Celestial Navigation Revisited - Page 12

BigWalleye · 12-19-13, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeromeHeretic

Lighthouses are common in navy map of course. With height over the sea level for triangulation of distance (not possible in SH3, because height can be measured only on locked object and is possibly lock only boat).
In reality are almanac of lighthouses, with specifications about lighting (lighthouses are flashing in different colors and patterns).
So in reality navigator is not marking lighthouses to the map. In reality they are allready printed on the map...

JH is correct. Any good nautical CHART (they're not MAPS!) would have all prewar navaids printed on it. Of course, that prewar data might not be accurate any more....

As for determining the height of an object other than a ship, the R/L sub crews used the graticle markings of the 'scope or UZO. That's what they're there for. According to Hitman, there never was a stadimeter in U-boats built during the war. If you use one of his "Hitman Optics" mods, you will quickly get used to estimating heights with the graticle. It works well enough to give good firing solutions, is quicker than the stadimeter, and doesn't require a positive ID of the target. AND, it's the way the prototypical U-boat crews did it.

areo16 · 12-20-13, 03:09 AM

I've attached a picture of my nav map in game. It shows lighthouses as large circles. Not sure if this is a mod or not.

JeromeHeretic · 12-20-13, 03:58 AM

Surely it's some mode. (And it's very ugly BTW)
Can you write here your mod list?
Particular design of this solution is realy horrible, but i can have a look how it's realized.

areo16 · 12-20-13, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeromeHeretic

Surely it's some mode. (And it's very ugly BTW)
Can you write here your mod list?
Particular design of this solution is realy horrible, but i can have a look how it's realized.

I like it. It's much better then an "X" on the map with no data. This shows information about the lighthouse, and it doesn't conflict with other mods using .map file.

I don't have a mods list. I manually installed all mods over 6 years of playing this game.

I'll let you know what the files are and upload them when I get some time.

JeromeHeretic · 12-25-13, 09:06 PM

Well, a bit of progress. I create groups of lighthouses in circle 1km and disable them exept one. Disabled all lighthouses from west coast of America.
Next i disabled all river lights, lights in big bays and deep firths. Number of lighthouses by this method was reduced to 10710. At morning will continue to do one lighthouse per port and sort for lighthouses, lightboats and buoys.
Result visible here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/lighthouses.html (be patient, table is realy huge)

mikey117us · 12-25-13, 11:43 PM

Starting in Autumn 1941 OberSteuermann ( Chief Quartermaster / Navigation Officer Not an Officer but could keep watch as one = to StabOberFeldwebel highest ranking enlisted man )began Navigation by Dead Reckoning (Gekoppelter Standort Koppelnavigation) for Test Purposes and comparing to Celestial Navigation (Astronomische Navigation) Sun and Moon Data for Accuracy (Morgenbesteck Mittagsbesteck Abendbesteck )then correcting ( Besteckunterschied ) . Eventually as Training Time was reduced for OberSteuerMann and the dawning of the Schnorkel Boats began Total Submerged Warfare Limited Celestial Navigation and gave rise to Elektra/Sonne Bearings ( Eigenpeilung ) when Radio could Receive well Other Radio Bearings, Soundings ( Behmlot and x-m-Linie ), and for the Inland Shore Campaign Pre-War Navigational Charts. The Following Excerpt is from the Unternehman Kriegstagebuch of OberLeutnant zur See Karl Jobst U-2326 a Type XXIII ( simply put they were unable on the 6th of May 1945 to receive Elektra/Sonne and the following day in heavy fog and mist surfaced their boat to figure out their position by using Nautical charts and visual bearings )

Place

Incidents
Day
Time
Weather

6.5.45 0000 Sq. AN 4561 SCHNORCHEL depth.
No reception of W/T routine.

0005 All-round listening, and battery charging by SCHNORCHEL.

0105 All-round listening.
Food eaten at A - 40.

0158 Battery charging by SCHNORCHEL.

0300 Battery charging concluded.

0305 No "Elecktra Sonne" picked up.

0317 At A - 30.

0400 Sq. AN 4555 A - 30.

0432 Dawn begins.

0800 Sq. AN 4549 A - 30.

1200 Sq. AN 4574 Day's run:
Wind: 1-2 Surfaced: -
Sea: 1 Submerged: 87.8 s.m.
Cloudy, C5 Total: 87.8 s.m.
Visibility 5 s.m.

