The LWAMI 3.11 Preview Thread

[Molon Labe]

Wow, that's looking really nice!

[von faust]

Fantastic !!!!

[Gorshkov]

Do you consider older Russian ASW heavyweight torpedoes like SET-53M and SET-65 as being still dangerous to Western subs - both nuclear and conventional? How will you portray them in LWAMI 3.11? It seems they are still wiedely used amongst Third World navies and probably in Russian Navy, too.

Besides I don't know if your mod is focused on present strategic situation or it looks a little bit in the past but it would be interesting to estimate what types of naval weapons are currently in use among several crucial World navies. Let's take a look at Russian Navy torpedoes AD 2010. My guessing:

- heavy-weight: UGST (?), USET-80, TEST-71, SET-65
- low-weight: AT-2, AT-3/UMGT-1, SET-40/72/73, MTP-1UM, APR-2

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Do you consider older Russian ASW heavyweight torpedoes like SET-53M and SET-65 as being still dangerous to Western subs - both nuclear and conventional? How will you portray them in LWAMI 3.11? It seems they are still wiedely used amongst Third World navies and probably in Russian Navy, too.

Besides I don't know if your mod is focused on present strategic situation or it looks a little bit in the past but it would be interesting to estimate what types of naval weapons are currently in use among several crucial World navies. Let's take a look at Russian Navy torpedoes AD 2010. My guessing:

- heavy-weight: UGST (?), USET-80, TEST-71, SET-65
- low-weight: AT-2, AT-3/UMGT-1, SET-40/72/73, MTP-1UM, APR-2

A few 3rd world units in LWAMI and some cold war era boats have the SET-65 or SET-53M (Might have removed that one). You have to really mess up to get sunk by one of those in LWAMI driving a playable sub.

All contemporary Russian subs are fitted with weapons like the UGST and USET-80. While older weapons maybe in the inventory all subs in LWAMI are fitted with the best weapons available for the time period of the game (1980 to ~2010). In other words most subs have the torpedoes they used in the last years of their commission.

I think we have just about all those torpedoes you listed already in V3.10 give or take one or two.

[Gorshkov]

OK! As I researched this area now Russian Navy has the following surface warships carrying torpedo tubes and ASROCs:

- 1124M/ME Grisha-III/V: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1241.2/PE Pauk: 4xI OTA-40/2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1331M Parchim: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1135 Krivak-I/II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 4xURPK-4 Metel ASROC
- 1154 Neustrashimy: 6xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC
- 1155 Udaloy-I: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xURK-5 Rastrub-B ASROC
- 1155M Udaloy-II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK
- 956 Sovremenny: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1164 Slava: 2xV PTA-53 TT
- 1144 Kirov: 2xV PTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC

Taken all above into consideration it seems now Russian surface ASW vessels are mainly equipped with:

- SET-65 and SET-40M/SET-72 ASW torpedoes fired from on-board torpedo tubes

- UMGT-1 and AT-2 torpedoes carried by Russian ASROCs

Performance of these torps is now meaningless:

- SET-40M - 29 kts/8 km, homing range 600 m
- SET-72 - 30 kts/13 km, homing range 800 m
- SET-65 - 35 kt/15 km, homing range 800 m
- AT-2 - 40 kt/8km, homing range 1000 m
- UMGT-1 - 41 kts/8 km, homing range 1200 m

All in all Russian and former Soviet client states navies surface vessels ASW potential is now ridiculous.

As for today's torpedo armament of Russian submarines:

- 53-65 wake-homer - in real life this is a kamikaze weapon.
- TEST-71 - well, simply a bit modified SET-65 with primitive wire guidance. Seeker range is 800-1000 m. It was rumored all Russian TEST-71s would be scrapped in 2010.
- USET-80 - at the beginning horribly unreliable the last Russian electric HWT, very noisy. Performance: 48 kt/18 km, seeker range 1500 m.
- UGST - simply Russian equivalent of early Mk-48 created 30 years after its archer. Most probably its performance is 50 kt/20 km and 40 kt/35 km, seeker range 2000 m. Well, Chinese also catch-up Russkies here having similar Yu-6 fish.

All of these fishes except UGST are badly outdated and the latter also is far behind latest American ADCAP models.

Additional notes about Russian torpedoes:

- SET-53, MGT-1 and SAET-60 torpedoes homing system is simply a copy of German "Zaukoenig" torpedo homing system developed by German scientists jailed in the USSR after the war . The SAET-60M was withdrawn from service in 1990s!

- TEST-68 is a SET-53M with wire, TEST-71 is a SET-65 with wire, VTT-1 is an AT-1 with wire

- MPT-1 is another name of "Colibri" torpedo being Russian copy of US Mk-46 Mod. 0 LWT. It was planned to use MPT-1 as a part of Medvedka ASROC but this project was abandoned. Later MPT-1 was introduced into MTPK mine-torpedo ASW system.

- Russian wake-homers (especially 53-65 torpedoes still broadly used in Russia) are very overrated weapons in practical terms! The principal problem of wake detection homing system is close proximity of launching site to a target due to significant losses in distance (torpedo is knowingly launched "behind the target" and then follows it) and in pursuit speed (torpedo moves not in a straight line but "sinusoidally"). As a matter of fact, far back in 1960s launch sites of Soviet 53-cm torpedoes were within engagement zone of ASROC system in favorable hydrological conditions. Soviet sub could get ASROC's "knockout" prior to launch her torpedo. Contrary to popular belief, there are effective techniques to oppose a wake-responsive torpedo. The US Navy is quite aware of those methods and do practice them.

