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Old 04-23-2019, 10:52 PM   #1
derstosstrupp
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Default Comprehensive Tutorial Redone for Wolfpack

Hi All,

I have retooled my tutorial in my signature specifically for Wolfpack (was previously geared toward SH3), marrying it with the Excel file in my signature (save a copy for yourself), which contains:

1. computing speed based on constant bearings and bearing changes over a minute
2. an attack disk
3. scope range based on target length and AOB
4. scope range based on target height
5. distance from track
6. computing AOB based on aspect ratio

Please give a read through if you'd like - hopefully this can help folks! Mileage may vary when viewing on a mobile device so please download to your PC.

To recap, this is what I understand historical procedures for data collection and tactics to have been (support referenced in the document) based on my research. Even the Excel file is straight from Kriegsmarine archives (kidding of course, but all calcs within are based on what slide rules and sine tables would achieve). WP is Alt+tab friendly, so have the file open and effortlessly go back and forth! With some tweaks for Wolfpack, this tutorial gets the job done!

Last edited by derstosstrupp; 04-23-2019 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:23 AM   #2
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Thank you so very much for all of your hard work and effort!

After briefly skimming through your revised document, would it be possible to expand upon some of the TDC and attack profiles that are or were used in the war?

The reason I ask is I was recently on a boat with someone who set the speed and range to 0 and calculated a lead angle and fired when the ship passed the lead angle and took down three ships at the same time using this method. They also used the gyro angle and bearing indicator to confirm a ‘good solution’. This level of mastery I admit I have not yet accomplished but I’m desperate to learn.

What’s of the SH3 TBC and attack tactics videos would you recommend considering you recommended them in your article? And are they so different from Wolfpack that they would be hard to adapt?
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:06 AM   #3
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Gutted wrote a Steam tutorial/guide about this Fast-90/Dick O'kane method you describe this person performing. Showing how easy it is to shoot at an entire convoy-row and hit almost simultaneously, as shooting a single target. I suggest you look into the Steam Workshop/Community guides. (maybe his steam-handle is slightly different as here)
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:11 AM   #4
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No need to look that far:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=240349
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:48 AM   #5
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Well, he didn't just described that, it was a walkthrough of all stages of the approach and attack. Here it is:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1695655869
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:00 AM   #6
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Thanks for the share
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Well, he didn't just described that, it was a walkthrough of all stages of the approach and attack. Here it is:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1695655869
Thatís a good guide although I donít agree with stopping submerged and waiting for the target to approach. That is a gamey tactic- stopping submerged would have been a first-class way to get on your LIís bad side fast and put the boat at risk.

The guide leans on plotting and fixed-wire methods for speed determination. Plotting at long ranges with the scope marks in degrees instead of mils leaves an unacceptably large margin of error Iíve found. Instead, plot bearings and get in front of him to determine course and then measure between bearings for speed, then use bearing change as a check. I like fixed-wire for speed but only if you are pointing at the target already.

I like the attack box concept in there. Overall that guide is well thought out though I think!
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:43 AM   #8
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Why is stopping so bad? You can hold your depth almost perfectly with the right amount in the trim negative tank.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Well, he didn't just described that, it was a walkthrough of all stages of the approach and attack. Here it is:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1695655869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphaba View Post
Why is stopping so bad? You can hold your depth almost perfectly with the right amount in the trim negative tank.
Probably true in Wolfpack but it just irks me because it wasnít historically done. I think it is tactically best to move to meet the target. You minimize the chance of them maneuvering and spoiling the attack and it allows you to maneuver with respect to escorts and more generally allows you to react dynamically to the changing situation.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine
As a matter of principle, every underwater attack should be so prepared and carried out that the launching of torpedoes can take place at the earliest possible moment. Favorable opportunities of attack may be lost by hesitating. If conditions allow, the submarine should therefore go to meet the enemy. It is wrong to keep ahead of the enemy and wait until he comes into range.
(https://maritime.org/doc/uboat/index.htm).
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphaba View Post
After briefly skimming through your revised document, would it be possible to expand upon some of the TDC and attack profiles that are or were used in the war?
Stand by on this, I’ve been making changes to the Excel file. I’ve added a tab that computes attack course and shoot bearing for angled shots using no TDC, which is consistent with the no-TDC angled shot procedures in the U-boat Commander’s Handbook (paragraphs 148-170). Beware though as the English translation of that handbook section is atrocious. I still need to update tutorial and instructions and test more.