1600 Sq. AN 4498 A - 30.

1759 Boat ventilated through SCHNORCHEL.

2000 Sq. AN 4723

2153 Twilight begins.

2246 Battery charged through SCHNORCHEL.

2348 All-round listening.

2352 All-round listening concluded, battery charged.

Place

Incidents
Day
Time
Weather

7.5.45 1600 Sq. AN 0123 Went to 30 m, and swept ((ablaufen)) in the
Wind: 0 direction of the bearing on course of 2800.
Sea: 0 - 1
Visibility: 6000 m.

1702 Boat touched bottom.

1716 Went to 195, headed for GIRDLE NESS, in order to obtain a fix.
Position calculated in AN 0126.
Bearings:
GIRDLE NESS = true
BANNER MILL = true
SOUTH BREAKWATER LIGHT = true
MIDDLE BUOY = true.
So The Pre-War Charts for the Coastal Shipping Lanes Off Scotland were still accurate and usable throughout the war.

JeromeHeretic · 01-01-14, 10:25 AM

Well, big progress. I:
- remove duplicities from data
- reduce value of lighthouses to number about 2000.
- sort all as lighthouses or lightboats
- Added some lighthouses in "hic sunt leones" area (a didn't have data for whole world as i seen, there was places, where i didn't see any lighthouse)
- removed all river lights, which are not useful for game
- removed all lighthouses in deep firths and bays
- remove all lighthouses from west coast of America - they are not usefull for game
- added one lighthouse in every port in map (in GWX world). This feature is very usefull, because even concrete piers of ports have their own lighthouses, this concrete piers respawn to game much later as lighthouse defined in Locations.cfg. When someone is using 16km, or 20km environment mod as me, can see this lighthouses from 20km distance, the pier lighthouses are seen when sub comes closer to port...
- disable some GWX specific locations, which are buggy and lighthouses are not rendered in game.
- modify slightly coordinates of almost all lighthouses to fit perfectly to SH3 world. (In table link to google maps shows original coordinates, but SH3 coordinates may be differ. For seeing of exact location in SH3 you must get SH3 lat and long and count like this: SH3coordinate/2000/60 - this gives you real coordinate)

I have done script, which generate Locations.cfg.
I have done script, which generate X marks in map file.
Rest work is to do script, which generate data for Camaign_SCR.mis file (Lightboats and buoys are defined in this file)

Original data file can be seen here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/lighthouses.html (i'm not using it anymore)
Reduced data file, which i use from now is visible here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/reduced.html

Now i go to do some test and observations with new Locations.cfg...

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12-20-13, 03:58 AM	#168
JeromeHeretic Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: N 50 4 E 14 25 Posts: 127 Downloads: 266 Uploads: 0	Surely it's some mode. (And it's very ugly BTW) Can you write here your mod list? Particular design of this solution is realy horrible, but i can have a look how it's realized.

12-25-13, 09:06 PM	#170
JeromeHeretic Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: N 50 4 E 14 25 Posts: 127 Downloads: 266 Uploads: 0	Well, a bit of progress. I create groups of lighthouses in circle 1km and disable them exept one. Disabled all lighthouses from west coast of America. Next i disabled all river lights, lights in big bays and deep firths. Number of lighthouses by this method was reduced to 10710. At morning will continue to do one lighthouse per port and sort for lighthouses, lightboats and buoys. Result visible here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/lighthouses.html (be patient, table is realy huge)