- latest variant of USET-80 torpedo called USET-80K (IOC 1989) has "Keramika" ("Ceramics") homing system used in "Colibri" design and being essentially a Soviet copy of Mk-46 Mod.0 guidance unit from late 1960s but still better than brand-new domestic Soviet designs! Basic USET-80 (IOC 1980) had "Vodopad" homing system also found in UMGT-1 LWT. Yet test firings of USET-80 turned out to be almost complete failure. Intercepting of submerged targets was impossible due to long reaction time of its control system processing not rapidly enough data from torpedo's sonar suite. In short, USET-80 state trials on the Black Sea were a cheat. Moreover USET-80 is very expensive weapon with limited service time but is still bought by Russian Navy in very small quantities.

- Soviet active/passive homing systems are very prone to more complicated sea conditions and enemy countermeasures. In practical terms that means their combat effectiveness would be very low.

- UGST project has almost 30 years long history. There were three torpedo types developed under this codename: Tapir (peroxide), Magot (oxygen) and Fizik (mono-propellant Otto II). Now it seems that present Russian USGT is an early Mk-48 model equivalent (not ADCAP). Possibly Soviet intelligence acquired Mk-48 technology in the late 1970s to early 1980s period.


PS. LA Imp top speed is 36-37 knots!

[TLAM Strike]

interesting data. Could you site some sources so we can verify. Especially on the subject of false USET-80 tests and the LA top speed.

[Gorshkov]

http://rusnavy.com/science/weapons/underseaweapon/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/21183...?action=signup

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20091127/157008667.html

Russkies always were behind the West technologically but they were able to improve their situation thanks to Land-Lease, imprisoned German scientists and vast technological espionage. However now - 20 years after USSR's collapse - it looks like Russian naval R&D base was destroyed and thus they cannot build modern warships, design new naval weapons etc. Even Soviet inheritance finally ended and copying of stolen Western technology is impossible.

If Admiral Popov is right in a few years all large post-Soviet warships will be scrapped. Thus almost all remaining Slavas (3 in service), Sovremiennys (5), Udaloys (8 at most), Krivaks (3), Oscars (3-4), Deltas IV (6), Akulas I (7), Kilos (about 15) will disappear and all Delta III, Victor III, Sierra subs are withdrawn from service right now. What can serve longer is: one propaganda-carrier of Kuznetsov-class, one Kirov-class nuclear cruiser, one Udaloy-II class destroyer, two Nieustrashimy-class ASW frigates, two Akula-II class SSNs and that is all. On the other hand Russians build now one frigate, four corvettes, three Ladas and two SSNs aside of three SSBNs without service-ready SLBM. Of course Russkies started some exhumation activity by introducing into service several wrecks which rusted in shipyards for 10-20 years but this is only joke confirming their downfall. All that means it is impossible for them to replace several dozen old warships in four-five separate fleets on equal basis. It is certain Russian Navy will become small coastal force but even this task will be hard to achieve because many old Nanuchkas, Tarantuls, Pauks, Grishas also need replacement. I think the West, China and Japan can forget about Russian naval presence because each Russian fleet will consist less than ten principal surface combatants...only Baltic states and Georgia will be in danger!

That is why I must mod your mod myself...

Is it possible to make this new update like more easier to install. Its not a biggie, i know. But i just cast stand it. I still play 3.09 cause of that. Proper installation plz. This is the best mod after all....

[Hangman]

Well, ... I'm going to have to chime in here me thinks.

I have recently invested in DW and am looking for the mods.
I have found and downloaded LWAMI 3.08, but where can I get the 3.09 &/or 3.10 ??
<EDITED> Found it !! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170376)

<EDITED> Questions below still apply, Thanks.
Also, does anyone have any info on what works with LWAMI and what doesn't ??

The only mod's I am feeling comfortable with at the moment to run with LWAMI is the 'DWCombinedSoundpack v1.0'.

Do you have any other mod suggestions I can put on my machine ??

Thanks.

[TLAM Strike]

Been a while since I've posted any images. Here is a WIP of my Buyan class corvette. Just have to finish the radars and mast and it should be good to go...

[XabbaRus]

You have to remember that Popov was teh guy sacked after the Kursk sinking IIRC.

Russia is scrapping old hard to maintain vessels.

A smart move really.

[Gorshkov]

LOL! Russia announced that has plans to return into service three Kirov-class cruisers before 2020. Can you imagine reviving of such radioactive bunch of rusted junks?

A smart move really!

Popov is right - every one can see what happened with Russian Navy. Hunting Somali pirates and attacking countries not possessing their own fleet like Georgia - that is exactly what Russian Navy can do effectively now.

[Castout]

TLAM Strike . . . . I must have that Akula you hear me?! Must!!

Be eagerly waiting for LWAMI 3.11.

Ples put the download link in subsim here when it's up

[TLAM Strike]

China's new submarine.

Don't know what she is called yet...



The French Frigate Lafayette...

[Gerald]