SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > SHIII Mods Workshop
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2015, 12:33 PM   #106
sublynx
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope
Posts: 1,666
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 7
Default

Would it be possible to fix the helmsman not keeping course bug? Especially in stormy weather the helmsman lets the magnetic course drift making navigation without automatic course keeping from annoyingly inaccurate to impossible.

This makes this simulated real navigation method difficult:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...98#post2361498

It also makes convoy battles too cumbersome. I can estimate the right course with a maneuvering board or an attack disc, and would need no F5 Navigation Room at all if the drift wouldn't make course keeping without automatic waypoints too inaccurate.

U-boats didn't have waypoints. They had courses.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS
sublynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 08:43 AM   #107
Fader_Berg
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Uppland, Sweden
Posts: 263
Downloads: 47
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sublynx View Post
Would it be possible to fix the helmsman not keeping course bug? Especially in stormy weather the helmsman lets the magnetic course drift making navigation without automatic course keeping from annoyingly inaccurate to impossible.

This makes this simulated real navigation method difficult:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...98#post2361498

It also makes convoy battles too cumbersome. I can estimate the right course with a maneuvering board or an attack disc, and would need no F5 Navigation Room at all if the drift wouldn't make course keeping without automatic waypoints too inaccurate.

U-boats didn't have waypoints. They had courses.
Yes... That is indeed annoying. I'll put it on the TODO-list.
__________________
patSH3r-developer
Type II junkie
https://fb.tuxxor.net
Fader_Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 10:38 AM   #108
sublynx
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope
Posts: 1,666
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 7
Default

That's marvelous to hear!
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS
sublynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #109
makman94
Hellas
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,338
Downloads: 180
Uploads: 7


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sublynx View Post
Would it be possible to fix the helmsman not keeping course bug? ...
yes...that is indeed very annoying !

very good point, Sublynx !

Lets hope Fader_Berg to manage locate it
__________________
Knowledge is the only thing that nobody can ever take from you...



Mediafire page:http://www.mediafire.com/folder/da50.../Makman94_Mods
makman94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 01:28 PM   #110
Fahnenbohn
Keelhauled
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: France
Posts: 1,146
Downloads: 155
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sublynx View Post
the helmsman not keeping course bug
Hello Sublynx. Could you explain me what you are talking about ? I don't understand.
Fahnenbohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 03:45 PM   #111
sublynx
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope
Posts: 1,666
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn View Post
Hello Sublynx. Could you explain me what you are talking about ? I don't understand.
I have never navigated in real life nor can I really understand vector mathematics, so this is going to be awfully difficult for me to write, but maybe it'll help a bit on where to look for clearer info. Perhaps someone else will help as well.

Situation 1.
I want to go straight to East. I click the compass to change the course to 90 degrees True. The wind is 0 m/s. No problem. The U-boat sails accurately to East.

Situation 2.
I want to go straight to East. I click the compass to change the course to 90 degrees True. The wind is 15 m/s. Two factors push the U-boat badly off course:
a. the wind pushes the boat away from the wanted vector (this is realistic and could be compensated by using real life navigation techniques, if not for the bug described in b.)
b. the AI lets the U-boat turn from the wanted course. First perhaps it's 91 degrees, then the compass indicates 92, then 93, etc. This is unrealistic, it means no-one is at the helm, someone has basically fallen asleep and the boat is drifting with no control at all. This makes the real life navigation technique of dead reckoning near impossible at times.
Here's a link to an explanation on dead reckoning and how wind direction and speed are compensated for in real life navigation:

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/St...N/Chapt-07.pdf

The ways the AI in SH3 deals with this are:
1. the usage of automatic waypoints (setting the course in Navigation map F5 view) keeps the desired and route despite wind conditions
2. the U-boat's position is always marked exactly right in the F5 view (U-boats didn't have a satellite positioning system, so they didn't always know their exact positions on the map)

The basically satellite-based system makes manual targeting too easy in SH3. For example the 3:15 method is really nice, fast and unhistorical to use with a known U-boat position, because you see all the time where your U-boat is and can just draw a couple of lines from a known point in space and time.

