Modifying sub ranges

[Ichthyos]

Hi all!

Been reading this forum for a long while, finally decided to register just because it is a very unique place with so many sub-heads and tons of good info.

started my sub sim days with the old 688 Attack Sub, and went a LONG while before finally trying out SH3 a couple months back.

now I'm hooked again.

anywho, on with the question!

I had a lot of fun modding SH3 for my own tastes, and have been working to tweak SH4 as well, but have been running in to some odd behavior and things not working like I expected given it's essentially the same engine.

What I am trying to do specifically at the moment is extend both the surface range and the underwater range of particular boats by 25-50%.

In sh3, I just used Silent 3editor to mod the sub.sim files to extend the range values, and that seemed to work.

in sh4 doing that seems to have the REVERSE effect? I tried doubling the underwater range on one sub, and ended up with a sub that ran out of batteries in about 30 mins :P

so, any advice on how to properly set the values, and where, to get specific subs (example Tambor Class) to have increased ranges, or use diesel/batteries more slowly?

thanks muchly

[mikesn9]

Welcome aboard...

[CTU_Clay]

Welcome to SubSim "Ichthyos"

[aanker]

Originally Posted by Ichthyos

I had a lot of fun modding SH3 for my own tastes, and have been working to tweak SH4 as well, but have been running in to some odd behavior and things not working like I expected given it's essentially the same engine.

What I am trying to do specifically at the moment is extend both the surface range and the underwater range of particular boats by 25-50%.

In sh3, I just used Silent 3editor to mod the sub.sim files to extend the range values, and that seemed to work.

in sh4 doing that seems to have the REVERSE effect? I tried doubling the underwater range on one sub, and ended up with a sub that ran out of batteries in about 30 mins :P

so, any advice on how to properly set the values, and where, to get specific subs (example Tambor Class) to have increased ranges, or use diesel/batteries more slowly?

thanks muchly

What speed & distance are you using in your SH4 sims?

Think about battery life and fuel in a different light because I tried what you're trying with the same results and tore m hair out. - heh

Using tweaked sim settings now I can sail submerged for over 98 nm @ 2 - 3 knots and run out of battery a little before the CO2 builds up to toxic levels a few hours later - around 48+/- hours.
I can also sail at the much used in real life, 'two-engine speed' - 15 knots - and have no problem getting 10,000 - 12,000 nm which is about what they did in real life.

Is this what you want in a fleetboat? (I don't play the U Boat side)

Welcome to Subsim.

[Ichthyos]

yup. that's about the size of it. really though, I just need to understand which files in the sim will do what if I change them.

speed is simple and straightforward, have not had any problems changing boat max speeds. for example, for tambor I increased max speed to 25 from 20, and max underwater speed to 12 from 8.

just need to make the fuel and batteries last based on the newer increased speeds.

like I said, I tried just adjusting the "range" values, but it seemed to have little effect, or in the case of underwater range, the reverse effect and my batteries lasted for next to nothing if I say, increased the range from the stock "83" to something like "300".

Is it engine power related? will decreasing the engine power while still increasing the max boat speed result in lower power usage?

[aanker]

I edited my GATO sim's (for example) to 15.19 knots @ 14138.4 nm. Each class is different and the numbers can be a little different if you like.

in this folder (Data\Submarine) for every boat are the SIM's. Edit the SIM's for each class.
For example, NSS_Gato.sim in:
Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\

Learning from Master Ducimus - Disclaimer - he does not endorse me:

NSS_Gato.sim
- open NSS_Gato.sim
- find:
- - - - - - - - - -
unit_Submarine
_ _ unit_Submarine
_ _ _ _ Ranges
_ _ _ _ _ _ Surfaced
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ miles = 14138.4 <--- changed
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ knots = 15.19 <----- Eureka revelation
_ _ _ _ _ _ Submerged
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ miles = 20.0 <------ + affects recharge times *1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ knots = 4.0 <------- +/- affects recharge times *1

- - - - - - - - - -
*1 Changing - increasing these values (miles) increased the recharge times to days, which is why the Propulsion Specialist with Battery Abilities is needed.

Using those numbers, that's 15+/- knots at Standard speed and around 12,000 - 14,000 nm distance depending on conditions.

Also edit the CFG's to:

AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.25
AheadOneThird=0.50
AheadStandard=0.75
AheadFull=0.90
AheadFlank=1.00

By editing the Special Abilities UPC to:

[SpecialAbility ]
ID=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist
NameDisplayable=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist-Name
Description=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist-Description
AbilityType=BatteryConsume; FuelConsume <-- comment out FuelConsume
AbilityValue= -44; -5
AbylityActsIn= PropulsionRoom
SkillRequiredLeadership= 0
SkillRequiredMechanical= 0.7
SkillRequiredElectrics= 0.7
SkillRequiredGuns= 0
SkillRequiredWatchman= 0

For this to work you need to place a Propulsion Specialist ability crewman (edit him in) to the PropulsionRoom and always keep him there. Submerged distances upwards of 95 - 100 nm at 2 knots are easy. Recharge times aren't very long and closer to realistic times from 4+ hours at all stop to 9 hours at standard speed (14 - 15+ knots) which is what the patrol reports read.

