Twilight Zone Water revisited

Greystone · 01-07-19, 10:47 PM

Greystone · 01-07-19, 11:04 PM

Greystone here; I screwed up the original post, being my first time posting pictures, I forgot to add text before putting in the pictures. When I tried to edit it, there was no room for text, so here's what I intended to slip into the above post:

Some of you may recall a post I made awhile back, "Twilight Zone Water", where I described a problem I was having with the water graphics. By the end of the post, I thought the problem was solved, but, in fact, it never went away; I just didn't want to bring it up again until I figured out how to post pictures.
Here are some shots of what my ocean looks like.
The only way I can be sure of bringing the ocean back to what it should look like is to go back to port; when I start my next patrol, the ocean's back to normal. The degradation seems to be related to time compression, but it's also happened without it, although rarely. I can't make head or tails of what's causing it, which isn't all that surprising, given my lack of computing skills.
Also, the problem is there with a clean install; mods or not.
I'm running Win 7 64 bit
nVidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti
Have it installed under SH4
I don't experience any remotely similar graphics problem with other games.

If anyone has any ideas regarding the cause of the strange ocean graphics, let me know. Thanks..

merc4ulfate · 01-08-19, 10:05 AM

When ever asking a question it is best to list what if any (and if none please say so) MODs you are using so others may give you guidance as to a possible cause or fix. With no Mods listed many might give advice based on a stock version. Does this do the same thing with every mod you have used and which mods were they?

My first suggestion would then be ... Use Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate and see if it does it there as well. Do you have "Volumetric Fog" enable in your graphic settings within the game? This sometimes can cause issues but I am not knowledgeable enough to know if this scenario is one of them.

propbeanie · 01-08-19, 10:19 AM

Since it "re-sets" upon coming in from patrol, I'm wodering if you empty your Save folder between changes in mods, adding or removing the? Are you making separate Save files for each Save, or over-writing?

Greystone · 01-08-19, 06:50 PM

Sorry I didn't get back sooner; life throws problems at me & I gotta deal with them.
In case overheating may've contributed to the problem, I blew out any dust within the computer; there was very little however; I blow it out every couple months.

The problem occurs with a new install; ie: no mods, nothing but whatever the cd put on the computer.
The problem also occurs when I use mods; they are as follows:
Extra Ammo, Less Water Limber Holes, Stop the Shouting, & Webster's Better Sub Marker, Underwater Visibility, & Better Air Patrols; that's it.
But like I said, whether I use any of those mods or not, the problem occurs; the mods are not causing the problem.

I did the nVidia thing that Front Runner brought up in an attempt to deal with the time of day screwups, ie: going to the "Manage 3D settings" in the nVidia Control Panel and setting the maximum pre-rendered frames to 2 and the Vertical sync to Adaptive (half refresh rate). Along with this, I unchecked the Vertical Sync in the Options/graphics within the game. The only boxes I have checked in the graphics options are the "Ship Normal Maps", whatever that means, and "Texture Quality High". Again, the graphics problem was there before I made the changes in the nVidia Control Panel, as it is now, after making those changes.

A couple weeks ago, getting frustrated with the problem, I uninstalled the game and re-installed it, to no avail; problem still came up.

The problem seemed to occur when I used time compression (tc). It seemed to happen when I went to a higher tc, so I wound up staring at the nav map for well over 2 hours monitoring progress at 256 tc at ahead 2/3 from Midway to Japan, saving sunset and sunrise, & when the ocean turned to marhmallow haze I'd load the last save & try again. Then the ocean looked like crap again and finally I just gave up and thought screw it, I'll just live with a crummy ocean & jacked the tc up to 1024. Four or five hundred miles later I'd hit pause twice and switch to the standard view (period key) & what did I see? A perfect ocean... And then it would happen again. And then it wouldn't. So, if tc triggers the problem, it sure is fickle..