Hide the U-boat symbol from the map and target speed and course estimating, and intercept point estimating becomes wholly different. Instead of GPS navigating and waypoints the U-boats used techniques described for example in the Kriegsmarine Angriffscheibe Handbuch by Hitman and KLH:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...1&postcount=72

The American mariners used maneuvering board techniques, like the ones described in the 1941 US Navy Maneuvering Board Manual:
https://archive.org/details/maneuveringboard00unit

If the Helmsman bug is fixed, one can start using some real life navigating techniques both for travelling and more realistic navigation during long convoy approaches, battles and shadowings.

One way to get a grip on all of this is downloading Aaronblood's Electronic MoBo from the downloads section. IIRC it was done with the assistance of a real life Navy Officer.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS
sublynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 08:09 PM   #112
Fahnenbohn
Keelhauled
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: France
Posts: 1,146
Downloads: 155
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for the explanation, Sublynx.
Fahnenbohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 01:19 PM   #113
Fahnenbohn
Keelhauled
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: France
Posts: 1,146
Downloads: 155
Uploads: 0
Default

Hello Fader Berg, please have a look here : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...39&postcount=4

Tell me what you are thinking about my idea.
Fahnenbohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 06:03 PM   #114
Fader_Berg
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Uppland, Sweden
Posts: 263
Downloads: 47
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn View Post
Hello Fader Berg, please have a look here : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...39&postcount=4

Tell me what you are thinking about my idea.
The algorithm is quite simple so I guess it's possible. But I don't have full insight in the SH3 weather mechanics (yet), so there is still a lot of work to get it done.
It isn't much of a game changer though, so I personally don't think it's worth the trouble.
__________________
patSH3r-developer
Type II junkie
https://fb.tuxxor.net
Fader_Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2015, 06:35 AM   #115
Niedowidek
Bosun
 
Niedowidek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 63
Downloads: 111
Uploads: 0
Default

I hope that some more features are coming. Project is great and features already added are really making SH3 better. Dear Santa, I'm asking for more ;-)
__________________
SH3, GWX 3.0 or NYGM, h.sie/Stiebler hardcoded fixes, patchSH3r, Hitman's GUI, Hide My Sub, Evan82's Uniforms II
SH4 TMO
Niedowidek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2015, 07:33 PM   #116
BL!TZKR!EG
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,927
Downloads: 40
Uploads: 76


Default

So far, the best summarization about SH3 and its weather is post #18 - THANKS STIEBLER!!
BL!TZKR!EG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2015, 05:19 AM   #117
Fader_Berg
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Uppland, Sweden
Posts: 263
Downloads: 47
Uploads: 0
Default

This is the day we celebrate christmas in Sweden, so Merry Christmas to you all.

No christmas gifts on my part this year.
I'll try to find time to apply some more patches in 2016.
__________________
patSH3r-developer
Type II junkie
https://fb.tuxxor.net
Fader_Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2015, 12:54 PM   #118
MLF
Weps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SW France
Posts: 361
Downloads: 134
Uploads: 0
Default

Merry Christmas Fader_Berg and thanks for all your work to date.



Regards,

MLF
__________________
Je pense donc je fuis!
MLF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2015, 02:13 PM   #119
Niedowidek
Bosun
 
Niedowidek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 63
Downloads: 111
Uploads: 0
Default

Merry Christmas!
Lycka till!
__________________
SH3, GWX 3.0 or NYGM, h.sie/Stiebler hardcoded fixes, patchSH3r, Hitman's GUI, Hide My Sub, Evan82's Uniforms II
SH4 TMO
Niedowidek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 08:28 AM   #120
Fader_Berg
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Uppland, Sweden
Posts: 263
Downloads: 47
Uploads: 0
Default

r34:
  • Added wo_to_bridge

Watch officer to bridge

The watch officer - with best endurance - in either bow- or stern compartment, will be moved to bridge when surfacing.
This patch will override the hsie equivalent if both are enabled.
__________________
patSH3r-developer
Type II junkie
https://fb.tuxxor.net

Last edited by Fader_Berg; 01-07-2016 at 10:46 AM.
Fader_Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim