he did not consider to give the money to helping organisations instead. I do not blame him or others at all (in fact i also care more for myself than for others, computer, car, apartment, house whatever), but some are lamenting from a relatively high level. Yes we have some problems, but compared to Syria? To Iraq? We never had it as good as now here in Europe. In my humblest of opinions, yes we can afford it, and immigration numbers are falling.
If he or me was born in Syria we probably would have other "problems".

This does not mean i am content how some convictable criminals organized like the Mafia are not immediately being deported, but again this is not the majority. If someone steals he goes to jail or is being sent back if his life is not threatened there, if someone kills he should be deported right away.


Another thing regarding post #1.
While it is of course true that not everyone who is afraid of immigrants is a "Nazi", especially parties who promise to "care" for the immigrants in their own special way like the AfD in Germany use the exact same vocabulary as the Nazis; it is as if they directly copied it from the "Stuermer" NSDAP newspaper back then.
They take away our jobs, they are assassins, they will breed more of their offspring than us ("Ueberfremdung", used by the AfD), they will destroy our culture, our country and spirit are bound for destruction. They will take and destroy our religion, and they take and rape "our" women.

If i read or hear such words, my alarm bells start to ring. When such vocabulary and propaganda is being used, it usually means war. Yes i know this war talk is used by the Sun or the Express in England since decades, but i was not worried until Farage and UKIP.

A third thing regarding post #1, and it will not please you: When the NSDAP claimed power, it was not the majority. Indeed they aggressively grabbed power illegally, with frightening and blackmailing other members of the parliament, beating or killing them, since the Nazis were to lose the next election. This is exactly what the AfD is trying in Germany, or what happens in Romania, or Poland. Bleiente's warning or fear is not unfounded. It was most probably the AfD which recently published intimate details of all political adversaries, with copied e-mails, details of their children, their friends, addresses etc., and hints were to hit them.

A last thing about "Nazis", if anyone cares to define this term anyway. They were not the most intelligent people. They hated what they thought of as "the elite". The SA which made it all possible mostly consisted of dumb thugs and scrappers, who wanted to be "great". Of course there were some like Goebbels or other party theorists, but the major part of their early followers were not the brightest. But they were finally given a chance now, after all those years of having no job for whatever reason, being subdued by others they feared or envied, now they had finally won and let the other side feel it. And i do see some analogy. God help us if something like the PiS or AfD parties get the upper hand.

[CDR DPH]

With 7+ billion people now on this planet and more being born every day into adverse living conditions, let's say 4 billion people are living in war torn areas, areas of severe drought, famine, depressed economic conditions, political tyranny and places not as nice as other places. This makes for a lot of potential immigrants who wish to better their situation. Many who would not normally strike out for far away pastures if it were not for the stories coming back about how "profitable" such a journey can be or how unlikely it is that they will be denied sanctuary.

I am now of the opinion, after having reached the conclusion that there is no possible way for the developed world to accept everyone who will eventually show up, the only feasible solutions are those that correct the problems that produce these refugee migrations in the countries where these problems exist.

"We" should be concerned, we should be empathetic but we must also be pragmatic. "We" must make it possible for the downtrodden to live and prosper where they are. The United Nations rather than drafting treaties that define how refugees are to be treated when they show up and say, "here I am, feed me", should probably be focusing on compelling errant governments to look after their own citizens in their own country.

Originally Posted by Eichhörnchen

"Resistance is futile"

We are the Borg!

And further in the text... umm on the topic.
Nice column in the "Spiegel".

Google translator
http://translate.google.com/translat...a-1248317.html

Original
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/v...a-1248317.html