Win7, 64 bit
nVidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti with 2GB memory
CPU 3.2 Ghz
8GB ram
37GB free space left on the HD

merc4.. thanks for the feedback; no, I don't have volumetric fog enabled. As for using Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, whether the problem goes away or not, in my mind the trigger that causes the problem is still there. I should be able to solve the problem without implementing a megamod. But, like I said, thanks for the feedback..

propbeanie: you said "Since it "re-sets" upon coming in from patrol" no, it resets upon leaving the home port for the next patrol.
You said: "I'm wondering if you empty your Save folder between changes in mods, adding or removing the?" No I don't touch my save folder other than overwriting saves. I have "B4Quit", "B4Event". and "Backup", along with the saves the game automatically puts in there relating to arriving at home port and leaving home port. I delete those saves from 2 or 3 home port calls prior to the current one since, to me, they're irrelevant.

I'm thinking there's something in my computer that doesn't like the game or vice-versa. But, of course, I've no idea what it is.
I'm getting a little spaced out; I hope this'll give whoever something more to chew on. Until later...

stork100 · 01-08-19, 08:18 PM

Well, honestly I can't see anything wrong with the water. I may be completely off base here and just not seeing it right, but I think what you're seeing is just the foam effect that develops when the sea state gets rougher. That's why you don't notice it when starting a new patrol, because in the game the water's always calm then. And when you use time compression the wind speed can change and the next time you look outside you've got the foam happening again.

I ran some tests on my own installation of stock SH4 and the results look exactly the same as your screenshots. Maybe there's something wrong with my computer too, lol.

But seriously I think that's all it is. Like I said, I may be completely missing the point and apologies if that's the case. Looking at the stock environment on my own system again I have to say that in my opinion the appearance leaves a lot to be desired. I would recommend installing one of the excellent environment mods to enhance the appearance. I'm using the Real Environment mod and can highly recommend it. You might want to try it and see if it improves things for you. Here are the links (the second one is optional):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1532

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1017

KaleunMarco · 01-08-19, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greystone

Greystone here; I screwed up the original post, being my first time posting pictures, I forgot to add text before putting in the pictures. When I tried to edit it, there was no room for text, so here's what I intended to slip into the above post:

Some of you may recall a post I made awhile back, "Twilight Zone Water", where I described a problem I was having with the water graphics. By the end of the post, I thought the problem was solved, but, in fact, it never went away; I just didn't want to bring it up again until I figured out how to post pictures.
Here are some shots of what my ocean looks like.
The only way I can be sure of bringing the ocean back to what it should look like is to go back to port; when I start my next patrol, the ocean's back to normal. The degradation seems to be related to time compression, but it's also happened without it, although rarely. I can't make head or tails of what's causing it, which isn't all that surprising, given my lack of computing skills.
Also, the problem is there with a clean install; mods or not.
I'm running Win 7 64 bit
nVidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti
Have it installed under SH4
I don't experience any remotely similar graphics problem with other games.

If anyone has any ideas regarding the cause of the strange ocean graphics, let me know. Thanks..

don't know about causes but i can tell you that your screen shots look like you've been steaming in Loch Ness. that's what the surface looks like on Loch Ness.

merc4ulfate · 01-08-19, 08:55 PM

Bring this up with Rockin Robbins. I am still thinking this may be an overwrite issue with your saving over saved games. He would know more than I however.

propbeanie · 01-08-19, 10:19 PM

The ocean in the game will look like that sometimes Greystone, without much prodding, but not all the time. Besides your nVidia settings, there are also the "recommended" resolution settings in Windows, that should match the "native" resolution of your LCD display monitor. The Options in SH4 should also be set to that. With your card, you could tick all of the boxes in the Graphics Settings for the game, though I'd leave Windowed & Volumetric Fog clear, but you can also bump up some of the detail sliders on the left more to the right of their travel. The game does not have an automatic efficiency detector. Just be careful with some of the settings, or the sun will start shining through the ships, ocean and mountains as it rises and sets... Also, it is advisable, as merc4ulfate mentions, to not overwrite earlier Saves, but rather to make new Saves each time you make one.