12-25-13, 11:43 PM	#171
mikey117us Engineer Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 211 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Starting in Autumn 1941 OberSteuermann ( Chief Quartermaster / Navigation Officer Not an Officer but could keep watch as one = to StabOberFeldwebel highest ranking enlisted man )began Navigation by Dead Reckoning (Gekoppelter Standort Koppelnavigation) for Test Purposes and comparing to Celestial Navigation (Astronomische Navigation) Sun and Moon Data for Accuracy (Morgenbesteck Mittagsbesteck Abendbesteck )then correcting ( Besteckunterschied ) . Eventually as Training Time was reduced for OberSteuerMann and the dawning of the Schnorkel Boats began Total Submerged Warfare Limited Celestial Navigation and gave rise to Elektra/Sonne Bearings ( Eigenpeilung ) when Radio could Receive well Other Radio Bearings, Soundings ( Behmlot and x-m-Linie ), and for the Inland Shore Campaign Pre-War Navigational Charts. The Following Excerpt is from the Unternehman Kriegstagebuch of OberLeutnant zur See Karl Jobst U-2326 a Type XXIII ( simply put they were unable on the 6th of May 1945 to receive Elektra/Sonne and the following day in heavy fog and mist surfaced their boat to figure out their position by using Nautical charts and visual bearings ) Place Incidents Day Time Weather 6.5.45 0000 Sq. AN 4561 SCHNORCHEL depth. No reception of W/T routine. 0005 All-round listening, and battery charging by SCHNORCHEL. 0105 All-round listening. Food eaten at A - 40. 0158 Battery charging by SCHNORCHEL. 0300 Battery charging concluded. 0305 No "Elecktra Sonne" picked up. 0317 At A - 30. 0400 Sq. AN 4555 A - 30. 0432 Dawn begins. 0800 Sq. AN 4549 A - 30. 1200 Sq. AN 4574 Day's run: Wind: 1-2 Surfaced: - Sea: 1 Submerged: 87.8 s.m. Cloudy, C5 Total: 87.8 s.m. Visibility 5 s.m. 1600 Sq. AN 4498 A - 30. 1759 Boat ventilated through SCHNORCHEL. 2000 Sq. AN 4723 2153 Twilight begins. 2246 Battery charged through SCHNORCHEL. 2348 All-round listening. 2352 All-round listening concluded, battery charged. Place Incidents Day Time Weather 7.5.45 1600 Sq. AN 0123 Went to 30 m, and swept ((ablaufen)) in the Wind: 0 direction of the bearing on course of 2800. Sea: 0 - 1 Visibility: 6000 m. 1702 Boat touched bottom. 1716 Went to 195, headed for GIRDLE NESS, in order to obtain a fix. Position calculated in AN 0126. Bearings: GIRDLE NESS = true BANNER MILL = true SOUTH BREAKWATER LIGHT = true MIDDLE BUOY = true. So The Pre-War Charts for the Coastal Shipping Lanes Off Scotland were still accurate and usable throughout the war.

01-01-14, 10:25 AM	#172
JeromeHeretic Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: N 50 4 E 14 25 Posts: 127 Downloads: 266 Uploads: 0	Well, big progress. I: - remove duplicities from data - reduce value of lighthouses to number about 2000. - sort all as lighthouses or lightboats - Added some lighthouses in "hic sunt leones" area (a didn't have data for whole world as i seen, there was places, where i didn't see any lighthouse) - removed all river lights, which are not useful for game - removed all lighthouses in deep firths and bays - remove all lighthouses from west coast of America - they are not usefull for game - added one lighthouse in every port in map (in GWX world). This feature is very usefull, because even concrete piers of ports have their own lighthouses, this concrete piers respawn to game much later as lighthouse defined in Locations.cfg. When someone is using 16km, or 20km environment mod as me, can see this lighthouses from 20km distance, the pier lighthouses are seen when sub comes closer to port... - disable some GWX specific locations, which are buggy and lighthouses are not rendered in game. - modify slightly coordinates of almost all lighthouses to fit perfectly to SH3 world. (In table link to google maps shows original coordinates, but SH3 coordinates may be differ. For seeing of exact location in SH3 you must get SH3 lat and long and count like this: SH3coordinate/2000/60 - this gives you real coordinate) I have done script, which generate Locations.cfg. I have done script, which generate X marks in map file. Rest work is to do script, which generate data for Camaign_SCR.mis file (Lightboats and buoys are defined in this file) Original data file can be seen here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/lighthouses.html (i'm not using it anymore) Reduced data file, which i use from now is visible here: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/reduced.html Now i go to do some test and observations with new Locations.cfg...