Understanding and figuring this out wasn't easy. Thanks to Ducimus! ... Too many people were tight-lipped about how to do some things, or maybe they just didn't know, so I couldn't get a straightforward answer, although others had hearts of gold... I'm for sharing.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To automate getting the crewman with the Special Ability on your roster he is edited into:
CrewMembers.upc in:
Data\UPCData\UPCCrewData\

CrewMember 51 here was added after CrewMember 50. Other files for different boat classes may have a different final crew member number to add to:

[CrewMember 51]
ID= Crew-CO-Rank-1-Ability-Propulsion-Specialist
NameDisplayable= NULL
CrewMemberNameIDLinks= NormalUSNames,CommonUSNames
DateOfBirth= NULL
Head= NULL
Voice= NULL
Tatoo= NULL
Rank= CPO
CurrentExperience= 0
Qualifications= QualCommand7
SpecialAbilities= Ability-Propulsion-Specialist
IntelligenceCoef= 0.50
LeadershipCoef= 0.95
MechanicalCoef= 0.70
ElectricsCoef= 0.70
GunsCoef= 0.30
WatchmanCoef= 0.50
Medals=
Patrols=0
Morale= Normal
FatigueCoef=0
Hitpoints= 500.0
RenownCost= 3000
Notes= ; should be editable by the player
;DamageDescription1=DamageType,MinDamage, MaxDamage, ChanceFactor, Message, DamageDestination, EfficiencyReduction, medic_skill,recovery_time_in_hours
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 1, Minor Wound, NULL, 0.2, 0.3, 48
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0, 0.2, 1, It's just a scratch, NULL, 0.05, 0.1, 4
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.2, 0.5, 1, Broken Arm, HumanDamageArmwound, 0.6, 0.5, 96
DamageDescription4= NULL, 0.4, 0.8, 0.1, Liver wound, HumanDamageArmwound, 1, 0.7, 240
DamageDescription5= NULL, 0.6, 1, 1, Sucking chest wound, HumanDamageLegWound, 1, 0.8, 240

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So, I hope this is helpful. I like having more realistic cruising and patrolling speeds.

Happy Hunting!

[Sniper297]

Surface range is straightforward, that's in each sub's SIM file;
Miles=15000
Knots=12
will give a max range of 15000 miles at 12 knots.

Submerged is a different story;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=211380

That subroutine is so screwed up the best you can do is get it somewhere close to a realistic feel then just live with it.

What I'm using now;

S-Class;

E-Propulsion
Max Speed = 9
Eng Power = 2350
Eng RPM = 296

Ranges
Submerged
Miles = 0.5
Knots = 30

All fleet boats;

E-Propulsion
Max Speed = 10
Eng Power = 2660
Eng RPM = 270

Ranges
Submerged
Miles = 1
Knots = 45

That looks totally whacko, but read the thread - the labels are not what they're labeled to be for underwater propulsion.

[Ichthyos]

ah, I was right then, the subsurface sim ranges are exactly reversed from what you would expect.

that is indeed... bizarre.

and as to add a crewman with the special ability... coincidentally I had figured that out in the last hour before I came back to check this thread, and added the ability to my chief engineer.



thanks for the feedback; exactly what I was hoping for! will report back "real world" results.

cheers

[aanker]

From: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=211380&page=2
Post 25.

That results in 130 miles at 2 knots and recharge from 10% in one hour. What I'm shooting for here is about 90-100 miles at 2 knots and 6 to 8 hours recharge time from 10%, but near as I can tell there's no way to affect the range without also affecting the recharge time.

Try the Propulsion Specialist method I described above. Ducimus had a Eureka moment over at Kickinbak and figured out the ranges and led the way to realistic surface & submerged ranges and recharge times.

With the Propulsion Specialist settings I get 98 nm at 2 - 3 nm and recharge times about 8-9 hours at 15 knots.

I'll test out your numbers, thank you, but I'm very satisfied with the Kickinback Propulsion Specialist method I've used for years now.

[Ichthyos]

oh man, that does WEIRD things.

set the subsurface range distribution to 1/45

at full speed, got 100nm before running out of juice. figured that's good.

then tried at standard speed.

ran out of juice in 15nm.

er... lolwut?

this makes NO sense. flank speed I got about 75nm. why in hells would it use so much MORE juice to go SLOW?

Ima just put it back to standard and hope lowering the engine power a tad will do the trick.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by Ichthyos

oh man, that does WEIRD things.

set the subsurface range distribution to 1/45

at full speed, got 100nm before running out of juice. figured that's good.

then tried at standard speed.

ran out of juice in 15nm.

er... lolwut?

this makes NO sense. flank speed I got about 75nm. why in hells would it use so much MORE juice to go SLOW?

Ima just put it back to standard and hope lowering the engine power a tad will do the trick.

Are you using the Propulsion-Specialist method I described? If so try cut and paste. Many people are using this method with success.

In reality you should only have power for one hour at 9 knots submerged, I've never needed to try it.

-------------------------------------------
Everything was fine with batteries & distance in v1.2, then the Dev's changed some things so CCIP's battery submerged ranges no longer worked. Everything was backwards. That is why it is such a pita to get it right nowadays.

[Ichthyos]

I went through all the boats, and realized every single one of them by default is set to:

83
4

I gotta figure there is a reason for that, so I set mine back to default, and instead modified the special ability to -.70 (double default) for battery consumption... and I got exactly what I wanted. I wanted to be able to do full speed underwater for 4 hours. and that's exactly what I got.

at 4 knots, I get nearly 24hrs underwater. at flank, about 3

the weird thing still is standard speed... which still takes more batter power than any other speed.

there are definitely some weird bugs in the primary asset codes somewhere.

FWIW, I never paid attention before, but that weird thing with standard speed happens even without tinkering with the sim files at all.

conclusion: either go very slow, or very fast.

[aanker]

Well, the main thing is you are happy.

CCIP (an early modder (back in the MiniTweaker days) had the battery & ranges figured out perfectly for every boat back in the v1.1 - v1.2 days and then the Dev's changed something in their next patch v1.3 and his method no longer worked.

Look how happy everyone was! (until about page 4 and then on to post 127) after v1.3 came out.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109120

A bit of Subsim history!

Happy Hunting!