Greystone · 01-09-19, 09:56 PM

Well, people, the "problem" has been solved.
I had an older pc running WinXP sitting in the corner and installed SH4 on it.
I ran the game and within minutes was treated with ocean graphics exactly like the ones at the beginning of this post.
The problem's not with my computer, but with having higher expectations regarding ocean graphics than what came with the game.
Sometimes the ocean looks great, but when it looks like the above pictures it looks terrible & I have to ask how in hell the developers let it get out the door like that.
By the way, I didn't do any saves or overwrite any; I just left Pearl & took off at 1024 tc.

stork100; Now I understand why you don't see anything wrong with the above pictures.

I'd like to thank all of you for patience & feedback through all this; the good news is that there's little chance you'll hear me moaning and groaning about it anymore, and it's what drove me to learn how to post pictures; thanks pb, for your reference to imgur awhile back.

KaleunMarco · 01-09-19, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greystone

Well, people, the "problem" has been solved.
I had an older pc running WinXP sitting in the corner and installed SH4 on it.
I ran the game and within minutes was treated with ocean graphics exactly like the ones at the beginning of this post.
The problem's not with my computer, but with having higher expectations regarding ocean graphics than what came with the game.
Sometimes the ocean looks great, but when it looks like the above pictures it looks terrible & I have to ask how in hell the developers let it get out the door like that.
By the way, I didn't do any saves or overwrite any; I just left Pearl & took off at 1024 tc.

stork100; Now I understand why you don't see anything wrong with the above pictures.

I'd like to thank all of you for patience & feedback through all this; the good news is that there's little chance you'll hear me moaning and groaning about it anymore, and it's what drove me to learn how to post pictures; thanks pb, for your reference to imgur awhile back.

hey, it's a game and it's supposed to fun....and now it's a learning experience.

:Kale un_Cheers:

merc4ulfate · 01-09-19, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greystone

Well, people, the "problem" has been solved.
I had an older pc running WinXP sitting in the corner and installed SH4 on it.
I ran the game and within minutes was treated with ocean graphics exactly like the ones at the beginning of this post.
The problem's not with my computer, but with having higher expectations regarding ocean graphics than what came with the game.
Sometimes the ocean looks great, but when it looks like the above pictures it looks terrible & I have to ask how in hell the developers let it get out the door like that.
By the way, I didn't do any saves or overwrite any; I just left Pearl & took off at 1024 tc.

stork100; Now I understand why you don't see anything wrong with the above pictures.

I'd like to thank all of you for patience & feedback through all this; the good news is that there's little chance you'll hear me moaning and groaning about it anymore, and it's what drove me to learn how to post pictures; thanks pb, for your reference to imgur awhile back.

Now load Fall of the Rising sun and see what you think. The water looks great with that MOD.

Greystone · 01-10-19, 12:10 AM

KaleunMarco: yes, I will give you that; the game's beginning to join me at the hip...

merc4ulfate: thanks for the suggestion. I took a look at some footage of it on YouTube & the water does look decent.
The one thing I'm looking for, the water quality, unfortunately comes at the price of dozens of things I'm not looking for. It's something I'll have to mull over; I'm still at the shallow end of the pool..

01-10-19, 02:01 AM

I do not quite agree with your surrender @Greystone.

addendum:
Have you ever tried the original driver of your graphics card - possibly helps a downgrade.

For me, the water looks like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleiente

merc4ulfate · 01-10-19, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greystone

KaleunMarco: yes, I will give you that; the game's beginning to join me at the hip...

merc4ulfate: thanks for the suggestion. I took a look at some footage of it on YouTube & the water does look decent.
The one thing I'm looking for, the water quality, unfortunately comes at the price of dozens of things I'm not looking for. It's something I'll have to mull over; I'm still at the shallow end of the pool..

Jump in the waters fine

01-07-19, 10:47 PM	#1
Greystone Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco area Posts: 155 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Twilight Zone Water revisited

01-07-19, 11:04 PM	#2
Greystone Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco area Posts: 155 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Greystone here; I screwed up the original post, being my first time posting pictures, I forgot to add text before putting in the pictures. When I tried to edit it, there was no room for text, so here's what I intended to slip into the above post: Some of you may recall a post I made awhile back, "Twilight Zone Water", where I described a problem I was having with the water graphics. By the end of the post, I thought the problem was solved, but, in fact, it never went away; I just didn't want to bring it up again until I figured out how to post pictures. Here are some shots of what my ocean looks like. The only way I can be sure of bringing the ocean back to what it should look like is to go back to port; when I start my next patrol, the ocean's back to normal. The degradation seems to be related to time compression, but it's also happened without it, although rarely. I can't make head or tails of what's causing it, which isn't all that surprising, given my lack of computing skills. Also, the problem is there with a clean install; mods or not. I'm running Win 7 64 bit nVidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti Have it installed under SH4 I don't experience any remotely similar graphics problem with other games. If anyone has any ideas regarding the cause of the strange ocean graphics, let me know. Thanks.. Last edited by Greystone; 01-07-19 at 11:47 PM.

01-08-19, 10:05 AM	#3
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	When ever asking a question it is best to list what if any (and if none please say so) MODs you are using so others may give you guidance as to a possible cause or fix. With no Mods listed many might give advice based on a stock version. Does this do the same thing with every mod you have used and which mods were they? My first suggestion would then be ... Use Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate and see if it does it there as well. Do you have "Volumetric Fog" enable in your graphic settings within the game? This sometimes can cause issues but I am not knowledgeable enough to know if this scenario is one of them. __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍

01-08-19, 10:19 AM	#4
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,738 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Since it "re-sets" upon coming in from patrol, I'm wodering if you empty your Save folder between changes in mods, adding or removing the? Are you making separate Save files for each Save, or over-writing? __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

01-08-19, 08:55 PM	#8
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	Bring this up with Rockin Robbins. I am still thinking this may be an overwrite issue with your saving over saved games. He would know more than I however. __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍

01-08-19, 06:50 PM	#5
Greystone Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco area Posts: 155 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Sorry I didn't get back sooner; life throws problems at me & I gotta deal with them. In case overheating may've contributed to the problem, I blew out any dust within the computer; there was very little however; I blow it out every couple months. The problem occurs with a new install; ie: no mods, nothing but whatever the cd put on the computer. The problem also occurs when I use mods; they are as follows: Extra Ammo, Less Water Limber Holes, Stop the Shouting, & Webster's Better Sub Marker, Underwater Visibility, & Better Air Patrols; that's it. But like I said, whether I use any of those mods or not, the problem occurs; the mods are not causing the problem. I did the nVidia thing that Front Runner brought up in an attempt to deal with the time of day screwups, ie: going to the "Manage 3D settings" in the nVidia Control Panel and setting the maximum pre-rendered frames to 2 and the Vertical sync to Adaptive (half refresh rate). Along with this, I unchecked the Vertical Sync in the Options/graphics within the game. The only boxes I have checked in the graphics options are the "Ship Normal Maps", whatever that means, and "Texture Quality High". Again, the graphics problem was there before I made the changes in the nVidia Control Panel, as it is now, after making those changes. A couple weeks ago, getting frustrated with the problem, I uninstalled the game and re-installed it, to no avail; problem still came up. The problem seemed to occur when I used time compression (tc). It seemed to happen when I went to a higher tc, so I wound up staring at the nav map for well over 2 hours monitoring progress at 256 tc at ahead 2/3 from Midway to Japan, saving sunset and sunrise, & when the ocean turned to marhmallow haze I'd load the last save & try again. Then the ocean looked like crap again and finally I just gave up and thought screw it, I'll just live with a crummy ocean & jacked the tc up to 1024. Four or five hundred miles later I'd hit pause twice and switch to the standard view (period key) & what did I see? A perfect ocean... And then it would happen again. And then it wouldn't. So, if tc triggers the problem, it sure is fickle.. Win7, 64 bit nVidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti with 2GB memory CPU 3.2 Ghz 8GB ram 37GB free space left on the HD merc4.. thanks for the feedback; no, I don't have volumetric fog enabled. As for using Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, whether the problem goes away or not, in my mind the trigger that causes the problem is still there. I should be able to solve the problem without implementing a megamod. But, like I said, thanks for the feedback.. propbeanie: you said "Since it "re-sets" upon coming in from patrol" no, it resets upon leaving the home port for the next patrol. You said: "I'm wondering if you empty your Save folder between changes in mods, adding or removing the?" No I don't touch my save folder other than overwriting saves. I have "B4Quit", "B4Event". and "Backup", along with the saves the game automatically puts in there relating to arriving at home port and leaving home port. I delete those saves from 2 or 3 home port calls prior to the current one since, to me, they're irrelevant. I'm thinking there's something in my computer that doesn't like the game or vice-versa. But, of course, I've no idea what it is. I'm getting a little spaced out; I hope this'll give whoever something more to chew on. Until later...