As for standard profiles, ideal solution with TDC would have been (I’ll add to tutorial):
1. Range < 1 km
2. Impact angle as close to 90 as possible
3. Gyro angle as close to 0 as possible (to mitigate impact of parallax due to range errors especially at close range)

For no-TDC shots the handbook only addresses 45 deg and 90 deg angled shots, as well as the pure bow/stern straight shot, but it recommends a near-90 deg AOB at the shoot bearing regardless of method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphaba View Post
What’s of the SH3 TBC and attack tactics videos would you recommend considering you recommended them in your article? And are they so different from Wolfpack that they would be hard to adapt?
I made YouTube videos of constant bearing and bearing change methods a while back (search Ausdampfverfahren and Auswanderungsverfahren), But That was simply using those methods To compute Gyro angle, before I understood the utility of those methods for finding target speed, which is way more practical. I have installed open broadcaster, so my intent is to make videos in Wolfpack Preferably with a crew to demonstrate the methods in my tutorial once I figure out how to do it (the videos, not the method )

Last edited by derstosstrupp; 04-24-2019 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:52 PM   #12
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With.. all the methods that are taught, Only one or a few should be mastered, in my opinion!! and for me, the one that takes you from not using a lot of outside the scope resources Is the king. I am re-learning again about this method but using it for SH5 now. anything that draws from history will prevail for me, after all methodically as a sim - are we not trying to simulate that time and space in history?. The only drawback I have is I never was interested sines or cosines, but old salts can be re-tooled and.. Learn!!. As long as a method can give you a near correct answer, then I am in !! STUDY.... lol.... New things are learned

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...tDtzbpBcA/edit

Thanks
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
Gutted wrote a Steam tutorial/guide about this Fast-90/Dick O'kane method you describe this person performing. Showing how easy it is to shoot at an entire convoy-row and hit almost simultaneously, as shooting a single target. I suggest you look into the Steam Workshop/Community guides. (maybe his steam-handle is slightly different as here)
not me
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutted View Post
not me
Ok, I stand corrected. I can't remember how I got to the conviction that it was your Steam handle. And I see now in the comments to this guide your interaction with the author. [goes away to check the CO2 levels]
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derstosstrupp View Post
Stand by on this, Iíve been making changes to the Excel file. Iíve added a tab that computes attack course and shoot bearing for angled shots using no TDC, which is consistent with the no-TDC angled shot procedures in the U-boat Commanderís Handbook (paragraphs 148-170). Beware though as the English translation of that handbook section is atrocious. I still need to update tutorial and instructions and test more.

As for standard profiles, ideal solution with TDC would have been (Iíll add to tutorial):
1. Range < 1 km
2. Impact angle as close to 90 as possible
3. Gyro angle as close to 0 as possible (to mitigate impact of parallax due to range errors especially at close range)

For no-TDC shots the handbook only addresses 45 deg and 90 deg angled shots, as well as the pure bow/stern straight shot, but it recommends a near-90 deg AOB at the shoot bearing regardless of method.



I made YouTube videos of constant bearing and bearing change methods a while back (search Ausdampfverfahren and Auswanderungsverfahren), But That was simply using those methods To compute Gyro angle, before I understood the utility of those methods for finding target speed, which is way more practical. I have installed open broadcaster, so my intent is to make videos in Wolfpack Preferably with a crew to demonstrate the methods in my tutorial once I figure out how to do it (the videos, not the method )

Looking fwd to seeing this
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