01-08-19, 08:18 PM	#6
stork100 Weps Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 352 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Well, honestly I can't see anything wrong with the water. I may be completely off base here and just not seeing it right, but I think what you're seeing is just the foam effect that develops when the sea state gets rougher. That's why you don't notice it when starting a new patrol, because in the game the water's always calm then. And when you use time compression the wind speed can change and the next time you look outside you've got the foam happening again. I ran some tests on my own installation of stock SH4 and the results look exactly the same as your screenshots. Maybe there's something wrong with my computer too, lol. But seriously I think that's all it is. Like I said, I may be completely missing the point and apologies if that's the case. Looking at the stock environment on my own system again I have to say that in my opinion the appearance leaves a lot to be desired. I would recommend installing one of the excellent environment mods to enhance the appearance. I'm using the Real Environment mod and can highly recommend it. You might want to try it and see if it improves things for you. Here are the links (the second one is optional): http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1532 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1017

01-08-19, 10:19 PM	#9
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,738 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	The ocean in the game will look like that sometimes Greystone, without much prodding, but not all the time. Besides your nVidia settings, there are also the "recommended" resolution settings in Windows, that should match the "native" resolution of your LCD display monitor. The Options in SH4 should also be set to that. With your card, you could tick all of the boxes in the Graphics Settings for the game, though I'd leave Windowed & Volumetric Fog clear, but you can also bump up some of the detail sliders on the left more to the right of their travel. The game does not have an automatic efficiency detector. Just be careful with some of the settings, or the sun will start shining through the ships, ocean and mountains as it rises and sets... Also, it is advisable, as merc4ulfate mentions, to not overwrite earlier Saves, but rather to make new Saves each time you make one. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

01-09-19, 09:56 PM	#10
Greystone Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco area Posts: 155 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Well, people, the "problem" has been solved. I had an older pc running WinXP sitting in the corner and installed SH4 on it. I ran the game and within minutes was treated with ocean graphics exactly like the ones at the beginning of this post. The problem's not with my computer, but with having higher expectations regarding ocean graphics than what came with the game. Sometimes the ocean looks great, but when it looks like the above pictures it looks terrible & I have to ask how in hell the developers let it get out the door like that. By the way, I didn't do any saves or overwrite any; I just left Pearl & took off at 1024 tc. stork100; Now I understand why you don't see anything wrong with the above pictures. I'd like to thank all of you for patience & feedback through all this; the good news is that there's little chance you'll hear me moaning and groaning about it anymore, and it's what drove me to learn how to post pictures; thanks pb, for your reference to imgur awhile back.

01-10-19, 12:10 AM	#13
Greystone Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco area Posts: 155 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	KaleunMarco: yes, I will give you that; the game's beginning to join me at the hip... merc4ulfate: thanks for the suggestion. I took a look at some footage of it on YouTube & the water does look decent. The one thing I'm looking for, the water quality, unfortunately comes at the price of dozens of things I'm not looking for. It's something I'll have to mull over; I'm still at the shallow end of the pool..